Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
43 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Myth» Forums » General

Subject: Myth is polarizing and this is why.... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Roger Reisinger
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
People who like the game currently seem to be DM types. Running, planning, and executing D&D style compaigns is something they enjoy. They also have the time and energy to devote to learning a game, house ruling tgeir own erranta, and generally enjoy researching everything pertaining to fixing s game or making it playable.

These people see no reason why someone like me would want a complete game with workable rules so I can play out of the box. You see, people like me... who I think would be the mainstream gamer, have jobs, businesses, families, and responsibilities. I get maybe 5 hours a month to enjoy a game with my friends. Im sorry that many of you dont understand the complaints of people like me. If I have to spend 18 hours ( 4 months of my absilable gaming time ) to learn a game I was expecting to enjoy out of the box.... ya, Im going to be dissapointed.

Sincerely,
Casual Gamer
27 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jef stuyck
Belgium
flag msg tools
Well I will tell you, I would love this game and I don't have much time either

And I understand your opinion and it is a very valid one, and you also understand that this game just won't be something for you, which I also respect.

BUT what i do NOT respect is people ( not talking about you ) bitching about the rulebook and not having time to do the research but HAVE time to BITCH about it sooooooo much? Seriously, to lazy to put the effort into it? go somewhere else and stop bitching.

And again, I am not talking about people that have valid complaints because the rulebook is bad. It is bad, we all know it. But seriously? Wasting HOURS of your life to bitch about it and refusing to do the research is NOT ok!
23 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Middleton
United States
Laramie
Wyoming
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've DMed D&D, Traveller, Warhammer Roleplay, Judge Dredd, Star Wars, etc etc for 25 plus years.


Myth is dull and frankly, your effort is better spent working with a better game system if adventure creation and monster creation is what you are interested in. Custom characters with decks would be a major pita.

Look into the Old-School Ren. of D&D at sites like this http://www.tenkarstavern.com/ and you will realize that Myth can never hold a candle to a real RPG.

Hell, Swords & Wizardry: Core Rules (3rd Edition) is a D&D clone that is compatible with 40 years of official, fan, and aftermaket material. The rules are super simple and free. That's thousands of monsters, ten thousand magic items, and hundreds of adventures.

If you want minis and boards, you can use any dungeon tiles you want and any minis you want.

I think that highly creative, DM types will quickly lose interest in how limited Myth really is.
17 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Abyss Walker
Portugal
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Well, I don't think that those are the only kind of gamers that will enjoy the game.

I see myself also as a casual mainstream gamer (by your definition). I am really interested by this game mostly for its campaign style.

But one think I do love when I buy a new game is to learn the rules! I really love spending maybe one or two hours learning it. Ok, from the reviews this game must have the worst rule book ever, but there is a lot of information available. There are videos, forums, FAQ's, walkthrough, more forums.... Maybe 18h is not the best estimate...

So, in my opinion, a person should give up on the game when there is so much information around... Or one can simply wait for the second edition

But well, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to start a big discussion. I don't even own the game...

Best regards to all.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jef stuyck
Belgium
flag msg tools
DegenerateElite wrote:
I've DMed D&D, Traveller, Warhammer Roleplay, Judge Dredd, Star Wars, etc etc for 25 plus years.


Myth is dull and frankly, your effort is better spent working with a better game system if adventure creation and monster creation is what you are interested in. Custom characters with decks would be a major pita.

Look into the Old-School Ren. of D&D at sites like this http://www.tenkarstavern.com/ and you will realize that Myth can never hold a candle to a real RPG.

Hell, Swords & Wizardry: Core Rules (3rd Edition) is a D&D clone that is compatible with 40 years of official, fan, and aftermaket material. The rules are super simple and free. That's thousands of monsters, ten thousand magic items, and hundreds of adventures.

If you want minis and boards, you can use any dungeon tiles you want and any minis you want.

I think that highly creative, DM types will quickly lose interest in how limited Myth really is.


