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Subject: Should I consider this game? rss

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Kirk Bauer
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I'm sorry if this is a FAQ, I poked through the forums a bit and didn't see it, but I haven't kept up with all Attack Wing news.

I have a big Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game collection and play from time to time, but I like Star Trek more. Should I consider getting into this game as well? Are there any notable differences besides the theme and ships? Anything you think that would "wow" me?

At least for the initial ships, I was unimpressed by the quality of the minis and paint-jobs compared to the X-Wing ones. Have they improved at all?

Finally, if I did get into it, what kind of investment am I talking about to get one of every available ship? It seems there have been a lot of minis released already...
 
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Chad Brown
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The Star Trek game is significantly different from its Star Wars counter part, despite having similar mechanics. Star Trek tends to have a deck building feel to it and it lends itself to a high degree of power gaming with mixed factions.

The game certainly is fun to play, but sometimes the competitiveness can get in the way of that fun when everyone is flying the same build. Also, if you want to remain competitive you are giving up ever flying certain ships. Another issue is that op prizes have cards that are necessary in order to remain competitive in tournament play. If you're a completionist, meaning you like to have everything, you're not going to have a good time trying to get all the op prizes to complete your collection. In a way, I wish I had never bought into the game for that reason alone.
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Ryan Caputo
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The game is really fun, I end up with a big smile win or loose.

Fleet building - some people love this as do I. But if you want to jump on into a game part of it is building out each ship, which can be time consuming depending on how much you have.

The mechanics are the same but with all the flair you put on your ship (or can) it much more than just the basic mechanics.

there are a few things I don't like but forgive it overall because the game is just fun fast and easy to play.
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Jon NyD

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kirkbauer wrote:
I'm sorry if this is a FAQ, I poked through the forums a bit and didn't see it, but I haven't kept up with all Attack Wing news.

I have a big Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game collection and play from time to time, but I like Star Trek more. Should I consider getting into this game as well? Are there any notable differences besides the theme and ships? Anything you think that would "wow" me?


Rolling more than 5 dice (advanced proton torpedoes) is going to wow you, rolling 10+ dice with a 90% conversion to hit/crit is going to make you think this game is broken. Think of this game as more of a cross between X-Wing and MTG, with all the combos out there the "deckbuilding" aspect of it can't be ignored. If you're playing faction pure this is mitigated somewhat, most of the time naked ships are NOT going to be the best bet. Aside from that, everyone's an Arvel. They can all fire on each other even if in base contact.

kirkbauer wrote:
At least for the initial ships, I was unimpressed by the quality of the minis and paint-jobs compared to the X-Wing ones. Have they improved at all?


They have gotten better. And the models are much sturdier than x-wing models. They touch up very well, much moreso than the x-wing ones, but that has more to do with the initial lack in quality comparatively. If you want the "named" ship paint job you will either have to do it yourself or look into HeroClix Tactics for named models with appropriate paint jobs (mainly just badging). All their ships touch up pretty good with a wash.

kirkbauer wrote:
Finally, if I did get into it, what kind of investment am I talking about to get one of every available ship? It seems there have been a lot of minis released already...


One of every available ship will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 through an online retailer (~$10 per expansion + starter). If you're a completionist you should add about $1000 to that to get all the OP items including GenKhan Khan and DS9, as well as all map elements and prize ships released up until now.


However, if you can hold off and buy as you see fit, there is nothing in any of those Organized Play kits that is necessary to be competitive. Arguably the only thing would be the resource "Flagship", and those can be had on eBay for around $10.


At this point, I'd recommend a started and a few ships. See if you like this game before buying into it... especially if you are a completionist. The real value is in every expansion which includes a mission, unlike in X-Wing where only the large ships and aces include missions. If there is any organized play near you, I'd recommend you check out one or two of those as well. And if not... convince a FLGS to get the OP kits!
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George M

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I have a big Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game collection and play from time to time, but I like Star Trek more. Should I consider getting into this game as well?

This alone is a pretty good reason to pick up this game. If you like xwing as a game but prefer star trek as a theme, you will probably enjoy attack wing.

