Spencer Myers
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Hi all,

I have never played Descent, but am planning on buying it very soon. I also plan to buy one lieutenant pack to round out the order.

My questions revolve around using the lieutenant's agent figure and plot cards in the game.

As I understand it from reading sundry posts here I cannot use the agent figure if his character appears in the quest as a lieutenant, correct?

If this is true, then:

1. Can I use the plot deck in a campaign even if I can't use the corresponding agent figure because he appears as a lieutenant in a quest?

2. Are there any agent characters that cannot be used in the base set? (ie: do some lieutenant characters appear in every quest in the campaign, which would prevent me from using their agent figure?)

I just want to make sure I buy one of the lieutenants with an agent figure and plot deck that work well in the base game and will actually see some use.

Thus far my intent is to buy Belthir's pack first, as it seems like a good general agent and plot deck. When I gain more experience with the game I'll most likley buy the others.

Thanks in advance for the help!
 
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Jon-Carlo Canezo
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You CAN use the plot deck, even if the agent is in a campaign, yes.

And no, there aren't any agents that are in every quests. Most lieutenants typically show up in about 1 Act I quest, and 1 Act II quest, and potentially the finale.

I just finished a campaign with Belthir as my plot deck, incidentally, and his deck was kind of mediocre outside of Dual Training. Your mileage may vary.
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Spencer Myers
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Thanks!

Just curious, what would you recommend as a first-buy lieutenant pack, if not Belthir?
 
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spencer_myers wrote:
Thanks!

Just curious, what would you recommend as a first-buy lieutenant pack, if not Belthir?


Zachareth is in my opinion the most powerful, but beware the fact that his plot deck is designed to win campaigns. It rewards long term gameplay and hand management. Unfortunately he cannot be used as agent in the basic Campaign (Shadow Rune) because he is an major character in it. Still, you would get the miniature to use, which is pretty neat in Shadow Rune since he is the prime evil in the campaign
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Jon-Carlo Canezo
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I'll echo Zachareth as a good plot deck.

The others I might consider are: Valyndra and Queen Ariad. Queen Ariad looks like a beast, and they have some of the best and most durable agent cards too! If an agent dies, you have to rebuy the summon agent card and that kinda sucks. But if they're going around with 20+ health and a ton of defense dice, it makes it a lot harder. And they become great assets if you want to slow down your heroes in certain quests.
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alex
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Personnaly, if only one to buy, it would be Valyndra (or maybe Ariad, not queen)
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Spencer Myers
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Thanks for the replies!

rugal wrote:
Personnaly, if only one to buy, it would be Valyndra (or maybe Ariad, not queen)


Is your decision based on preference for the miniature or their plot deck? Or both? Just curious.
 
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Darksome S. Brute
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The rules state that "the overlord cannot use some agents in specific campaigns. For example, the overlord cannot use Baron Zachareth as an agent while playing "the Shadow Rune" campaign because it features Baron Zachareth as an important lieutenant in that campaign."

So how do I know if the lieutenant is 'important' enough not to use in a campaign? Or is one not able to use ANY lieutenant as an agent if they also feature in that campaign?

I ask b/c I just bought the Splig lieutenant pack, and am wondering if I can use him as an agent for the Shadow Rune campaign.
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Darksome wrote:
The rules state that "the overlord cannot use some agents in specific campaigns. For example, the overlord cannot use Baron Zachareth as an agent while playing "the Shadow Rune" campaign because it features Baron Zachareth as an important lieutenant in that campaign."

So how do I know if the lieutenant is 'important' enough not to use in a campaign? Or is one not able to use ANY lieutenant as an agent if they also feature in that campaign?

I ask b/c I just bought the Splig lieutenant pack, and am wondering if I can use him as an agent for the Shadow Rune campaign.

They tell you. And it's only 1 lieutentant/agent for each quest that is put off limits. It's the primary bad guy.

You can't use the Agent version of Splig in the specific scenarios that he appears in. You can use him in all the others.
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spencer_myers wrote:
Thanks for the replies!
rugal wrote:
Personnaly, if only one to buy, it would be Valyndra (or maybe Ariad, not queen)

Is your decision based on preference for the miniature or their plot deck? Or both? Just curious.