Yea myth is quite limited but I think myth is interesting for the people that want to play rpg's but just don't have the time to spend on rpg's.
Not saying it is the best solution ( to me it is ) but it has a fair deal of freedom that it can satisfy that itch.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adrian Firth
United Kingdom
near mold
flintshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't really know what category I come under. I only started this hobby last year. I have a family, full time job and many commitments but I truly believe if you have interest in a game that researching is key. I've only come across a hand full of games played that have been nearly playable straight out the box and even then there's been times we've had to maybe house rule something or get an faq.
This game is my opinion is complex but fun and when learnt amazing. So I only started playing last year and what did I begin with?.......magic the gathering.......one of the most rules complex, correct timing games ever, with every card released always needing it's abilities explained on the mtg sites. So for me this game has been slightly challenging to learn but that's what I like........still I'm still trying to work out movement.......sounds strange........I understand that a hero's movement is taken into account for the full cycle and not up Untill the card is played.......but I'm wondering if say I had a hand full of cards, say one of them had yes in all 4 movement modifiers but first I decide to play a card and it's my intention that I will move normally at some point but for the time being I attack straight away as the target is adjacent could I then move normal (like I originally planned) and then play the 1st card I talked about that has yes under all movement types? Im thinking yes but I need to see a good explanation of it as I'm not very good at explaining things myself. (sorry I don't know the card names)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Reil
United States
Barre
Vermont
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lowecore wrote:
People who like the game currently seem to be DM types. Running, planning, and executing D&D style compaigns is something they enjoy. They also have the time and energy to devote to learning a game, house ruling tgeir own erranta, and generally enjoy researching everything pertaining to fixing s game or making it playable.


Not necessarily accurate. I've enjoyed my single play so far and want to play it more. I am not the person you described in your first sentence.

On the second sentence, you have a point, but I was able to learn the game well enough to play and teach it without spending inordinate amounts of time (though I will admit more than I have spent on games of similar weight).

Quote:
These people see no reason why someone like me would want a complete game with workable rules so I can play out of the box.


Anybody who's argued this is in the minority. Most of the game's "boosters" will admit that the rules as printed have problems.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Buitelaar
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
You see, people like me... who I think would be the mainstream gamer, have jobs, businesses, families, and responsibilities


While I do not agree on your opponion why this game might not be suitable for casual gamers, I can see why you would think that.
However I do not like what this sentence implies about non casual gamers.
Assuming you ment no offense I request you reconsider your wording here.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shakka
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have problems with one kind of people:

The guys who say they dont like Myth (because of whatever reason), but still come to these forums each day and flame about the game.

Unbelievable how much time some people have.

Shakka
17 
 Thumb up
1.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roland Bruno
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The dead horse is still dead.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Patching
United Kingdom
Newport, Wales
flag msg tools
badge
If you notice this notice you wil notice that this notice was not worth noticing
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a DM type and regularly run roleplaying games. I think they rock and generally kick the ass of any 'light roleplaying' board game.

However, I can see the point of board games that give you a light roleplay experience as they don't require the fairly large amount of work required by the DM pre game.

What I don't understand is the point of a board game that gives a light roleplay experience but still requires a load of work to be put in before playing.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damien
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lowecore wrote:
People who like the game currently seem to be DM types. Running, planning, and executing D&D style compaigns is something they enjoy. They also have the time and energy to devote to learning a game, house ruling tgeir own erranta, and generally enjoy researching everything pertaining to fixing s game or making it playable.

These people see no reason why someone like me would want a complete game with workable rules so I can play out of the box. You see, people like me... who I think would be the mainstream gamer, have jobs, businesses, families, and responsibilities. I get maybe 5 hours a month to enjoy a game with my friends. Im sorry that many of you dont understand the complaints of people like me. If I have to spend 18 hours ( 4 months of my absilable gaming time ) to learn a game I was expecting to enjoy out of the box.... ya, Im going to be dissapointed.

Sincerely,
Casual Gamer


I'd like to say that this was reserved for MYTH alone, however, I backed another game with a ruleset that was a mess and had the same attitude: "just look through the updated rulebook ( still a mess) and some threads and a FAQ to learn how to play. It's easy"

I have a limited amount of time, I want to maximize gaming and minimize trying to decipher rules.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Herring
United States
Pflugerville
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lowecore wrote:
People who like the game currently seem to be DM types. Running, planning, and executing D&D style compaigns is something they enjoy. They also have the time and energy to devote to learning a game, house ruling tgeir own erranta, and generally enjoy researching everything pertaining to fixing s game or making it playable.

