Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
After reading and playing many games with the Earth destination, I've come the conclusion most of us have been doing it wrong.

A common complaint I've heard is that the Demetrius was hardly used. In my opinion, this is due to one singular reason: It has not yet been made clear who's role it is to be on Demetrius.

The President's role is, of course, to draw Quorom cards. On the first turn, we know what they do. Supporting Political leaders typically XO, with each and every political leader having leadership in their skillset with the exception being Romo Lampkin. If not XO'ing, political leaders usually act selfishly and draw skill cards.

The Admiral and Military leaders almost always XO, providing extra actions to the President, Pilots and to others as the needs of Galactica arise.

As for pilots, Daybreak provides much more flexibility to the role. In my opinion, a pilot's first priority is Demetrius. In most BSG games, a pilot's first turn is (usually) Hangar bay, followed by either moving to the Civ ships or playing a skill card. In Earth, a pilot should waste NO time and move to Demetrius' "Tactical Plot" location and scout missions. This puts a pilot in position for XOs from the Political and Military leaders.

Far too often, I see people ONLY going to Demetrius when there's seemingly nothing to do. This is not optimal. Ideally, you want someone on Demetrius to XO. You do not want to waste cards going back and forth from Demetrius.

So, what's with the change in strategy? Shouldn't pilots activate Hangar Bay on their first turn? In Daybreak, the Fleet starts with a singular Assault Raptor. This Assault Raptor grants pilots flexibility, in that it allows Pilots to stay on ship locations instead of jumping into the Hangar Bay postjump. I see far too many pilots jump into an Assault Raptor first turn, when its better use is to remain unmanned. Military Leaders and Support characters can control the Assault Raptor via the Command location. In essence, the Assault Raptor replaces the Pilot's original role: [Waiting in space. Bored.]

For more discussion on Assault Raptors' Strategy, go here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1154658/assault-raptors-you-...

In the Base Game of BSG, it was easy to know whether you trusted your pilot or not (are they out in space blowing stuff up, or not?). In Daybreak, you trust your pilot depending on whether they scout you a good location. After completing a mission, your pilot can help Galactica fight, or remain on Demetrius to help replenish the crew's skill cards via the Captain's cabin.

However, this strategy is only feasible if the fleet has a fleet of Assault Raptors as sentries around Galactica. If there are no Assault Raptors available, a pilot may have to return to space.

TL;DR A pilot's primary role is Demetrius. They should not waste their first turn jumping into a viper. The new Assault Raptors provide an ample amount of protection for sudden cylon attacks. A pilot can jump into a viper when necessary.

Note: When playing with Exodus' CFB, it is difficult to prioritize Demetrius. Exodus eats up nearly all of a pilot's actions in space--in my opinion, you should not combine Exodus with Earth.

More discussion to follow..
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I feel like not discussing the Earth + CFB combination is a major fault; even if you feel like they shouldn't be combined, a LOT of people use Earth + CFB. And yeah, it's HARD for humans.

In that game, my general preference is for a military leader or a non-President political leader (or failing that all, the president) to handle big D. This assumes at least 5 players, and hopefully someone else can field you XOs, your XOs can go to the CAG, or if you get 2 people on D, XO the other one (but with CFB you probably need to spend half your XOs as a group on the CAG!). (XOs to Main Batteries/Pegasus CIC if using Pegasus are also appropriate frequently, especially if the CAG is out of position.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
However, when someone doesn't jump on Demetrius ASAP, I take that to simply be a judgment call, as similar with Qcards, you can reap rewards, or strike out anyways.

In games where the cylon ships get out of control, having a manned viper with EMs, and Max Fire can be much more worth it.



CC = Captains Cabin

take the ideal 5p games....

no CFB:
It works well before the cylons come into play, but afterwards?
President at QChamber, pilot at Demetrius, and one person on Gally/Pegasus

At this point, giving the cylons cards is probably not as worth it, so abandon ye hope with CC (Captains Cabin)


with CFB:
pilot in space
president at QChamber
One to 2 people on Gally/Peggy
anybody else on Demetrius
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Star Fox
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Keep busy to keep happy.
badge
If you have fun, then even if you lose you still win!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've not really played with the Earth destination much. We usually just use Kobol.

Is it really worth 2 extra distance just to have the Demetrius?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Starfox4 wrote:
I've not really played with the Earth destination much. We usually just use Kobol.

Is it really worth 2 extra distance just to have the Demetrius?
Interesting philosophical question of sorts....
Unlike say, Pegasus where using Peggy also requires using the new crisis cards, skill cards, Treachery skill cards, Qcards, and Dcards... all of which either dilute the card decks and can bog humans more, there doesn't seem to be any other penalty with Demetrius.

Especially "awkward" when I've already seen one game where they get to 10 distance without using Demetrius at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
Especially "awkward" when I've already seen one game where they get to 10 distance without using Demetrius at all.

Yeah, happened to us more than once, while going to Kobol. (Edit: Note: Without Demetrius, naturally.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Star Fox
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Keep busy to keep happy.
badge
If you have fun, then even if you lose you still win!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
a1bert wrote:
Yeah, happened to us more than once, while going to Kobol.

Technically Demetrius isn't supposed to be used when going to Kobol.
The extra 2 distance is the price the humans pay to include it.
(But obviously it's your game, and you can houserule it to be whatever you like)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenneth H
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Starfox4 wrote:

Technically Demetrius isn't supposed to be used when going to Kobol.
The extra 2 distance is the price the humans pay to include it.
(But obviously it's your game, and you can houserule it to be whatever you like)


They're talking about games where, even though the fleet is traveling to Kobol, destinations work out that they traveled 10 distance anyway. Demetrius was not involved.

