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Commands & Colors: Napoleonics» Forums » Rules

Subject: Battle Back against Multiple Units? rss

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Tom
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I am seeking rule clarification or confirmation about battle back procedures.

On a couple of occasions I have attacked a unit, in melée, with several infantry units of my own. My rule interpretation is that the single defender battles back against each unit before the next unit attacks it. Thus without forcing my opponent to play EVEN ONE CARD he sees one of his units make multiple attacks on several of my units in one turn. If the first of my units makes a terrible roll this can result in a mauling of several of my units.

Because I intuitively feel one unit cannot expend firepower on all its attackers as it would on just one, I wonder if I missed something in the rules.


 
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brian
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TomAquin wrote:
I am seeking rule clarification or confirmation about battle back procedures.

On a couple of occasions I have attacked a unit, in melée, with several infantry units of my own. My rule interpretation is that the single defender battles back against each unit before the next unit attacks it. Thus without forcing my opponent to play EVEN ONE CARD he sees one of his units make multiple attacks on several of my units in one turn. If the first of my units makes a terrible roll this can result in a mauling of several of my units.

Because I intuitively feel one unit cannot expend firepower on all its attackers as it would on just one, I wonder if I missed something in the rules.



I think you have it correct. However, to be sure, one unit attacking does not mean the defending unit gets to automatically attack each of your units that may be attacking.

He reacts to each separate attack. So if it isn't going well for you, quit attacking that same unit....
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mark selleck
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You played it right. If 3 French infantry units attacked 1 British infantry unit in melee then the British unit would get to battle back each French unit after each one battles. Remember this is in melee so hand to hand fighting (not firepower) So if your units are mixed up with the enemy there is a good chance the attacker will take causalities as well. This is where combine arms can become important.

If you have a bad roll in melee before the battle back it just represents your troops not carrying it out effectively or the defenders meeting it very well.
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Jeff Kayati
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TomAquin wrote:
I am seeking rule clarification or confirmation about battle back procedures.

On a couple of occasions I have attacked a unit, in melée, with several infantry units of my own. My rule interpretation is that the single defender battles back against each unit before the next unit attacks it. Thus without forcing my opponent to play EVEN ONE CARD he sees one of his units make multiple attacks on several of my units in one turn. If the first of my units makes a terrible roll this can result in a mauling of several of my units.

Because I intuitively feel one unit cannot expend firepower on all its attackers as it would on just one, I wonder if I missed something in the rules.



I bolded the part where you got it wrong. Each attack is resolved individually. If the first unit attacks and doesn't eliminate or cause the defender to retreat, the defender may battle back against the one attacking unit. You may then attack with another unit.

So, to be clear, the battle back is only against the unit that attacked by actually rolling dice against it.
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Thom Brennan
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I'd agree with what's been said before, and add this to maybe make it clearer.

Each unit's combat is really a separate action and is fought to its conclusion before you go to the next unit's combat. That includes the initial attack, forming square, battle back, cavalry breakthrough, etc.

So, as an example, three units are attacking one in melee combat. Attacking unit 1 rolls its combat dice. If the Defending unit is still standing, it battles back after it takes its losses. After those results are executed, it's Attacker 2's time to attack. Assuming that the Defender is still around, it battles back against Attacker 2, again after taking any additional losses from Attacker 2's roll. Then on to Attacker 3.

The reality is that you're probably not going to still be standing for the third melee attack, unless you're very lucky.
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Martin S
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Grondeaux wrote:

Each unit's combat is really a separate action and is fought to its conclusion before you go to the next unit's combat. That includes the initial attack, forming square, battle back, cavalry breakthrough, etc.


Correct. And this came up in a post on ccnapoleonics.net where a retreating Inf unit can form square after an initial Cav Close Combat but before the second breakthrough Close Combat.

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/index.php?option=com_kunena&vie...
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Guillaume Gleize
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And if you imagine the simplified situation of 3 INF units with 4 blocks each attacking a single one with 4 blocks and with all dice scoring at 50%:

First attack: The defendeur will stay with 2 blocks in average
First battle-back with 2 dice: the attacker will loose 1 block

Second attack: The defendeur will average die ... if not and 1 block left:
Second battle-back with 1 die: the 2d attacker will loose 0,5 block

Third attack: A massacre!

...

So I think the rule is not so unfair with the multiple attackers!

And in the case of a single unit resisting against 3 with the help of luck or some hill or woods: Just remember the 20th of Maine in Gettysburg and just reward them as heroes!

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Frédéric Mariusse
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Saint Romain de Lerps
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Maybe I understand incorrectly, but here an excerpt from the 2012 rules

Defending Unit’s Battle Back
In a melee combat, the defending enemy unit may Battle Back
against the attacking unit if one or more of the defending unit’s
blocks survived the melee combat attack and the defending unit did
not retreat from its hex. The attacking player’s unit, that conducted
the initial attack
, is now considered in a defending posture.


Does the "initial attack" refer to the first attack from all the attacks done by the attacker' several units (I understand that way, and as a consequence for me there is only one battleback, on the first attacking unit); or as your replies imply, the "initial attack" is a wording to distinguish the attack from the battle back ?

I hope my english is correct enough to express my quibble.
 
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brian
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atavachron wrote:
the "initial attack" is a wording to distinguish the attack from the battle back ?

This. All melee combats have the potential for a battle back. The term "initial attack" here is making a distinction between the original attack performed by the attacker and the battle back performed by the defender.
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Frédéric Mariusse
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Thank you Brian for your quick and precise answer.
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