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Subject: Can we please stop calling this game interactive? rss

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Moe45673
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Look, I like the game a lot.... in fact, I own three deckbuilders: This, Friday, and Puzzle Strike because I feel that other deckbuilders don't really provide something I lack with these three (Star Realms provides a quick game I can teach to newbs and take anywhere in my jacket. Heck, Puzzle Strike does the first 2 as well; I mainly got Star Realms for the portability and the cheap price. And I'm glad I did)

But let's call a spade a spade. Aside from destroying bases, the game is not interactive. Imagine both of you start with 0 points. The winner is the first person to get 50 points. Every time you play a red circle, you take that many points. Is the game different?

Sure, some interactivity is present and would come in two ways: Destroying bases and the symbol that normally gives you authority points (meaning in this variant your opponent would lose that many). Is it multiplayer solitaire? No.... but the vast majority of the game does not involve the two symbols I just mentioned. Bases can be powerful and usually annoy your opponent but, while an important part of the game, they don't really provide an offensive decision by you, more of a defensive one.

In short, your authority points do NOTHING for you, other than keep you in the game. There is literally never a time where it's your turn and you can't do something because you have 10 points whereas you could if you had 50. Granted, you may want to buff up your defenses or what-have-you in that case..... but that's the same kind of interaction Dominion provides when the Province deck is getting low. I give this a rating of mostly solitaire with a nice twist of interaction with the bases.

Not trying to be belligerent or troll the fans of this game, I think it's an awesome game and it's about time someone put out a true blue DBG in a tuckbox. I'm trying to provoke a discussion about a topic that I feel somewhat interested in. That is that folks keep recommending this to others looking for an interactive DBG and at first glance, it appears to fulfill the criteria but I think ultimately those who want such a thing will be disappointed.

If this has been beaten to death before, I've missed it and will gladly turn things over to that thread if anyone feels like carrying on. I'd like to read such a thread if it exists!
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Adam Harvey
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Admittedly I've yet to see a thread, comment, post, whisper about interactivity in this game.

Starting to wonder the genesis of your ire.
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Gregg Saruwatari
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You choose who you attack. You choose who you make discard cards. I would hardly call that solitaire. You can form alliances, gang up on the leader or knock some someone out of the game that is low on authority.

But then again, I tend to see indirect interaction as meaningful interaction. For example, I disagree with those that call Race for the Galaxy solitaire since clearly the person who pays attention to their opponents tableau and predicts their opponents role selections will win every time.
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Moe45673
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I've mainly seen it in the Recommendations forum. Here are a couple posts
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15157382#15157382
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15359153#15359153

I like indirect interaction, don't get me wrong. I like SR. But if someone is looking for something interactive, they're probably not looking for this. I've only played the 2p version despite owning 2 copies. Need to try out with more than that soon!
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Michael Weber
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Moe45673 wrote:
I've mainly seen it in the Recommendations forum. Here are a couple posts
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15157382#15157382
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15359153#15359153

I like indirect interaction, don't get me wrong. I like SR. But if someone is looking for something interactive, they're probably not looking for this. I've only played the 2p version despite owning 2 copies. Need to try out with more than that soon!


To me there is interaction in this game, especially when compared to other deckbuilders. So I guess this is often called interactive becuse the majority of deckbuilders have a very solitaire feeling to them.
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Moe45673
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True, but I still think it's a disservice to those looking for an interactive deckbuilder.
 
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Ben Friedberg
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would it be safe to say that in any deck builder, interactivity comes from what you buy and not what you play? Playing cards is fairly automatic, but buying cards is reactive. Reacting to what your opponent does and making decisions based on that is pretty much what the game is right?
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Moe45673
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I wouldn't say that's different than other interactive games. Take 4X games, one of the prime criteria for choosing techs are what your opponent does.
 
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Henry Allen
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I feel like there is a lot of interaction in this game. I may buy (or trash) things from the trade row so you can't buy them. I may NOT buy things so you don't get any new choices to buy from. I may buy some extra attack power earlier than I would have because you bought a base and I don't want my vipers bouncing off of it while you reap benefits.

If you define interaction as being able to wreck opponents carefully built plans then no, it's not very interactive. But if you define it as your decisions and plays can (and should) be influenced by what your opponent is doing then it's got decent interaction. Especially compared to some other games in the genre.

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Peter Rabinowitz
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Moe45673 wrote:
Imagine both of you start with 0 points. The winner is the first person to get 50 points. Every time you play a red circle, you take that many points. Is the game different?


In a 2p game this is reasonable, but in a multiplayer game your analogy falls apart:

GrimThunderbrew wrote:
You choose who you attack. You choose who you make discard cards.


And even in a 2p game there is this:

GrimThunderbrew wrote:
the person who pays attention to their opponents tableau and predicts their opponents role selections will win every time.


Is it the most interactive game in existance? No. But is it multiplayer solitaire? No. Personally, I'd give it a bit more interactivity than Agricola.
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Chris Schenck
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Moe45673 wrote:
If this has been beaten to death before [...]

Nope, you're the first one to beat it to death.
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Jon Ben
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Moe45673 wrote:
Every time you play a red circle, you take that many points.


And every time I gain authority it makes the winning VP threshold for my opponent higher! Or perhaps my opponent must loose points. Seems interactive to me.
 
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Moe45673
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Jon Ben, you are correct. Still, in this instance, I think folks are mistaking the "attack your opponents' authority points" as being on the same level of interaction as, say, Puzzle Strike or Jambo.