Are there any notable differences besides the theme and ships? Anything you think that would "wow" me?

There are definately differences. Xwing is much more 'dog fightery'. In attack wing, most ships can take several rounds of hits without going down (with the exception of some extreme combos). And many of the ships are far less maneuverable its much more about lining up key shots then staying on your enemy's tail.

There is also a much larger focus on upgrades and crew. In xwing upgrades and pilots are not as important as the ships themselves. In attack wing the crew, captains, tech and weapons are very important and make a huge difference in the game. The Enterprise D vs the Enterprise D with Picard in command are completely different experiences.

Because of this there are multiple levels to play. My group sticks to faction pure fleets, and we play for fun more then for competition. If you do this I think the game is fantastic. If you get very competitive or turn up to organized play events there is pretty serious power gaming to be had because of the easy nature of mixing factions and the potential 'power combos' that are out there.

I find the game to be very fun if you keep it casual, or at least keep things faction pure, but others will disagree. If you liked magic the gathering or other combo base card games, you get a lot of that kind of feel with attack wing if you are competitive.

At least for the initial ships, I was unimpressed by the quality of the minis and paint-jobs compared to the X-Wing ones. Have they improved at all?

It has improved, but its not as good as x-wing. Many repaint their ships if they want a really good look.

Finally, if I did get into it, what kind of investment am I talking about to get one of every available ship? It seems there have been a lot of minis released already...

If you need to be a completionist, the investment will be high. Wizkids is releasing ships faster then ffg did with xwing. But you dont NEED every ship. Most fleets are 2-3 ships. So for $45 you will have a workable force, $90 you have 2 opposing fleets to supply a friend. Thats fairly low for this sort of game.

In attack wing there are different styles of fleet, whether you are faction pure or if you mix and match factions. My expectation is that most will buy ships to fit that style rather then picking up everything. Thats what I and the other members of my group do.
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Nicholas Bazzano
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Thre game itself is fantastic fun to play, the power gaming sucks the fun out of it sometimes. So, like anything else, it really depends on your play group. If you have a fun little group, that values fun gaming ver winning, then you will have a great time with this or almost any other game.

If you want to get into the game, you can easily get in with a starter, and a couple of ships. Remember, it only takes two to four ships to build a 100 point fleet up.

So, my advice on cost saving measures would be to focus on one or two factions, and get a total of three or four ships total for said faction. Buy the starter, add the Defiant or Voyager (depending on which show you prefer), add a third Federation ship of your choice, and you have one fleet.

After that, decide on a second Faction if you want, and repeat. Like Klingons? Get a Bird of Prey and Neg'var and you're done. Prefer Romulans? Add the Valdore and a third tiny ship in, and Bob's your uncle as they say.

Basically, a starter and one or two ships is all you really need to play this game.
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Emma
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I had the same problem as you and just bought into this a few weeks ago. I love it more than X Wing and since I only play casually we don't use mixed fleets unless the scenario calls for it.

I am now thinning out my X Wing collection in favour of more star Trek ships. I think the missions are pretty cool & we all had a great laugh trying to beat the Kobiashi Maru ( spelling?!?) mission. Only 3 ships for this and we had a great afternoon.

As for the minis I like them. They are not up to the X Wing standard but they are a lot more sturdy & can be kept in a plastic bag instead of original packaging
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A starter set ($20-25) and an extra ship for each of the three factions that are in the starter ($10-15 each) is more than enough to get you started and have some various building possibilities. That will give you 6 ships in 3 different factions that you can build with as well as a handful of optional upgrades for each.

