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Subject: Tournament Rules 1.4 now available! rss

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Matt Dawkins
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Tournament Rules 1.4

I won't add too much commentary here, lest someone ninja me.

But running through briefly... it appears that Pure Swiss is recommended for non-premier tournaments with 32 or fewer players, new Championship Play rules are recommended for non-casual tournaments with 33+ players and required for all premier tournaments, and the old single-elimination match play rules are gone. The new Championship Play rule is a Top 8 or Top 16 cut double-elimination bracket with 35-minute rounds consisting of a single game where players play as a Corp or Runner; not both sides. This will be interesting.
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Captain Frisk
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Quote:

Randomization
Players can use dice or other external aids to randomize results,
provided the randomization does not impede the flow of the
game. Players cannot force other players to use external aids
when randomizing. A shuffle from the Corp and a subsequent
choice by the Runner is enough to fulfill the requirements of
randomness when accessing HQ.


Woohoo!

Randomization ring purchase at Pax was not wasted!
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Madd Cow
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Double elimination rules after top cut is great. Not sure how I feel about alternating corp/runner though. Can't wait to try these out and see how I feel after that.
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Fluff Da Sheep
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I was really hoping they'd put Strength of Schedule as the primary tiebreaker for Swiss. Weakest Side Wins is so utterly random, it basically holds very little value. It also makes come-from-behind victories impossible, which drains all excitement out of what should be the best match of the tournament.
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Scott Rubin
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You know. The whole playing corp OR runner thing is not great. It has issues. But it's still much better than the old elimination rules. It's also better than playing 3 games with the 3rd game being a coin toss. I also like that it will take less time. For now, I approve.

Also, hooray for explicit ruling on using randomizers like dice. Psi game time!
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David F
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MUCH better elimination rules. War of the Ring uses a similar format in its online tournaments (double elimination plus using 'less often' side) and it's done a great job in crowning the best players. Love the small carrot in the first round for players who did well in Swiss too (getting to choose which side).
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Chris Hinkes
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I assume that 6 to the right of 10 and 11 should be 12 (In the bracket chart)?

So this means that the loser of 9 gets a round to sit out, and the winner of 9 gets two rounds to sit out?
 
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Scott Rubin
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Zeromus wrote:
I assume that 6 to the right of 10 and 11 should be 12 (In the bracket chart)?

So this means that the loser of 9 gets a round to sit out, and the winner of 9 gets two rounds to sit out?
Yes, that 6 should be a 12.

Looking at it, I don't think anyone would sit out.

Round 1 - Matches 1, 2, 3 and 4 are played simultaneously
Round 2 - Matches 5, 6, 7, and 8 are played simultaneously
Round 3 - Matches 9, 10, and 11 are played simultaneously
Round 4 - Matches 12 and 13 are played simultaneously
Round 5+ - Matches 14+ can only involve the finalists.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Quote:

Randomization
Players can use dice or other external aids to randomize results,
provided the randomization does not impede the flow of the
game. Players cannot force other players to use external aids
when randomizing. A shuffle from the Corp and a subsequent
choice by the Runner is enough to fulfill the requirements of
randomness when accessing HQ.


Suck it, anti-diceists!
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Captain Frisk
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Zeromus wrote:
I assume that 6 to the right of 10 and 11 should be 12 (In the bracket chart)?

So this means that the loser of 9 gets a round to sit out, and the winner of 9 gets two rounds to sit out?


Looks like it - but presumably you would play matches - particularly in the loser's bracket "when ready" to keep things moving.
 
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Captain Frisk
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Apreche wrote:
Zeromus wrote:
I assume that 6 to the right of 10 and 11 should be 12 (In the bracket chart)?

So this means that the loser of 9 gets a round to sit out, and the winner of 9 gets two rounds to sit out?
Yes, that 6 should be a 12.

Looking at it, I don't think anyone would sit out.

Round 1 - Matches 1, 2, 3 and 4 are played simultaneously
Round 2 - Matches 5, 6, 7, and 8 are played simultaneously
Round 3 - Matches 9, 10, and 11 are played simultaneously
Round 4 - Matches 12 and 13 are played simultaneously
Round 5+ - Matches 14+ can only involve the finalists.


I think you're off here Scott -

Round 1- Matches 1,2,3,4 are going on
Round 2 - Matches 5,6,7,8 are going on
Round 3 - Matches 9,10,11 are happening (2 players have just been eliminated)
Round 4 - Match 12 is happening between W10 and W11. Players from 9 are sitting out decompressing.
Round 5 - Match 13 is happening. W9 is sitting out, L9 is playing W12
Round 6 - W9 is now playing W12 in game 13
Round 7 (if necessary)

This actually means that in the event that the winner's bracket is eliminated - that this structure is potentially longer than a straight elimination (which would have featured 6 hands)

I still prefer this - its much more exciting.
 
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Adam Perry
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Alexfrog wrote:
Quote:

Randomization
Players can use dice or other external aids to randomize results,
provided the randomization does not impede the flow of the
game. Players cannot force other players to use external aids
when randomizing. A shuffle from the Corp and a subsequent
choice by the Runner is enough to fulfill the requirements of
randomness when accessing HQ.


