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Star Trek: Expeditions» Forums » General

Subject: I don't get why people think this game is too math-y rss

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Michele Esmanech
Italy
Milano
Milano
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Dystopian:the manhunt: a worker placement game of investigation, murder and mystery, set in the futuristic megapolis of DYSTOPIA
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I have played ST:E a couple of times, and have watched all the video playthroughs and ST:E really reminded me of another game… I'll let you make out what game it is:
- it is going VERY strong since it came out;
- it has a fantasy theme
- it has variable player powers
- it has the player flip a card in a location his character is in and such card has a test the character has to overcome
- tests are overcome by rolling dice adding +1 here, +2 there, with some -1, -2 at times
-there is a time mechanic

So, what game is it?

it's

I see these games being VERY similar (mechanics-wise), while PF is generating A LOT of hype (me included: I LOVE PF) ST:E is being claimed to be too math-y and too many people dislike it for this reason (and, BTW: I am one who likes ST:E).

Am I wrong in thinking these two games share so many mechanics, or do you think they are completely different?
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Kevin B. Smith
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I don't find the two games all that similar, although I can see your point.

In ST:E, you are adding up numbers *A LOT*. Once you move to a location and know your challenge, you add your base plus each of your crew plus each of your bonus chips plus each of your non-crew modifiers plus each of your skill modifiers plus bonus for other players with you. And then before you roll the dice you probably do exactly that same sequence of additions one to three times more, to make sure you got it right. Then after you roll, once more to get the final tally when you know which cards you needed to spend and which you didn't (and after adding on any exertion).

It is very simple "math", where basically you are just keeping a running total of 1's and 2's. But if you are averse to numbers, I can see it being annoying. Every turn, I am adding up a list of about 10 items, 3 or 4 times (double that if I am debating between 2 or 3 locations to move to, or planning another player's future move in order to decide my own). And even if you don't mind all the numbers, they do give the game more of an abstract feel than it would otherwise have. Contrast with Elder Sign, for example, where you are just matching symbols, with no math or numbers.

What I appreciate about ST:E, however is that all these modifiers are simple (+1 or +2) and they all come from the same places every time. You run through your cards and tokens, and you have your answer. Contrast with something like Conquest of Planet Earth: The Space Alien Game or Sentinels of the Multiverse, where you have many different KINDS of modifiers, and they come from many different places. Some are permanent; some are one-shot; some affect only THIS type of attack, or THAT target; some are + while others are -. Those types of games are far harder for me to deal with.

The game you mentioned in the spoiler sits in the middle. You don't tend to have to add up as many things as ST:E...typically just a few modifiers. But they do come from more varied places, and with more varied effects.

I rate both games an 8. I didn't expect to enjoy [spoiled game] much, but after 3 plays I am liking it far more than I expected to. I'm afraid it may become samey, but people say that about ST:E (which I have played 11 times so far and it's not stale yet).

If they had put out 3 or 5 any ST:E expansions with different missions, I think the game would be far more popular.
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Laurent Gitton
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LOTR JCE, Mage Knight... is also a game where you have to do the exercice...a lot of games are using math... RPG too ...I think best games are really hiding the math behind the theme...and i find ST Expeditions to be good at that, because of crew members, because of ships battle, because of mission, and branching story...but maybe when you have played it a lot, you only see the math because you already know each card. I think they should have print more scenarios for it in order to give it more replayability and to avoid the focus on math. ...but...what about, legendary, and all deckbuilders...these are games where you only look at what you can buy and what you can beat....ands still these are enjoying games...but of course they're often coming with a Lot of expansions in order to hide the math reality....so Wizkids....give us more cards and scenarios please !!!
 
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