If you find you like the game and want to stick with it, there are a couple ways your collection can go from there;
- Some people only like certain flavors of the game that pertain to the show they liked the best. A lot of people are TNG only fans and so they only collect the ships that appeared in those shows. This cuts down on the number of expansions that they end up buying and keeps the game relatively inexpensive.
- Some people only like specific factions and only buy the expansions that pertain to that faction. This is probably one of the cheapest ways to enjoy the game. There is no reason to buy expansions that they will never use, so it makes sense as well.
- Competitive players will seek out the expansions that have the most useful upgrades and ships in them and buy multiples (if needed) to get extra cards. While this cuts down on some expansions you actually buy, getting multiples of some (and some have a lot of Unique upgrades that are worthless in multiples) it ends up costing a little more in the end.
- Collectors will want to get at least one of everything (if not two so they can have a named and a generic of each ship). This can get very expensive, very quickly. While currently there are 27 ships available in retail (3 from the starter, 8 from wave 0, 4 each from waves 1, 2, 3, and 4), there are also currently 7 OP prize ships that sell on Ebay for mild to high prices, 2 participation prize fighter squadrons, 6 months of OP Resources and map elements, and of course the giant and very expensive DS9 model. Add onto that the near monthly releases of new ships and 3 more OP events by October of this year.





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Jason Becker
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Kirk, locally both games have sort of seen a drop off, but as soon as the new OP events come together, it'll pick up again.

It seems like the few local stores that run events all have they're own "feel".

Giga-bites has/had two OP leagues, one open fleet-building and pretty competative, the other faction-pure ships and fun. Titan in Symrna has been fun and we've been trying to pull together a group for casual games. I haven't played at Dr. No's, but they apparently ran a few OP series and folks mentioned they were competative.

If you just want to check it out, give Titan a call and see when someone will be there. I did a few demo games/scenrios about a month ago for some new players on a Monday night. Someone usually has stuff with them.

Our X-wing league at Titan had a drop-off, but I really think that was due to the serious delay in new product FF was releasing.
 
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Roy Stephens
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Omen wrote:
Another issue is that op prizes have cards that are necessary in order to remain competitive in tournament play.



100% False.
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Scott Pitner
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To get 1 of everything, including the 4 ships that were just released today, at full MSRP you're talking $400 (1 base set plus 24 expansions). There are 15 more ships that will come out by the end of October this year. The MSRP on that for one of each will run you $235. It's certainly not a cheap game, but I'm just trying to be real here. "Online store pricing" you can own what is currently released (1 of everything) for $280.

I'm similar - I own Star Wars but much more a fan of Star Trek. If you're buying it expecting to see better miniatures than X-Wing, then pass on the game. I have gotten past the fact that the scale is off, the minis look like toys (which they are), and that if I want them to look awesome I'm going to have to paint them myself. I've managed to find time to paint 2 (and even then I didn't finish) lol. That's my own problem. I'm finding it difficult to maintain purchasing both games, especially if I want to ever buy a different game of any sort. Since I really like the Organized Play events with chances to win prize exclusive ships (you do not need these ships, they just feed a frenzy to have it all!), I buy a LOT of extra ships. If you want any extra copies of ships for some of the upgrade cards (there are definitely some cards worth having multiple copies), I sadly have to admit that I've already spent over $700 on this game (that's just for the retail ships and doesn't include the storage or prize exclusive ships that I didn't win!) That also does not include the 4 ships that just came out today. No wonder my wife think I'm crazy lol.

I don't want this post to scare you away because I love this game and have played 60+ rounds since I picked it up at the end of August '13. I just want to set your expectations that if you want to have it all, it's not going to be cheap.
 
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Rob Tsuk
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hockeyjedi wrote:
Omen wrote:
Another issue is that op prizes have cards that are necessary in order to remain competitive in tournament play.



100% False.


I'm certain the original poster did mean the competitive prize ships and isn't correct, at least around here.

The participation prizes like command tokens and flagships do appear in pretty much all the tournament builds, competitive or not. Those are pretty easy to get though, for free or a small price off eBay.
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Don D.
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hockeyjedi wrote:
Omen wrote:
Another issue is that op prizes have cards that are necessary in order to remain competitive in tournament play.



100% False.


I finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 2nd in the OPs without ever using a single ship, card, or item that was given as an OP prize.
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Dave Benhart
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Omen wrote:
...when everyone is flying the same build.


