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Subject: Era-only Events rss

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Michael Ptak
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After we wrapped up OP6 in our local area I was kind of committed to giving the game a break for a while over frustrations with the meta. But my tournament organizer had an interesting idea that might make me consider sticking around: and that's using TOS-era only ships for the Tholian Web.

The idea might not fly in pure form (since players without any TOS ships can't compete), but the idea interests me. It means less of the typical power-house builds and making the most out of a much smaller draw of ships.

Even if Tholian Web doesn't kick off I'm totally interested in trying this in a custom event of some sort. Sure, it will exclude players who don't have the available ships from the competition, but the region's stated regular events are still happening. I have no interest in the Borg event at all.

In fact should this idea fly beyond this forum post, I can totally see myself running a "TMP-TOS era only" regular event category that focuses only on ships from the Enterprise-TOS-TMP range of vessels.

Has anyone else considered era-only play for events like these? I find the idea much more interesting than the vanilla competitions for organized play.
 
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D Conklin
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Norsehound wrote:

Has anyone else considered era-only play for events like these? I find the idea much more interesting than the vanilla competitions for organized play.


Yep, mentioned here... our TO is pushing for it and I am coming around to it.

 
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HMS Iron Duke
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I'd absolutely be up for a TOS-TMP era tournament. There are enough ships to make some interesting builds. I think the likely included ships could be

Enterprise
Reliant
Excelsior (if you are willing to go a couple movies in)
D7
K'Tinga
Gal'G'Thong

with the
D'Kyr and Enterprise-refit coming soon as well.

I think you'd see a number of players agitating for the Koraga and/or the B'Rel as well.
 
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Andrew Lepperd
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If you're going to do the film era it would be absolutely criminal not to allow the iconic Klingon Bird of Prey.

One way of doing things that I'm warming up to is to use the carrot rather than the stick. I am strongly considering using "Highest placing TOS-themed build" as the criteria for fellowship for the TOS events.
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Paul Romer
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alepperd wrote:
If you're going to do the film era it would be absolutely criminal not to allow the iconic Klingon Bird of Prey.

One way of doing things that I'm warming up to is to use the carrot rather than the stick. I am strongly considering using "Highest placing TOS-themed build" as the criteria for fellowship for the TOS events.


Agreed, except isn't the K'vort (Koraga) a newer model BoP from TNG era?
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Roy Stephens
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alepperd wrote:


One way of doing things that I'm warming up to is to use the carrot rather than the stick.


This. This. This.

I have already set the rules for Tholian Web for my events (and I am the TO Noresehound is referring to):

We will have extra prize ships so:

No Wave 4 at all.

1st and 2nd place get prize ships.
Highest placing (not first or second) TOS era-pure fleet gets a prize ship.
Highest placing (not first or second) Enterprise-TMP era pure fleet gets a prize ship.

Any extra prize ships will be randomly awarded to players who have not already won a prize ship in the event (if the only TOS pure fleet wins or places second, for example).

I will provide the players with a list of ships and upgrades that are era appropriate to make their build process easier.
 
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Michael Ptak
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LoneWolfPR wrote:

Agreed, except isn't the K'vort (Koraga) a newer model BoP from TNG era?


Technically this would only allow the Ch'Tang, as that is the smaller Br'el model of the...uh, model. But this would certainly allow Chang's Bird of Prey.

I'd certainly be more interested in Attack Wing if there were more future TOS events, or events that catered to the TOS-TMP era vessels. These episodes are nice but once they're gone it's competition for the Borg events and I'm not at all enthused about the Borg or that level of competitive play.

I was mentioning the possibility to Roy of running independent events using the same reward bricks to get the prize ships, or even the older Dominion-war era kits with TOS rules and theme to hand out the prize vessels. Wonder if WK would go for that.
 
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Stephen Thorpe
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When you say Era only are you including ships only or Upgrades and captains too.

For instance Khan. Could you use either Khan in a either fleet or would it have to be GenKhan in a TOS fleet and Reliant Khan in a TMP fleet.
 
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hockeyjedi wrote:

Highest placing (not first or second) TOS era-pure fleet gets a prize ship.
Highest placing (not first or second) Enterprise-TMP era pure fleet gets a prize ship.


