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Subject: Does this game fit my current criteria? rss

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Mihael R
Croatia
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Hi everyone,

I'm looking for the perfect game for me.

It would have these characteristics:
- fast-paced (up to 60 mins). If a game is really good and special then time is no object (for ex. a deep and immersive RPG)
- ideally 2-6 players, but it can vary
- strategy or wargame with little luck (not much, but at least some luck involved, ie. not chess). RPG, too (although, something more tactical than Descent: Journeys in the Dark 2nd Ed)
- no bluffing in it at all (ie. not Android: Netrunner, Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation)
- not a family game. That is, a complex game for grown-ups
- you can get better with each play (ie. chess)
- not humorous (ie. not Bohnanza, Small World, Citadels), but fun, nontheless
- can be a card game or board game
- not co-op, but competitive (with or without teams)
- there exists some form of player interaction (ie. not Race for the Galaxy, Agricola or Puerto Rico = no player interaction there)
- being able to directly influence/fight an opponent (Descent, MTG, Summoner Wars)

Games I like:
- I really like Arkham Horror for the deep theme and quick and fun encounter resolving. I also like the large number of players it supports. If there only was non-coop game like it. It isn't as strategic and tactical, but I like the game's mechanics and the gameplay.
- Magic: The Gathering is also one of my favorite games. It's fast-paced, dynamic and has endless combos. Not much luck-involved, except the card shuffle. No dice, bluffing. Combat is quickly resolved...
- Another favorite is Summoner Wars.

Games that are popular on BGG that I don't like as much:
- Agricola, Puerto Rico and Race for the Galaxy for the lack of social interaction or the direct conflict. It feels like "multi solitaire" when playing these.
- Android: Netrunner for the bluffing part (otherwise, it could really be a candidate for the perfect game for me!)
- Descent: Journeys in the Dark 2nd Ed for being a pretty dumbed-down RPG (sorry for being blunt). It could be more complex and tactical=more fun in my eyes. Otherwise, it gets repetitive and boring.
- War of the Ring and Memoir '44 for too much luck-involved for my taste.

I never played this game, so how does it fit into my criteria? What doesn't fit, because maybe I could turn my blind eye to it?


Thanks!
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Pedro Silva
Portugal
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meehael wrote:

- fast-paced (up to 60 mins). If a game is really good and special then time is no object (for ex. a deep and immersive RPG)


It is reasonably fast. After both players are familiar with the game and combat resolution sequence, it can be played in under an hour.

Quote:
- ideally 2-6 players, but it can vary


Two players only.

Quote:
- strategy or wargame with little luck (not much, but at least some luck involved, ie. not chess). RPG, too (although, something more tactical than Descent: Journeys in the Dark 2nd Ed)


It is fairly strategic but mostly tactical, in my opinion.
Manoeuvre has dice for combat resolution so it can happen that you get bad rolls or magnificent blowouts. Usually you set up to maximize the damage you do, but sometimes the dice can be bad... Don't know if that is a problem as you like Arkham Horror and that is way too dicey for me.
I think the most competent player wins most of the times and it is rare for someone to just be so lucky as to win with bad plays but good rolls.

Quote:
- no bluffing in it at all (ie. not Android: Netrunner, Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation)


Not a factor here. You may sometimes position yourself to give the impression you are going for an attack and then do something else but it's not really a bluffing game.

Quote:
- not a family game. That is, a complex game for grown-ups


It is reasonably complex, though not a monster game rules-wise.

Quote:
- you can get better with each play (ie. chess)


This is true for many many games and this one is no exception.

Quote:
- not humorous (ie. not Bohnanza, Small World, Citadels), but fun, nontheless


You're ok here.

Quote:
- can be a card game or board game


It's kind of both, actually...

Quote:
- not co-op, but competitive (with or without teams)


All out war this one.

Quote:
- there exists some form of player interaction (ie. not Race for the Galaxy, Agricola or Puerto Rico = no player interaction there)


Direct confrontation.

Quote:
- being able to directly influence/fight an opponent (Descent, MTG, Summoner Wars)


And again, this is a wargame, so... Yep, you fight.