This is not true. There are so many variations and counters that I rarely see the exact same build twice. When I do, the other player admits they're being lazy and hasn't had time to think up something new. There is not "one winning build" like the Tie Swarm in X-Wing. There simply can't be. There's just far too many variables for any one fleet, or ship, to be "the best". And if something does start to dominate, more ships come out and the meta changes.
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Roy Stephens
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davedujour wrote:
Omen wrote:
...when everyone is flying the same build.


This is not true. There are so many variations and counters that I rarely see the exact same build twice. When I do, the other player admits they're being lazy and hasn't had time to think up something new. There is not "one winning build" like the Tie Swarm in X-Wing. There simply can't be. There's just far too many variables for any one fleet, or ship, to be "the best". And if something does start to dominate, more ships come out and the meta changes.



Agreed. To many around here though, i think "same build" means "uses Capt. Picard". Doesn't matter if it is Picard on a Keldon, Picard on Excelsior, or Picard Shinzon on a Valdore. It's all the same build. The moment Picard shows up in their opponent's list: "MUNCHKIN POWER GAMING!!"




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Omen wrote:
The Star Trek game is significantly different from its Star Wars counter part, despite having similar mechanics. Star Trek tends to have a deck building feel to it and it lends itself to a high degree of power gaming with mixed factions.

The game certainly is fun to play, but sometimes the competitiveness can get in the way of that fun when everyone is flying the same build. Also, if you want to remain competitive you are giving up ever flying certain ships. Another issue is that op prizes have cards that are necessary in order to remain competitive in tournament play. If you're a completionist, meaning you like to have everything, you're not going to have a good time trying to get all the op prizes to complete your collection. In a way, I wish I had never bought into the game for that reason alone.


Note - these comments are mostly only applicable to tournament/organized play gamers. I am a casual player, as are my gaming buddies, and we love the game and haven't experienced these issues at all. Also, I'm not a completionist, but I do have a fairly decent fleet of 33 starships, which includes some duplicates (because I like have multiples of some ships). Figure a round cost of $15 per ship, after $40 for a starter set, for cost estimates. I bought two starters, so that's six ships, and I've bought 27 expansions. So, that brings my investment to around $500. Add in $40 for a big Plano box to store everything, $6 for a cheap but effective piece of black felt for a playing surface, and around $8 for card sleeves, and I'm around $550 for the whole shebang. Not bad for a great game where I have four nicely-fleshed out factions - plenty of play options for me and my friends.

I should note as well that my gaming group pretty much plays 100% faction pure. We just like it better that way - it seems more appropriate to the theme of the game. YMMV.
 
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Michael Ptak
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hockeyjedi wrote:
davedujour wrote:
Omen wrote:
...when everyone is flying the same build.


This is not true. There are so many variations and counters that I rarely see the exact same build twice. When I do, the other player admits they're being lazy and hasn't had time to think up something new. There is not "one winning build" like the Tie Swarm in X-Wing. There simply can't be. There's just far too many variables for any one fleet, or ship, to be "the best". And if something does start to dominate, more ships come out and the meta changes.



Agreed. To many around here though, i think "same build" means "uses Capt. Picard". Doesn't matter if it is Picard on a Keldon, Picard on Excelsior, or Picard Shinzon on a Valdore. It's all the same build. The moment Picard shows up in their opponent's list: "MUNCHKIN POWER GAMING!!"






Just like a majority of outsiders always presume more than six TIE Fighters on an X-Wing table is the same TIE swarm? Or that they presume TIE Swarms are undefeatable?

I've played across the entire 6 month OP campaign and found myself burned out on competitive play. I'm giving the game another chance because the next tournament events are going to hand out reward prizes to players with thematic, fluffy builds (as opposed to powergaming ones), and because I haven't done a lot of casual play.

I have no interest in returning to tournament events where the bottom line is only winning lists. Because that way constantly requires purchases of the latest and greatest cards and ships quickly become obsolete as new power combos leave ships behind. And I'm tired of keeping up.
 