So in this would the captains and upgrades also have to be era pure? If so, you're pretty much going to have to run mix faction ships as there just isn't enough captains and crew to outfit all the ships.

 
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Roy Stephens
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SteRT wrote:
When you say Era only are you including ships only or Upgrades and captains too.

For instance Khan. Could you use either Khan in a either fleet or would it have to be GenKhan in a TOS fleet and Reliant Khan in a TMP fleet.


That's how I'm ruling it.
 
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Justin Hare
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There's a place near me that it doing anything from TMP era or before. So for us it is:

No Dominion

Federation:
Equinox
Enterprise
Excelsior
Reliant

Romulan:
Praetus
Galgathong

Klingon:
Somraw
D7
K'tinga
B'rel class (I don't think Ch'tang will be allowed)
 
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Roy Stephens
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Church14 wrote:
There's a place near me that it doing anything from TMP era or before. So for us it is:

No Dominion

Federation:
Equinox
Enterprise
Excelsior
Reliant

Romulan:
Praetus
Galgathong

Klingon:
Somraw
D7
K'tinga
B'rel class (I don't think Ch'tang will be allowed)


Which episode was Equinox in?
 
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hockeyjedi wrote:

Which episode was Equinox in?


Equinox is from VOY so I'm not sure why it's being let in a TMP era or before event. Were they thinking of the Oberth class science vessel, from Star Trek III?
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Roy Stephens
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Skyguard wrote:
hockeyjedi wrote:

Which episode was Equinox in?


Equinox is from VOY so I'm not sure why it's being let in a TMP era or before event. Were they thinking of the Oberth class science vessel, from Star Trek III?


That was the point I was making.

The Oberth from ST3 was the Grissom...
 
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Michael Ptak
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Not sure if I should make a new thread for this but the subject is close enough.

I thought about a system that could reward players to stick with older ships similar to the Admiral's orders for fleet points. It's inspired by the list building system they've got in Wargame:AirLand battle where you could restrict your list to era and nationality for extra unit availability. Here, you'd get a discount for flying older and generally weaker ships against the TNG powerhouses.

Also, I reward faction pure by being able to take a 4-point tech upgrade for free on any ship regardless of tech slot, for that faction.



I'd need the support of a few players to test the system and see it if works, but it seemed like a good idea. I don't care much for the TNG era and the fleet lists I'd really have fun flying are the older craft.

I also added something to help native Gamma quadrant races, but I don't think it would work as well as I'd like with only the Kazon to select from.
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O B
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Sounds cool. I want to fly a TOS fleet for the Tholian Web!
 
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Roy Stephens
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Once I have the date set for the Tholian Web event at the Game Kastle stores in Santa Clara and Fremont California(depending on kit arrival and other events scheduled at the store), these are the rules we will be running with.

We will have 2 kits per store, so, there will be extra prize support. First and second place finishers in overall points (regardless of fleet composition) will get prize ships. Then, a ship will be awarded to the highest finishing (other than 1st or 2nd) Original Series era fleet and the highest finishing (other than 1st or 2nd) Enterprise through Movies 1-6 era fleet. Another ship will be randomly awarded to a player who hasn't already won a ship in the event. In the event that there are no qualifying era builds for those awards, those prize ships will also be randomly awarded amongst the non-prize winners.

Here are the build rules:

No ships or upgrades from Wave 4 are allowed in Tholian Web at all.

All Resources are legal for the Era builds, EXCEPT Federation Fighter Squadron and Hideki Fighter Squadron, as they are anachronistic for the non-TNG eras. The fighter squadrons are legal if the player is not flying an Era build.

Klingon D7 class ships will be considered dual Klingon AND Romulan Faction and do NOT trigger faction penalties for Klingons or Romulans, but you cannot mix Klingon and Romulan captains or upgrades on the same generic D7 ship (no Klingons and Romulans together on unnamed D7 ships).

Other than the above special D7 rule, faction mixing works as it always does and is allowed.

