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Subject: Casualties in units not in the formation rss

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Alex
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Sorry for posting so many questions in a row, but I'm making my first play solo.

Being so, I know all the cards. In a siege, the defender has "mercenaries grow restless". The attacker declares a formation with regulars only laugh

Can he take his casualties from the rest of mercenaries he left in the stack outside the formation?
Also, I guess that if all the attacking formation units were eliminated, the leader won't be affected by "If all attacking land units are eliminated, surviving attacking army leaders are placed, etc" doesn't apply (you still have besieging units).


Also, the stupid things I'm doing led me to a intercepting case when
Quote:
Formations moving into a space that already contains land
units may only be intercepted if the intercepting units belong
to the same power as the units in the destination space, or
to a power allied to the units in the destination space. Such
an interception is not allowed if there are units under siege
(from any power) at the start of the active formation’s move


The fortress was under siege but there weren't any units. It was empty. With a literal interpretation, I could have intercepted to help my lonely assailant, but I guessed that it was against the spirit of the rule. Any thoughts?
 
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Eric Alexopoulos
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zosete wrote:
Sorry for posting so many questions in a row, but I'm making my first play solo.

Being so, I know all the cards. In a siege, the defender has "mercenaries grow restless". The attacker declares a formation with regulars only laugh

Can he take his casualties from the rest of mercenaries he left in the stack outside the formation?

The card specifically says: 'Play just before an enemy formation rolls to assault one of your fortified spaces. All mercenaries in that enemy formation are removed from play.' If there are no mercenaries in the assaulting force, then the "mercenaries grow restless" card is useless. Mercenaries cannot be removed from the 'extra' forces because they are not assaulting.

zosete wrote:

Also, I guess that if all the attacking formation units were eliminated, the leader won't be affected by "If all attacking land units are eliminated, surviving attacking army leaders are placed, etc" doesn't apply (you still have besieging units).

Correct. Even if the attacking formation is eliminated, there are still additional land units in the space. However, if the defenders outnumber the attackers, then the attackers would need to retreat as normal.

zosete wrote:

Also, the stupid things I'm doing led me to a intercepting case when
Quote:
Formations moving into a space that already contains land
units may only be intercepted if the intercepting units belong
to the same power as the units in the destination space, or
to a power allied to the units in the destination space. Such
an interception is not allowed if there are units under siege
(from any power) at the start of the active formation’s move


The fortress was under siege but there weren't any units. It was empty. With a literal interpretation, I could have intercepted to help my lonely assailant, but I guessed that it was against the spirit of the rule. Any thoughts?

Not sure what you're asking here. A power can intercept into an empty space as long as the two powers are At War and the space isn't already under siege. A power can intercept into a space with units if the space contains units of that power or an ally. A power cannot intercept if the space was already under siege (in the case that an enemy reinforces his besiegers) or contains another power's units and not allied.
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Alex
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Thanks. Sorry I didn't express myself correctly. I know the card is useless (that's why the regulars-only attack). My question is "can the attacker take the casualties of the hits he receives normally from the rest of units that didn't join the assault formation?

2. My case. France has a massive army but sends 1 unit to the adjacent enemy fortress. Its empty. Starts a siege without defending units.

In the enemy's impulse, they send a relief force. France has got the army in legal position to intercept. Now the 2010 rules clarify "no interceptions if there are units under siege". But there are no units under siege.
So, should we take this literally or think. "Nah, weird loophole. Probably meant no interception at all when a siege is already going on".
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Kristian Thy
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zosete wrote:
Thanks. Sorry I didn't express myself correctly. I know the card is useless (that's why the regulars-only attack). My question is "can the attacker take the casualties of the hits he receives normally from the rest of units that didn't join the assault formation?


Yes.
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Aaron Cappocchi
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turbothy wrote:
zosete wrote:
Thanks. Sorry I didn't express myself correctly. I know the card is useless (that's why the regulars-only attack). My question is "can the attacker take the casualties of the hits he receives normally from the rest of units that didn't join the assault formation?


Yes.


My initial reaction was "No, of course not. Casualties come from the activated formation", but as usual Kristian is right - the rules do say they are removed "from their stack of units in the space".

These are some magical, versatile mercenaries! They are not taking part in the siege, so they can't become Restless at not getting paid and being abused, but they somehow are on the front lines to absorb all the losses! (Kind of like the divinely swift Ottoman cavalry, who do not affect the siege at all but can also dart in front of enemy slings and arrows to protect their more expensive colleagues).

A more realistic rule might be "casualties must be taken from the activated/besieging formation first". But that would decrease the utility or mercs/cavalry as cannon fodder and may not be a rule the game needs.
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Kristian Thy
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Since the mercs weren't ordered to join the assault, they're presumably off to one side taking a rest. Unfortunately they chose to have their picnic in a depression that is subsequently flooded by the defenders.

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