These people see no reason why someone like me would want a complete game with workable rules so I can play out of the box. You see, people like me... who I think would be the mainstream gamer, have jobs, businesses, families, and responsibilities. I get maybe 5 hours a month to enjoy a game with my friends. Im sorry that many of you dont understand the complaints of people like me. If I have to spend 18 hours ( 4 months of my absilable gaming time ) to learn a game I was expecting to enjoy out of the box.... ya, Im going to be dissapointed.

Sincerely,
Casual Gamer


I have people with both RPG backgrounds and pure boardgame backgrounds in my group and so far, everyone has enjoyed Myth.

Beating the dead horse again, the main issue was the rules as they were printed. The game could not simply be opened, read, and played. It took a time investment many won't want to make.

I think the issue is more fundamental than RPG players being the main interest group for this game. I think it will be liked by anyone who can enjoy something that is not entirely locked in stone in regards to game flow (turns) and game structure (questing in Myth). Even Descent is very structured in approach.

Those who like rigid euro games or like a lot of structure (your turn, then my turn) will NOT like this game as there are too many choices left to the players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Larkin
United States
Canton
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Banemus wrote:
Well I will tell you, I would love this game and I don't have much time either

And I understand your opinion and it is a very valid one, and you also understand that this game just won't be something for you, which I also respect.

BUT what i do NOT respect is people ( not talking about you ) bitching about the rulebook and not having time to do the research but HAVE time to BITCH about it sooooooo much? Seriously, to lazy to put the effort into it? go somewhere else and stop bitching.

And again, I am not talking about people that have valid complaints because the rulebook is bad. It is bad, we all know it. But seriously? Wasting HOURS of your life to bitch about it and refusing to do the research is NOT ok!


I am not excusing the minority of the minority that complain for no reason or make issues out of small things, however, I'm sure that some of the people you are referring to are the same ones that put together all those documents you now have to read to play this game. Just because they complained along the way doesn't mean they didn't also work their asses off trying to fix things. I would argue those trying to fix things are the most likely to be the ones complaining because they have to dig and dig to get the answers. It's easy to read an FAQ and move on to the game. It's not easy to be the one finding the answers to so many mistakes/missing information. It is not a black and white issue.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Magic Pink
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Lowecore wrote:
People who like the game currently seem to be DM types. Running, planning, and executing D&D style compaigns is something they enjoy. They also have the time and energy to devote to learning a game, house ruling tgeir own erranta, and generally enjoy researching everything pertaining to fixing s game or making it playable.

These people see no reason why someone like me would want a complete game with workable rules so I can play out of the box. You see, people like me... who I think would be the mainstream gamer, have jobs, businesses, families, and responsibilities. I get maybe 5 hours a month to enjoy a game with my friends. Im sorry that many of you dont understand the complaints of people like me. If I have to spend 18 hours ( 4 months of my absilable gaming time ) to learn a game I was expecting to enjoy out of the box.... ya, Im going to be dissapointed.

Sincerely,
Casual Gamer


How many of these "people" have you actually met? Because so far this sounds like a load of bull.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jef stuyck
Belgium
flag msg tools
LordCyler wrote:
Banemus wrote:
Well I will tell you, I would love this game and I don't have much time either

And I understand your opinion and it is a very valid one, and you also understand that this game just won't be something for you, which I also respect.

BUT what i do NOT respect is people ( not talking about you ) bitching about the rulebook and not having time to do the research but HAVE time to BITCH about it sooooooo much? Seriously, to lazy to put the effort into it? go somewhere else and stop bitching.

And again, I am not talking about people that have valid complaints because the rulebook is bad. It is bad, we all know it. But seriously? Wasting HOURS of your life to bitch about it and refusing to do the research is NOT ok!


I am not excusing the minority of the minority that complain for no reason or make issues out of small things, however, I'm sure that some of the people you are referring to are the same ones that put together all those documents you now have to read to play this game. Just because they complained along the way doesn't mean they didn't also work their asses off trying to fix things. I would argue those trying to fix things are the most likely to be the ones complaining because they have to dig and dig to get the answers. It's easy to read an FAQ and move on to the game. It's not easy to be the one finding the answers to so many mistakes/missing information. It is not a black and white issue.



did you even read my post?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Pecorelli
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I feel like I'm on the World of Warcraft boards now.