Again, I've never played with 3+ players, so perhaps I am wrong there, but I feel the 2p game is not overly interactive (except for the bases). As someone said, slightly more interaction than Agricola (which I love, btw). Choice denial by taking a card someone needs is interaction but it's not what folks looking for interaction are thinking of when they ask for such a game!

I'm not trying to bash the game as I do think it's great. I'm simply asking that it stop being misrepresented. Here's a great case in point:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15462911#15462911
 
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Michael Weber
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Moe45673 wrote:


I'm not trying to bash the game as I do think it's great. I'm simply asking that it stop being misrepresented. Here's a great case in point:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15462911#15462911


May I ask to you to stop misinterpreting threads? I honestly do not see your case here.

Star Realms is a DECK BUILDER. In the thread the OP stated that he prefered/wanted a DECK BUILDER with more theme, more interactivity and cards. As far as deck builders go they all are thematically weak (because of their mechanism) and tend to be multiplayer solitaire. Now, having said that compared to other DECK BUILDERS Star Realms is rather rich in theme and has interactivity - and that is exactly what the OP of the named thread asked for.

NOBODY is calling Star Realms the most interactive game ever. Yet, you keep comparing it to non-deckbuilders like 4x games or Jambo. You are right, compared to these games Star Realms is not that interactive. But there is no misinterpretation in this thread if you look at what the OP was asking for UNLESS you think that the people here on BGG are not able to judge for themselves that deck builders mostly offer not that much interaction.
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Peter Rabinowitz
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I would say Puzzle Strike is the most interactive of the deckbuilders.
I would say Star Realms is the second most interactive.
I would say all other deckbuilders have almost ZERO interactivity.

I have not read anyone say Star Realms is a highly interactive game. I have read a number of people say that in the genre of deckbuilders Star Realms is refreshingly interactive.

Moe, I think you are just wrong in your complaint. I think no one here agrees with you. Sorry.
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Moe45673
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Fair enough.

I agree that most deckbuilders aren't the most interactive games but I think that SR's "whittle away your opponents' Authority Points" is any more interactive than Dominion's VPs. A game telling you that you're attacking does not mean that you actually are.

I hear Nightfall and Arctic Scavengers are interactive though my knowledge on both is minimal, btw
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Gregg Saruwatari
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I think to most people interactivity refers to the ability of multiple players to gang up on each other or sacrifice some of their progress to bring someone down. SR has that.
 
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Moe,

I couldn't agree with your original post more. Every other recommendation in that forum is stating how interactive this game is, and it's a joke.

I bought this game based off those recommendations because I love truly interactive games such as puzzle strike. Star realms, however, does not fit this category for me.

In fact, dominion is more interactive than this game, in my opinion, because I will often play with several attack cards such as militia or the thief.
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Steven Albano
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I think the game is interactive, but it wasn't as interactive as I hoped.

There is a lot of interactivity in buying the different cards off of trade row. I can easily deny you a card you want, but as what cost?

Also, when there are bases that aren't outposts, you do have to decide whether or not to kill them. That's interactive. You're have a strategical decision to make based off what an opponent is doing; that's interactive.

 
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R N
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"Interactive" in a game means responding to another player and that player responding to you. Do the actions I choose to take impact the choices that my opponent makes and vice versa? They definitely do;
1. I can deny choices to my opponent by buying them out of the trade row.
2. I can try to play a counter strategy to my opponent.
3. I can destroy non-outpost bases or not. Typically this decision relies strongly on what my opponent has been buying.
4. I can trash cards or not. This decision can depend on how soon the game will end, which is partially driven by my opponent.

This game is not terribly "tactical", although that isn't really the right word. Most of the choices in the game don't have a significant impact until the next time I go through the deck, or even later. The only exceptions that come to mind are attacking non-outpost bases and trashing my own bases.
 
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Gene Chiu
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KlydeFrog wrote:
I feel like there is a lot of interaction in this game. I may buy (or trash) things from the trade row so you can't buy them. I may NOT buy things so you don't get any new choices to buy from. I may buy some extra attack power earlier than I would have because you bought a base and I don't want my vipers bouncing off of it while you reap benefits.


I would say this would be the most interactive part of Star Realms. The interaction tends to be indirect for the most part.
 
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Gene Chiu
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kc2dpt wrote:
I would say Puzzle Strike is the most interactive of the deckbuilders.
I would say Star Realms is the second most interactive.
I would say all other deckbuilders have almost ZERO interactivity.

I have not read anyone say Star Realms is a highly interactive game. I have read a number of people say that in the genre of deckbuilders Star Realms is refreshingly interactive.

Moe, I think you are just wrong in your complaint. I think no one here agrees with you. Sorry.


Nightfall is the most interactive deck builder I have played. You attack with your minions and your opponent has to decide which if any to block and which minions to use to block. There are also many cards that directly affect your opponent and his cards.
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Moe45673
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I take back my position. After 4 games last night against the same dude, i felt that cards that force your opponent to discard a card are the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The game feels interactive and i'm a huge fan
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Ken Sinn
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Moe45673 wrote:
I take back my position. After 4 games last night against the same dude, i felt that cards that force your opponent to discard a card are the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The game feels interactive and i'm a huge fan


Great to hear the change in opinion. I was starting to get worried that this was a two-player solitaire game, but glad to hear it's unfounded. 2 more days until I get to play this game!
 
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Moe45673 wrote:
Look, I like the game a lot.... in fact, I own three deckbuilders: This, Friday, and Puzzle Strike


Deckbuilders are extremely popular. I own Dominion, DC, Marvel, Accession, Star Realms, Arctic Scavengers, Few Acres of Snow, and a few more I am forgetting surely. My point is this game is 'interactive' when compared to the majority of these other games. I suggest you play these games as well.
 
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