Suck it, anti-diceists!


roll the dice, go with the result, and i'll pick 0, otherwise you're disrupting the flow of the game
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Captain Frisk
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experimilk wrote:


roll the dice, go with the result, and i'll pick 0, otherwise you're disrupting the flow of the game


This strategy is dominated by rolling the dice but always picking 1.
 
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Richard Linnell
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
experimilk wrote:


roll the dice, go with the result, and i'll pick 0, otherwise you're disrupting the flow of the game


This strategy is dominated by rolling the dice but always picking 1.


This strategy is dominated by calling a TO over and showing that you are extraneously rolling dice to slow down play.
 
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Captain Frisk
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solidhavok wrote:

This strategy is dominated by calling a TO over and showing that you are extraneously rolling dice to slow down play.


I can't believe how contentious this subject is. Your argument would also preclude using dice to select what card to pull from your opponents hand because it might add a second for the dice to settle.

Additionally, you have no way of knowing if my dice roll is or is not extraneous.

Look at Chris's use of a randomization ring prior to R&D access around 27:00 in this video - he's made his selection well before Scott - who may or may not have been playing mind games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMs1RU4Pb1E&list=UU9gPptRMHH...

Every TO I've ever met would have no issues with any perceived slowing down of play here.
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Kyle James
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I personally don't like the addition of a time limit to top 8/16 matches. It gives incentive to slow players to actually play slow.

Also the tournament will move slower, especially with a 16 player double elim bracket. You now have to wait for everyone to finish to start the timer for the next round, etc where you could play as soon as your opponent's finished with no time limit.

I just don't see the point of it personally, unless they were having issues with single games lasting an hour +(which shouldn't be happening).

Everything else is a good change imo, although the 50 minute draft time limit seems short, sometimes games could drag on if players don't draft solid ways to close out games. Not every draft game is decided really early on by random 3 pointer accesses.
 
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Benjamin
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How does the final match work? Should the winner of the upper bracket enter the final game with some sort of advantage over the lower bracket player, since he was never defeated?

And is it less climatic now that we only see one side of each player (corp only or runner only) during the finals?
 
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Captain Frisk
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bewnt wrote:
How does the final match work? Should the winner of the upper bracket enter the final game with some sort of advantage over the lower bracket player, since he was never defeated?

And is it less climatic now that we only see one side of each player (corp only or runner only) during the finals?


in the final match the top player has a huge advantage over the lower player.... in that she only needs to win once, while the lower bracket player must win twice.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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bewnt wrote:
How does the final match work? Should the winner of the upper bracket enter the final game with some sort of advantage over the lower bracket player, since he was never defeated?

And is it less climatic now that we only see one side of each player (corp only or runner only) during the finals?


One presumably sees both if the player from the winner's bracket loses the first game.
 
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Richard Linnell
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
solidhavok wrote:

This strategy is dominated by calling a TO over and showing that you are extraneously rolling dice to slow down play.


I can't believe how contentious this subject is. Your argument would also preclude using dice to select what card to pull from your opponents hand because it might add a second for the dice to settle.

Additionally, you have no way of knowing if my dice roll is or is not extraneous.

Look at Chris's use of a randomization ring prior to R&D access around 27:00 in this video - he's made his selection well before Scott - who may or may not have been playing mind games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMs1RU4Pb1E&list=UU9gPptRMHH...

Every TO I've ever met would have no issues with any perceived slowing down of play here.


I've never actually played anyone who uses dice, and personally don't care, but if you intentionally add a step to the game that has zero impact, that should be a no-no. Also, adding props from outside the game to play a "mind game" (such as a die that you roll but don't use) is something that SHOULD be against the rules. Not because it will be abused, but because it CAN be abused.

Which brings up another question - are die rolls public knowledge?
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Josh Schaener
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is it just me or did they forget to add that you need to have opaque sleeves on draft cards?
 
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Captain Frisk
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etherial wrote:
bewnt wrote:
How does the final match work? Should the winner of the upper bracket enter the final game with some sort of advantage over the lower bracket player, since he was never defeated?

And is it less climatic now that we only see one side of each player (corp only or runner only) during the finals?


One presumably sees both if the player from the winner's bracket loses the first game.


It is theoretically possible based on the current rules for the winner bracket player to be forced to play the same side in both matches. (Imagine if in the top half, whoever played corp ALWAYS won), but in the bottom half its always the runner who wins)
 
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Andrew Keddie
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inactivemember wrote:
is it just me or did they forget to add that you need to have opaque sleeves on draft cards?


No, it's in there.

My mistake.
 
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Neil G
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inactivemember wrote:
is it just me or did they forget to add that you need to have opaque sleeves on draft cards?


Do you? since *all* your cards are print-on-demand style in draft, surely the 'looking different' problem is avoided.
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Brian H
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Vapo wrote:
inactivemember wrote:
is it just me or did they forget to add that you need to have opaque sleeves on draft cards?


Do you? since *all* your cards are print-on-demand style in draft, surely the 'looking different' problem is avoided.


I think he means, if you use draft cards outside of a draft, because I believe they are tourney-legal?
 
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