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Subject: First play just now - I'm not impressed rss

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Kārlis Jēriņš
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So, after having owned Zpocalypse for over 10 months, I just played it for the first time and, as the title says, I'm not impressed.

I'm not a fan of zombies, which may have something to do with it. I know that they're an in thing in America and probably elsewhere as well, but personally I don't get it. Back when I backed the kickstarter, it was simple curiosity - I wanted to see what the zombie theme is all about.

My first disappointment is the abysmal rulebook - now, I haven't seen all rulebooks in existence yet, but I've yet to see a worse one. I enjoyed the overall informal style of it, but it was just very, very unclear on a lot of things, or concealed them well.

Then, the player boards. They're really not fun to use, with those low quality dials and all. And a dial on a dial was really not a bright idea. Look to some of FFG's games for how a dial should be made.

And finally, the rules themselves and the overall gameplay. A source of a lot of confusion and questions.

1) Daily goals. Are they supposed to be open or hidden? If hidden, when do you score them?
2) Zombie and survivor movement - can you move diagonally, or only orthogonally?
3) Attacking - can you attack diagonally, or only orthogonally?
4) Attacking - does each survivor attack separately or do they attack all at once? And can they target different squares? (if there's a zombie to the north, to the south and to the west, can I get them all with a single attack action, provided I roll enough successes?)
5) Attacking - how do the red outlines of objects (I assume them to indicate solid barriers or something; example being the remains of the staircase in the hotel lobby right above the bunker entrance) affect attacks? If I'm standing on the bunker entrance spot, with the staircase to the left, and there are zombies to the south and to the southwest, and I hit the south one with a ranged attack, can I kill the southwest one instead?
6) Zombie attacks - when a double zombie is attacking you, how many successes do you need to hold it back, if you even can?
7) Zombie movement - is it possible for more than two zombies (one double zombie) be in a square? I wouldn't be asking this, but some weapons (grenades, I believe) say to destroy all zombies in the target square.

And I'm pretty sure I'll have more questions tomorrow. But now I'm sleepy, and this is the most questioning I'm capable of right now.
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Julie Ahern

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TheNameWasTaken wrote:

My first disappointment is the abysmal rulebook - now, I haven't seen all rulebooks in existence yet, but I've yet to see a worse one. I enjoyed the overall informal style of it, but it was just very, very unclear on a lot of things, or concealed them well.
We heard this a lot. The revised rule book is coming out soon. As in we plan on sending our revision out within days to have everyone look and find NEW wrong things with it, then revise one more time, then publish. It will be available as a PDF and more after that.
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David Lockwood
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The game is awesome. Much like Myth. The rulebook was a little hard to follow, but if you can get more people to the table for it again give it another try. You shouldn't have to read faqs and online questions to play but like Myth we had to. Once you wrap your head around it. It is tons of fun!

However please note this is just our opinion. There are plenty of "top" board games I've played and walked away with a "meh" feeling. Different strokes for different folks.
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Julie Ahern

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TheNameWasTaken wrote:


1) Daily goals. Are they supposed to be open or hidden? If hidden, when do you score them?
2) Zombie and survivor movement - can you move diagonally, or only orthogonally?
3) Attacking - can you attack diagonally, or only orthogonally?
4) Attacking - does each survivor attack separately or do they attack all at once? And can they target different squares? (if there's a zombie to the north, to the south and to the west, can I get them all with a single attack action, provided I roll enough successes?)
5) Attacking - how do the red outlines of objects (I assume them to indicate solid barriers or something; example being the remains of the staircase in the hotel lobby right above the bunker entrance) affect attacks? If I'm standing on the bunker entrance spot, with the staircase to the left, and there are zombies to the south and to the southwest, and I hit the south one with a ranged attack, can I kill the southwest one instead?
6) Zombie attacks - when a double zombie is attacking you, how many successes do you need to hold it back, if you even can?
7) Zombie movement - is it possible for more than two zombies (one double zombie) be in a square? I wouldn't be asking this, but some weapons (grenades, I believe) say to destroy all zombies in the target square.

1. Keep them secret. Score for VP happens at the end of the Day (when combat is over) unless otherwise specified on the card.
2. Both movement at attack can be straight or on the diagonal with no penalty to movement as long as there isn't any red from a wall, or other impediment in your way. Measure fromc center square to center square and if there's red, you cannot move or attack. Neither can the zombies.
3. see above
4. you attack as a Squad. to that end you may attack any zombies adjacent to you, however if they are at a range of 2 or higher the attack must be focused in one direction.
5. red blocks line of sight, center square to center square. Unless you are on a lookout, you cannot see them to attack, nor they you.
6. You need 2 successes to hold back both zombies.
7. only 2 zombies per square

Hope this helped!