Obligatory "I'm a DM, but have a job, family, & responsibilities and I understand where non-RPGers are coming from" post.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
joel siragher
United States
silver spring
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you guys have so many problems with it, then why was it such a playable success at gencon?

Still havent gotten an answer on that one...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damien
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
runescience wrote:
If you guys have so many problems with it, then why was it such a playable success at gencon?

Still havent gotten an answer on that one...


Were the game designers the ones running the demo?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The only thing I have to say is that regardless of the state of the rules, I don't Myth is the type of game that will work well with someone who has 5 hours to play a month. If you want to do that, it's fine, but this game is intended to be expanded and for your heroes to grow slowly over time. It's going to take you probably 2 years just to get to Journeyman status.

I would think traditional boardgames would be better suited to your time frame. If I were you, I would only play games I absolutely love, given so little time to game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raphael Pigulla
Germany
Feldkirchen
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Banemus wrote:
DegenerateElite wrote:
I think that highly creative, DM types will quickly lose interest in how limited Myth really is.


Yea myth is quite limited but I think myth is interesting for the people that want to play rpg's but just don't have the time to spend on rpg's.
Not saying it is the best solution ( to me it is ) but it has a fair deal of freedom that it can satisfy that itch.

This. A board game and an RPG are just two different things and one can't possibly be a complete substitute for the other. It's like saying "Go players will quickly lose interest in how limited Chess really is". That may or may not be true, it doesn't change the fact that there apparently is a considerable number of people that just enjoy playing chess.

I would agree that Myth will most likely be a disappointment if RPG'ing is what you're after. But honestly, that expectation was probably unreasonable to begin with.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
joel siragher
United States
silver spring
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lochmoigh wrote:
runescience wrote:
If you guys have so many problems with it, then why was it such a playable success at gencon?

Still havent gotten an answer on that one...


Were the game designers the ones running the demo?


yes, people seemed to love playing it at the table. So it cant be a bad game if every one loved it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hank B
United States
Arlington Heights
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Myth is polarizing for one reason- Kickstarter.

If this game were released at retail in its current state, the game would be buried under an avalanche of pissed off customers. 100% of people would deem this unacceptable. Can you imagine a customer with no knowledge of the rules issues bringing this game home to try and play?

Because the game was kickstarted- people were financially involved before the game even came out. Rather than feel buyers remorse, they will do anything to make it work, including making up rules, hours of research on BGG, and excusing the bad start of myth because "I'm already $150 deep, this game cannot be bad."
17 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Hancock-Parmer
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
History Professor; Interested in Co-op Dungeon Crawler Design
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Let me be a data point in the opposite direction.

I currently enjoy this game very much. I am not a "DM" type and I have never "run, planned, or executed" a D&D style campaign. I have played a lot of Descent, as both hero and overlord, but that's not quite the same thing, right?

I also get 5 hours a month to enjoy my game, if I am lucky. Working on my PhD, helping my wife with her PhD work, taking care of my family, etc. So, I just wanted to let you know that you might want to rethink your initial argument. You don't like Myth, but perhaps the reason other's do like Myth is not so easy to categorize or classify.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Belt
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hank34 wrote:
Myth is polarizing for one reason- Kickstarter.

If this game were released at retail in its current state, the game would be buried under an avalanche of pissed off customers. 100% of people would deem this unacceptable. Can you imagine a customer with no knowledge of the rules issues bringing this game home to try and play?

Because the game was kickstarted- people were financially involved before the game even came out. Rather than feel buyers remorse, they will do anything to make it work, including making up rules, hours of research on BGG, and excusing the bad start of myth because "I'm already $150 deep, this game cannot be bad."


I don't necessarily agree with this. While I do see that a lot of folks got smacked with the "I paid $100 for THIS!" initial anger, saying that "100% of people would deem this unacceptable" if this had been done at retail is wrong. Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set for example went direct retail, and had very polarizing posters at its beginnings as well.

PACG had a lot of issues because the rule book, while no where near as bad as Myth, was kind of a confusing and there are a lot of card misprints, typos, etc. Which for a 100% card driving game was a painful transition.

But PACG didn't do Kickstarter. A lot of people jumped on the bandwagon (much like this game) and then when they brought it home they either loved it or hated it and decided to be vocal about whichever side of the trench they picked.

Going retail or Kickstarter doesn't cause polarization. Maybe bandwagon jumping does...
5 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.