Cards legal for ORIGINAL SERIES ERA FEDERATION BUILDS
USS Enterprise/Constitution Class
James T. Kirk
Christopher Pike
Mr. Spock
Leonard McCoy
Nyota Uhura
Hikaru Sulu (crew)
Montgomery Scott
Pavel Chekov
Janice Rand
Kyle
Redshirt
Photon Torpedoes (cost 3)
Cloaking Device
Corbomite Maneuver
Cochrane Deceleration Maneuver

Cards legal for ENTERPRISE THROUGH MOVIES I-VI ERA FEDERATION BUILDS

All Original Series Era cards
plus
USS Reliant/Miranda Class
USS Excelsior/Excelsior Class
Hikaru Sulu (Captain)
Clark Tyrell
Styles
Lojur
Dimitri Valtane
Transwarp Drive
Feint
Disobey Orders
Cheat Death


Cards Legal for ORIGINAL SERIES ERA KLINGON BUILDS

IKS Gr'oth/D7 Class
Koloth
Krell
Korax
Klingon Boarding Party
Photon Torpedoes (cost 3)
Magnetic Pulse
Projected Stasis Field
Sabotage


Cards legal for ENTERPRISE THROUGH MOVIES I-VI ERA KLINGON BUILDS


All above Original Series Era cards
plus
IKS Somraw/Raptor Class
IKS Kronos One/K'Tinga Class
IKS Ch'Tang/B'Rel Class
Somraw Commander
Chang
Gorkon
Bu'Kah
Stex
Kerla
Concussive Charges
Tactical Sensors
Shockwave
Advanced Weapon System
Klingon Honor



Cards legal for ORIGNAL SERIES ERA ROMULAN BUILDS

IRW GaL Gath'Thong/Romulan Bird of Prey
Klingon Battlecruiser D7 Class (Unnamed only).
Romulan Commander
Centurion
Romulan Officer
Tactical Officer
Romulan Pilot
Plasma Torpedoes (both)
Nuclear Warhead
Massacre
Decoy
Double Back


Cards legal for ENTERPRISE THROUGH MOVIES I-VI ERA ROMULAN BUILDS

All above Original Series Era Cards
plus
IRW Praetus/Romulan Bird of Prey Class
Valdore (Captain)
Nuclear Missiles
Polarized Hull Plating
Cloaked Mines


Cards Legal for ORIGINAL SERIES ERA INDEPENDENT BUILDS

Khan Singh (skill 6 captain. GenCon promo. aka "GenKhan")
Cyrano Jones w/ Tribbles
Follower of Khan


Cards Legal for ENTERPRISE THROUGH MOVIES I-VI ERA INDEPENDENT BUILDS

All above Original Series Era Cards
plus
Khan Singh (skill 8 captain)
Joachim
Superior Intellect
I Stab At Thee...
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Really neat idea, but I have a few questions:

1a. If I use enterprise, a klingon D7 and a IRW GaL Gath'Thong in my fleet can I win for TOS era? I'm not 100% sure I follow your cross factions rules, does my captain/upgrades have to match my ship, but I can have muiltple factions ship, or can I only have 1 faction of ships but use any captain/upgrades?.

1b. Or am I over thinking it and there is only TOS, enterprise-TMP eras and I can use and ships, captains, and upgrades I want as long as they are only from that era.

2. If all other ships can cross faction why can't unname D7s? I get there is an issues as you're let them be faction Rom, but shouldn't I be able to jsut declare the D7 either rom or kligon and just pay the cross faction for the other side?

3.Why isn't cheat death allowed in a TOS build? It came with the TOS enterprise pack? Is it because its art is from TMPIII? If so you need to remove Cochrane Deceleration Maneuver as it's from TMPII
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Roy Stephens
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Skyguard wrote:
Really neat idea, but I have a few questions:

1a. If I use enterprise, a klingon D7 and a IRW GaL Gath'Thong in my fleet can I win for TOS era? I'm not 100% sure I follow your cross factions rules, does my captain/upgrades have to match my ship, but I can have muiltple factions ship, or can I only have 1 faction of ships but use any captain/upgrades?.



1b. Or am I over thinking it and there is only TOS, enterprise-TMP eras and I can use and ships, captains, and upgrades I want as long as they are only from that era.


1b. As there is a prize for best performing TOS build, and a prize for best performing Ent-TMP builds, that gives two options to build from. Neither are required to be FACTION pure, but rather, ERA pure.

Skyguard wrote:
2. If all other ships can cross faction why can't unname D7s? I get there is an issues as you're let them be faction Rom, but shouldn't I be able to jsut declare the D7 either rom or kligon and just pay the cross faction for the other side?