Having said all that, I don't know if it will be for you...
The theme is not really paramount here. Yes the armies play differently and the leaders are historical, etc but don't expect too much chrome. Illustrations are functional if not of artistic greatness and the components, though perfectly adequate and of good quality, aren't luxurious, so to speak.
I like it a lot and usually recommend it for someone looking for and introductory wargame that offers good variety, interisting tactical choices in a fairly short time.

Hope I helped...
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John R
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I would point out to the OP that although this is a two-player game, there are enough maps and armies in the base box to play two games at once, as long as you are willing to perhaps spring for some more dice and find a way to mimic some redoubts.
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Warren Smith
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I think the dice rolling in combat plus the card draws of this game would be too much luck for you. Also, there's some bluffing to make your opponent question the cards you're holding. That's too bad, because it's truly a phenomenal game. There's so much replayability in this super streamlined introductory wargame. It is really fun!!
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Max DuBoff
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The only games I can think of that fit your criteria are Chess and Go. The "little luck" part is the issue. Wargames have the potential to, to a Eurogamer, appear to have a lot of luck, when in fact they rely mostly on skill. Manoeuvre likely has just a tad more luck than the average wargame, but it relies more on skill, and the better player will win nine times out of ten (unless he has a much worse power). As a chess player, I can tell you that Manoeuvre feels more like chess than other wargames do (although I rate it lower than most CDWs).


All that being said, if you want an immersive multiplayer wargame experience, go for Here I Stand or Virgin Queen. Both have beautiful boards and well-done pieces and evoke the history. Be warned, though--these are LONG. But you seemed to value immersive games, so I figured I'd bring them up.
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fightcitymayor
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Reasons you may dislike it:
* Manoeuvre is primarily card-driven, so I'm not sure if that is too much luck for you or not.
* It doesn't take long to play, but it is not particularly fast-paced.
* It gets slammed occasionally by Grognards who see the box and the GMT name and think it's going to be an 8-hour strategic gruel-a-thon sort of game, which it is not. It is very introductory and fairly simple to learn, but if you go in expecting "wargame" you may be disappointed

Reasons you may like it:
* the limited grid makes it more like Summoner Wars or Chess than any grand strategic wargame
* different armies mean you can try out different strategies, because not all armies are adept at the same tactics, some are straight up better than others
* it does have an appealing "seriousness" that is often lacking in intro-level games of this sort, so if you need an "adult" sort of game then this has that quality
* the amount of time it takes to finish is low, so you rarely if ever get bogged down in a game that goes nowhere. This means you can play multiple games in a session and try out different armies

So Manoeuvre has somewhat of a unique sweet-spot: Gamers that want a game with a Napoleonic theme that isn't necessarily a typical Napoleonic wargame. Something basic and direct that doesn't take a long time to learn or to play, but still has all of the trappings of your typical wargame. It sounds like you might be in the target demographic.

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Oliver Paul
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Ideally, I don't think you'll find anything to fit your criteria. The "up to 60 minutes" thing kinda kills it. Like others before me have said, chess is the only thing I can think of. You mention little luck, but then you say you like games such as Summoner Wars and Arkham Horror, which include pretty hefty amounts of dice rolling, which is heavily luck-based.

I do think you might like Manoeuvre, since it bears some resemblance to Summoner Wars (units on the board, cards in your hand, dice combat), but I'd say that Manoeuvre is more serious, less fast-paced, and much more about positioning and "manoeuvring" than attacking. I like it a lot, at least.
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Max DuBoff
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Actually, Manoeuvre has card luck. If you draw all your leaders at the beginning, for example, you'll be in trouble at the end.
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Chee Kiam Lim
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Hi! You may want to consider Mage Wars Arena.

Mage Wars games can last pretty long and is mainly 2-player with little luck (mainly damage and effect rolls).

It is a relatively complex game but plays rather intuitively once you get the hang of it. And given that you like both MTG and Summoner Wars,u should really look at it!

cheers!

zhiqian.
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Gordon Stewart
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Like your criteria, of the C&C series, we find Ancients
better than Memoir; though maybe too much luck for you.

We stumbled upon two dice less games (really abstracts) you may like:
Finca and Uptown.
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