To answer your question, Demetrius is a pretty cool ship. Captain's Cabin is fabulous. Missions are hit and miss - sometimes, they are critical, sometimes unused or actively harmful. Worth 2 extra distance? I'm not sure. But Earth games are fun!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Missions are great for Cylon sabotage!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Another possibility, albeit at least a turn slower, a pro-human Cylon Leader can go over there.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Personally, I'd put the Pilot on Command and the Military Leader on Demetrius - it lets the Pilot strap on a Viper if they need to (or draw Maximum Firepower/Full Throttle/Run Interference/Best of the Best/Launch Reserves rather than Evasive Maneuvers/Combat Veteran) and resume their post post-Jump without spending additional skill cards, and plays to Apollo's strength and new-Helo's weakness.

In a choice between President's Office (Day) and Captain's Cabin, I'd go for the Cabin even post-Sleeper, and definitely pre-Sleeper with no evidence of Cylon activity. A Leadership card for every player outweighs 2 Politics cards for one human player in my book. So the hanger-on who might be on Colonial One for card drawing would be better placed on Demetrius.

Military Leaders have no ties to any particular location, while Pilots have a weak attachment to the Hangar Deck, and Support characters to ships that could become damaged.

Overall, Military Leaders have the least reason to be somewhere other than Demetrius, so they're the obvious candidates to take up station there.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenneth H
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We always play CFB, so the CAG is typically stationed on or around Galactica. The President is naturally stationed on Colonial One. Somebody is stationed on Command. Other than that, anybody can go to Demetrius, subject to where their character is typically good. Apollo wants to stay on Galactica for AVP. Pilot Helo wants to stay on Galactica to avoid his disadvantage. Chief wants to go places he can repair. Ellen wants to go where other people are for her advantage. Kat can't be "stationed" anywhere. Hoshi is pretty much always on Command. Lots of people have quirks like that.

Generally, our Demetrius agents are unemployed support characters, backup political leaders or pilots, or any military leaders.

Nobody trusts a Cylon Leader with missions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, let me try to think like we don't have a massive fleet out there because there's no CFB. So yeah, old-Apollo definitely wants to be on Galactica so he can quickly get out during an attack card, if that seems warranted. Starbuck really wants to be hanging out in her assault raptor anyway to get the guaranteed bonus action even after the jump cycle. Boomer... wait, people still play as boomer? Kat's going to have to move around anyway, and Gally has more choices, she could bounce from command to weapons or comms or even admiral's quarters if needed. Some pilots draw blue and may be useful in repairing stuff if there's nothing else to do.

But yes, I would definitely agree that keeping the pilot on Gally, just so that they can quickly get out into space if there is a clear need to do so, makes more sense than keeping the military leader there. The only rationale for not putting the military leader on Dem is that he is the character most likely to draw XOs (except maybe your pol leader) and since you really really want to XO -> Captain's Cabin as often as possible pre-sleeper, it makes some sense to send someone else there.

If your Pres isn't emotionally attached to playing with the Quorum, a strategy I need to start kicking our group out of trying, because you just waste so many actions looking for "good" quorum cards, you could easily send the pres over there too. The bonus of never having to worry about going to sickbay from damage is nice too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Flamethrower49 wrote:
Nobody trusts a Cylon Leader with missions.


I don't think I'd trust him running the Tactical Plot, but he can run the captain's cabin for us.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
a1bert wrote:
Missions are great for Cylon sabotage!
If you can get the right one.

25YGPB
is hard to sabotage unless you're a pilot, folks have Treachery, there's another pilot, or a combination of them. Otherwise everyone just plays all in anyways, and you have to beat 35 to 48 strength (yes, even when we NOT count special abilities of characters and text on skill cards). If you can fail it, it's nice, as not only are they not getting the 2 distance, but they lose a fuel, which is sort of like negative distance.

14YG is much easier to fail, although it's just A Better Machine treachery effect.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
a1bert wrote:
Missions are great for Cylon sabotage!
If you can get the right one.

You are not limited to sabotaging the skill check. Just see that players are low on cards and activate one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
a1bert wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
a1bert wrote:
Missions are great for Cylon sabotage!
If you can get the right one.

You are not limited to sabotaging the skill check. Just see that players are low on cards and activate one.
Well, if it goes after a useless resource, then it may not be that good. Also, if the group gets whipped up into a mission frenzy, they usually will have the skill cards to tackle any dangerous Mission.

It may even give them an avenue to harmlessly dump Treachery. OTOH, it does deny them a crisis card and jump icon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Sutherland
msg tools
mbmb
The answer is send as many people as you can to Demetrius. It's missions are very powerful. Killing the hub takes away Super Crisis ability. Taking out the Centenarian and Heavy Raiders is also great. Getting the Reb Base Star looks fantastic (We have yet to get to that card).

Once you find the mission you want and activate it, unless there is some crisis going on that needs you back, give people extra cards if nothing else to build up their hands since the mission is in effect a super crisis card.

Also having two missions with a total of 3 extra spaces is very nice addition.

My first question out the gate is who's going to Demetrius?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Star Fox
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Keep busy to keep happy.
badge
If you have fun, then even if you lose you still win!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WVjunk wrote:
Taking out the Centenarian and Heavy Raiders is also great.

I agree. It's very important to kill all of those filthy old aged pensioner cylons!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.