Valyndra has a good plot deck if you're going to use large monsters. Whether or not you use large monsters depends on what campaign you are doing (what the reinforcement rules are) and what the heroes team is composed of. So she has a good plot deck for the Shadow Rune campaign. If you're doing Labyrinth of Ruin, some of the others may be as equally as good or better.

It also comes down to flavor. What style do you want to play? There really is no single best or strongest.
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Jon-Carlo Canezo
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Darksome wrote:
The rules state that "the overlord cannot use some agents in specific campaigns. For example, the overlord cannot use Baron Zachareth as an agent while playing "the Shadow Rune" campaign because it features Baron Zachareth as an important lieutenant in that campaign."

So how do I know if the lieutenant is 'important' enough not to use in a campaign? Or is one not able to use ANY lieutenant as an agent if they also feature in that campaign?

I ask b/c I just bought the Splig lieutenant pack, and am wondering if I can use him as an agent for the Shadow Rune campaign.


The rule states that you can't use the agent, not the plot deck. You can use Zachareth's plot deck, its just the "Summon Zachareth" agent can't be used. I would probably say, that if the lieutenant is the "big bad" (something like Ariad, Queen Ariad, Sarena, and Raythen for Labyrinth of Ruin, Valyndra for Lair of the Wyrm, Bol'Goreth for Trollfens, and Gargan Mirklace, Rylan Olliven, Tristayne Olliven, and Verminous for Shadow of Nerekhall) you shouldn't use them. Up to your discretion, however, and remember that you can still use their plot decks. Just that you can't summon the agent in any quests in that campaign.
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Dean L
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JCCanezo wrote:


The rule states that you can't use the agent, not the plot deck. You can use Zachareth's plot deck, its just the "Summon Zachareth" agent can't be used. I would probably say, that if the lieutenant is the "big bad" (something like Ariad, Queen Ariad, Sarena, and Raythen for Labyrinth of Ruin, Valyndra for Lair of the Wyrm, Bol'Goreth for Trollfens, and Gargan Mirklace, Rylan Olliven, Tristayne Olliven, and Verminous for Shadow of Nerekhall) you shouldn't use them. Up to your discretion, however, and remember that you can still use their plot decks. Just that you can't summon the agent in any quests in that campaign.


The only Campaign-wide bans on agents (you can use the deck, just not summon) are:
Shadow Rune: Zacareth
Labyrinth of Ruin: Queen Ariad
Shadows of Nerkhall: Tristayne Olliven, Rylan Olliven, Gargan Mirklace.

There's a general rule that for quests where the agents appear, you can't summon them.

So a few notes:
You can use regular Ariad in Labyrinth, though she can't be used in quests where the Queen version appears either.
Raythen and Serena are usable in Labyrinth, but the reality is the general rule will stop you using them in nearly every quest if the heroes get them as their ally.
There are no rules for plot decks in mini campaigns officially, but it's generally agreed if you house rule it the you wouldn't be able to use Valyndra in Lair or Bol'Goreth in Trollfens.
Verminous is the only Nerekhall agent you can use in Nerekhall. Mirklace is the 'boss' and Rylan is a hero 'ally' for much of the first act, so that makes sense. Not so sure on the reasoning for Tristayne.
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Tristayne (the lieutenant)
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is never seen again if the heroes win a certain quest. Breaks the narrative to bring him back as an agent after that.
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Jon-Carlo Canezo
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Deano2099 wrote:
JCCanezo wrote:


The rule states that you can't use the agent, not the plot deck. You can use Zachareth's plot deck, its just the "Summon Zachareth" agent can't be used. I would probably say, that if the lieutenant is the "big bad" (something like Ariad, Queen Ariad, Sarena, and Raythen for Labyrinth of Ruin, Valyndra for Lair of the Wyrm, Bol'Goreth for Trollfens, and Gargan Mirklace, Rylan Olliven, Tristayne Olliven, and Verminous for Shadow of Nerekhall) you shouldn't use them. Up to your discretion, however, and remember that you can still use their plot decks. Just that you can't summon the agent in any quests in that campaign.


The only Campaign-wide bans on agents (you can use the deck, just not summon) are:
Shadow Rune: Zacareth
Labyrinth of Ruin: Queen Ariad
Shadows of Nerkhall: Tristayne Olliven, Rylan Olliven, Gargan Mirklace.

There's a general rule that for quests where the agents appear, you can't summon them.