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Norsehound wrote:

I've played across the entire 6 month OP campaign and found myself burned out on competitive play. I'm giving the game another chance because the next tournament events are going to hand out reward prizes to players with thematic, fluffy builds (as opposed to powergaming ones), and because I haven't done a lot of casual play.

I have no interest in returning to tournament events where the bottom line is only winning lists. Because that way constantly requires purchases of the latest and greatest cards and ships quickly become obsolete as new power combos leave ships behind. And I'm tired of keeping up.


I don't want to pick on Mike here, but I've been at a lot of the same events that he has and my experience doesn't match his.

Some of our mutual opponents only fly Federation. Others only Dominion. Some fly what I consider very quixotic builds. It is far from the "power gaming" environment Mike disparages.

Again in that last OP I flew a fleet comprised of Khazara, Valdore, Vo (worst ship in the game, I'm told), and cloaked mines and won. It's just not true that you need to keep buying the latest stuff to be competitive.
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Evan
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Norsehound wrote:
Just like a majority of outsiders always presume more than six TIE Fighters on an X-Wing table is the same TIE swarm? Or that they presume TIE Swarms are undefeatable?


Norsehound wrote:
I have no interest in returning to tournament events where the bottom line is only winning lists. Because that way constantly requires purchases of the latest and greatest cards and ships quickly become obsolete as new power combos leave ships behind. And I'm tired of keeping up.


These two comments (especially when taken together) give me an idea: the X-Wing/Attack Wing drinking game!

Instead of constantly having to rebut the same uninformed platitudes by people who prefer that other game and just come over here to complain by rote about something that has never been true, or at most, might have seemed true five months ago, just take a drink whenever it happens!
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rtsuk wrote:
I don't want to pick on Mike here


I uh, took a different approach

Way to take the high road, man
 
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To me it depends on what you want out of the game. I have only primarily played in the OP events and had a pretty good time including playing with players from this board. I haven't bought nearly as much as most of the other players and I have only flown faction pure fleets so I was definitely hurting my chances of victory. I felt I did pretty well for flying faction pure each time. I do wish that the penalty for going against faction was a little more stiff as I do tire of seeing Picard across from me all the time, but even with that it has still been fun. I do wish I had friends who were into it in a casual way so I could play more often and if I did I feel I'd be getting more out of the game.
 
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I won op4 with a pure federation fleet. So it is possible, this includes out manovering Picard on a neg va.
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Roy Stephens
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I think the bottom line is that the game brings a lot of different experiences to the players, depending on their style and expectations.

The same is true for any game. The moment a game is no longer fun, one should step away from it. Life is stressful enough without our gaming hobby making it worse.

(Also, in case it seemed as such; my above .gif was not meant to single out or target any one person, but rather, a mindset... also, it just makes me laugh really hard the longer i stare at it).
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Nicholai Douglas wrote:
I do wish that the penalty for going against faction was a little more stiff as I do tire of seeing Picard across from me all the time, but even with that it has still been fun.


I'd like to see less Picard on non-Federation fleets but I don't think changing the cross-faction penalty is the way to achieve it. By the time you made Picard expensive enough to deter putting him on a non-Federation ship you'd pretty much eliminate all mixed faction builds.
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Evan
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rtsuk wrote:
Nicholai Douglas wrote:
I do wish that the penalty for going against faction was a little more stiff as I do tire of seeing Picard across from me all the time, but even with that it has still been fun.


I'd like to see less Picard on non-Federation fleets but I don't think changing the cross-faction penalty is the way to achieve it. By the time you made Picard expensive enough to deter putting him on a non-Federation ship you'd pretty much eliminate all mixed faction builds.


Yeah normally I'm opposed to all the increased faction penalty house rules and such that people like to propose, but hey, has anyone suggested a variable penalty? Say 1/3 of the point cost, or something as simple as "1 point for non-uniques, 2 points for uniques." Or a cumulative penalty that increases with each additional out-of-faction upgrade.

I guess each of those would create weird incentives and disincentives--which is a lot of what I dislike about changing the penalties. Oh well, carry on then.
 
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