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Julie Ahern

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TheNameWasTaken wrote:

Then, the player boards. They're really not fun to use, with those low quality dials and all. And a dial on a dial was really not a bright idea. Look to some of FFG's games for how a dial should be made.


https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zpoc-board-lite/id614715896?...
or
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.greenbrier...

OK, back to work for me!
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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Thanks for your answers, Julie! They helped, and I'll take them into account if/when I play next. The smartphone apps I'll probably pass on, because not all of my potential players own smartphones, and it'd be kind of weird if I didn't have a physical board while they did.
 
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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And I just found the flowchart supplement, which is honestly dozens of miles better than the rulebook. That I might actually print out and use instead of the rulebook!
And it clarifies other things - I'd missed the fact that all adjacent zombies attack at the same time and you roll defense only once against them all. Definitely going to have to try again!
 
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Magic Pink
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I'm always amazed people think this is the worst rulebook ever. The information could have been grouped better but it wasn't long enough for that to really be that big of an issue. I have WORLDS worse rulebooks in some games. 12 Realms, Myth, etc...
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Julie Ahern

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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
And I just found the flowchart supplement, which is honestly dozens of miles better than the rulebook. That I might actually print out and use instead of the rulebook!
And it clarifies other things - I'd missed the fact that all adjacent zombies attack at the same time and you roll defense only once against them all. Definitely going to have to try again!


Let me know how round 2 goes. Glad you found the flowchart!
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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Julie, could you help me figure out one more thing from my first game?

The Princess (the dog Survivor) card says "does not count as a survivor". What exactly does this mean? I drew her as one of my starting survivors; should I draw one more survivor in that case? Does it mean I can have four people and the dog in my squad? And what if it gets drawn as one of the two survivors who start in the bunker? Do I draw another survivor and place it there as well?

Speaking of the survivors in the bunker - are they (and the items placed there) supposed to be face-up or face-down?
 
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zee Parks
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
Julie, could you help me figure out one more thing from my first game?

The Princess (the dog Survivor) card says "does not count as a survivor". What exactly does this mean? should I draw one more survivor in that case? Does it mean I can have four people and the dog in my squad? And what if it gets drawn as one of the two survivors who start in the bunker? Do I draw another survivor and place it there as well?


1. doesn't count towards your limit of 4, thus you can 4 survivor + princess
2. Princess is a him, named by a little girl and the name stuck.
3. If you start with princess, you keep him(think man and his dog, likely pairing in apocalypse), princess can't wield a weapon, but can auto find food when scavenging so it balances out.



Quote:
Speaking of the survivors in the bunker - are they (and the items placed there) supposed to be face-up or face-down?


face down until someone dies out.
 
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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zeeparkes wrote:
Quote:
Speaking of the survivors in the bunker - are they (and the items placed there) supposed to be face-up or face-down?


face down until someone dies out.


Then what if I want to feed them to get them to join my squad? Do I do that blindly, without knowing what they're capable of?

And one more thing, which is of importance if Princess takes up a starting survivor slot (since he can't carry all that much stuff) - if I rescue a person during scavenging, can I have them carry my stuff (the freshly scavenged stuff, I mean) even though I haven't fed them yet?
 
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Julie Ahern

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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
zeeparkes wrote:
Quote:
Speaking of the survivors in the bunker - are they (and the items placed there) supposed to be face-up or face-down?


face down until someone dies out.


Then what if I want to feed them to get them to join my squad? Do I do that blindly, without knowing what they're capable of?

And one more thing, which is of importance if Princess takes up a starting survivor slot (since he can't carry all that much stuff) - if I rescue a person during scavenging, can I have them carry my stuff (the freshly scavenged stuff, I mean) even though I haven't fed them yet?


Yes the 2 Survivors in the bunker at the start of the game are a gamble to get. The rest are ones players place in the bunker if they choose not to feed them, so you have more of an idea of what you're getting.

BTW Princess was my best friend's dog as a child. She wanted a brother, she got a dog. She wanted a girl dog, she got a male one. She revolted, and Princess, the German shepherd was born.

New (unaligned) survivors can carry stuff.
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Kenny N.
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No idea why you'd get a game and not play it for 10 months or why you'd get a zombie game if you don't like zombies, though I guess I can understand your curiosity. zombie

Thanks for raising some valid points though on your first play through. Was looking for some first timer feedback and this will suffice.
 
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