So a few notes:
You can use regular Ariad in Labyrinth, though she can't be used in quests where the Queen version appears either.
Raythen and Serena are usable in Labyrinth, but the reality is the general rule will stop you using them in nearly every quest if the heroes get them as their ally.
There are no rules for plot decks in mini campaigns officially, but it's generally agreed if you house rule it the you wouldn't be able to use Valyndra in Lair or Bol'Goreth in Trollfens.
Verminous is the only Nerekhall agent you can use in Nerekhall. Mirklace is the 'boss' and Rylan is a hero 'ally' for much of the first act, so that makes sense. Not so sure on the reasoning for Tristayne.


Where are those rules, by the way? I can't find anything except for an explicit rule about Zachareth.

I would find Ariad being used in Labyrinth of Ruin as suspect, because it isn't guaranteed that you get Queen Ariad in the finale (OL has to win an Act II quest for the ability to use Queen Ariad instead of the regular version).

And the allies play pivotal roles and the potential to swap them via an Act II quest seems that it might mess up that as well, as far as the narrative goes.
 
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They're on the Summon (Agent) cards themselves. Ariad's agent can indeed by summoned into a LoR quest she's not featured in, according to her card.
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David Bernier
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Deano2099 wrote:
JCCanezo wrote:


The rule states that you can't use the agent, not the plot deck. You can use Zachareth's plot deck, its just the "Summon Zachareth" agent can't be used. I would probably say, that if the lieutenant is the "big bad" (something like Ariad, Queen Ariad, Sarena, and Raythen for Labyrinth of Ruin, Valyndra for Lair of the Wyrm, Bol'Goreth for Trollfens, and Gargan Mirklace, Rylan Olliven, Tristayne Olliven, and Verminous for Shadow of Nerekhall) you shouldn't use them. Up to your discretion, however, and remember that you can still use their plot decks. Just that you can't summon the agent in any quests in that campaign.


The only Campaign-wide bans on agents (you can use the deck, just not summon) are:
Shadow Rune: Zacareth
Labyrinth of Ruin: Queen Ariad
Shadows of Nerkhall: Tristayne Olliven, Rylan Olliven, Gargan Mirklace.

There's a general rule that for quests where the agents appear, you can't summon them.

So a few notes:
You can use regular Ariad in Labyrinth, though she can't be used in quests where the Queen version appears either.
Raythen and Serena are usable in Labyrinth, but the reality is the general rule will stop you using them in nearly every quest if the heroes get them as their ally.
There are no rules for plot decks in mini campaigns officially, but it's generally agreed if you house rule it the you wouldn't be able to use Valyndra in Lair or Bol'Goreth in Trollfens.
Verminous is the only Nerekhall agent you can use in Nerekhall. Mirklace is the 'boss' and Rylan is a hero 'ally' for much of the first act, so that makes sense. Not so sure on the reasoning for Tristayne.


That's the answer i've been looking for since this morning. I'm starting the LoR campaign as the OL and I bought Ariad (not the Queen, the human) and I read and reread and checked everywhere if I was right thinking I could summon the Ariad agent in any encounter where her or the Queen do not appear as lieutenants.

All replies i've had was that I couldn't...so I kept searching and searching and couldn't find anything until now.

I think people don't distinguish Ariad vs Queen Ariad, which are two different entities.

Thanks, you'Re my savior
 
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Dean L
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Rhezuss wrote:

I think people don't distinguish Ariad vs Queen Ariad, which are two different entities.

Thanks, you'Re my savior


No worries, glad I could help! People made assumptions based on Zachareth, and then didn't look at the Ariad cards closely enough. Story-wise, having Ariad crop up from time to time makes absolute sense (in a way it doesn't with Zach, as he's sending you on quests in the Act 1 flavour text).

Nerekhall blows any theories of consistency along anything other than story-based reasoning by restricting three of the four Lieutenants.
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Deano2099 wrote:


The only Campaign-wide bans on agents (you can use the deck, just not summon) are:
Shadow Rune: Zacareth
Labyrinth of Ruin: Queen Ariad
Shadows of Nerkhall: Tristayne Olliven, Rylan Olliven, Gargan Mirklace.


Thanks so much for this info. My first agent packs were Splig and Ariad, so I too was searching the rules for some explicit info on whether I could use either in the lor campaign we're starting.

I'm considering splig because he's a hoot, but I haven't has a chance to look at the synergies I might get between the plot decks and the new OL deck.
 
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