Technically, yes. But, I was trying to give the TOS Romulans a little boost for balance. If enough general consensus is that it is flawed, I will modify the rule. I am also tinkering with the idea of a fleet point bonus if building faction pure... like 110 points if building at a ship-pure level (All Fed Enterprise and all Romulan GGT, for example) and 120 points for faction pure fleets (All klingon ships and upgrades, no Fed or Romulan, for example).

Skyguard wrote:
3.Why isn't cheat death allowed in a TOS build? It came with the TOS enterprise pack? Is it because its art is from TMPIII? If so you need to remove Cochrane Deceleration Maneuver as it's from TMPII


Cheat Death isn't in TOS for 2 reasons. (1) The Cheat Death card is a literal moment in the game of turning death into a fighting chance to live, which was best shown in Star Trek III. Kirk 's tricks in the TV series were never as dramatic as sacrificing the Enterprise to save his crew. (2) It was to give some balance, as leaving it in TOS would have put more Elite Fed talents there than ENT-TMP. This way, players have to make a decision. Our meta has been very reliant on Cheat Death and forcing them to decide between TOS only and ENT-TMP appealed to me. Otherwise, i think there would be far too few TOS only builds.

The Cochrane Deceleration Maneuver was put in TOS era as it was referenced episode 3-16 "Whom Gods Destroy" as having been used by Capt. Kirk to defeat a Romulan vessel.

Same reason the cloaking device is legal for TOS builds; as one was installed and used on the TOS Enterprise in episode 3-04 "The Enterprise Incident".
 
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hockeyjedi wrote:
I am also tinkering with the idea of a fleet point bonus if building faction pure... like 110 points if building at a ship-pure level (All Fed Enterprise and all Romulan GGT, for example) and 120 points for faction pure fleets (All klingon ships and upgrades, no Fed or Romulan, for example).


A fleet point bonus for faction pure is going to overly help the fed I think as they have the most cards and ships to pick from. But I again it would be nice to see an faction match ship fleet. There must be a way to make is work without making it overly help the faction with the most cards. Maybe only have it for TOS era fleets?

Oh I think you should have positron beam in the TMP era as the was used there. Yes I know it's from a VOY ep but they went back to Tuvok on the excelsior :-)

P.S. I had figure out the cloaking in TOS idea, nice job on that. Now how to get the tech slot on the Ent... hmm I guess flagship is the only TOS way to do it.
 
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Roy Stephens
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Skyguard wrote:
hockeyjedi wrote:
I am also tinkering with the idea of a fleet point bonus if building faction pure... like 110 points if building at a ship-pure level (All Fed Enterprise and all Romulan GGT, for example) and 120 points for faction pure fleets (All klingon ships and upgrades, no Fed or Romulan, for example).


A fleet point bonus for faction pure is going to overly help the fed I think as they have the most cards and ships to pick from. But I again it would be nice to see an faction match ship fleet. There must be a way to make is work without making it overly help the faction with the most cards. Maybe only have it for TOS era fleets?

Oh I think you should have positron beam in the TMP era as the was used there. Yes I know it's from a VOY ep but they went back to Tuvok on the excelsior :-)

P.S. I had figure out the cloaking in TOS idea, nice job on that. Now how to get the tech slot on the Ent... hmm I guess flagship is the only TOS way to do it.


I really thought hard about the Positron Beam... I don't think i am going to put it in, though. Feds have enough already.

Yeah, flagship is the only way to get cloak in a pure TOS Federation build. Makes it really expensive, but, that makes sense, too. Look at all the trouble they went through in that episode to get it!
 
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Justin Hare
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Skyguard wrote:
hockeyjedi wrote:

Which episode was Equinox in?


Equinox is from VOY so I'm not sure why it's being let in a TMP era or before event. Were they thinking of the Oberth class science vessel, from Star Trek III?


My mistake. Given the stats I just assumed it was in ENT. The TO running that setup hadn't released the actual list of approved ships.
 
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Michael Ptak
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Meanwhile I just took the easy way out and restricted cards by expansion packs for the category system Roy is being a little specific with the cards, which is fine, but for proposed above play mode I kept things a little more general and a little specific in other ways, as long as you keep your expansion packs in mind.

 
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