Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Ars Victor» Forums » General

Subject: Tuesday's Tactical Twister: FAE FIGHT rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Sides: Holy Trinity vs. Treehuggers
Your Play: Blue Turn 7


How It Works

Every Tuesday, I post a picture of a game in progress, with a brief explanation of how it got there. You post your moves: what would you do this turn, and why? Next week, I'll publish the strategy that gets the most thumbs (as well as any personal favorites) on our news site.






Background

More Ancient Hegemony units in a veritable orgy of new Space Elfyness! Red's build relies on two heavy-hitting Incarna and a bunch of filler. Blue has gone for an "All Terrain, All the Time" build that relies on finesse-hitters in the Reavers and Wayfarers to deal damage.

Most of the game so far has consisted of dancing over the left side of the board, and a couple of fierce duels between the Incarna and Reavers on the right. Both armies consist primarily of fairly squishy units that have to use a lot of Take Cover and Bug Out to maximize their value.

While the Glory gap looks big, the starting deltas aren't: Blue has lost three points, while Red has lost two. Victory in this game is going to go to whichever player can dig in hard enough on one of the cap points, or can kill several high-value enemy units.

It's the bottom of turn seven and you are playing Blue. You've just reduced your enemy's Glory by one. What do you do?

Threats & Opportunities

You have a lot of options, and you can play the cards to make them happen. Your forces are unscratched, but you need to gain some cap points to make up the Glory deficit that you started with.

Special Notes

There are two new special abilities on the Hegemony units: Fury and Ambush.
- Fury lets you turn a hit that you deliver into a push. It and Standfast can be used to cancel each other, in any order.
- Ambush make a ranged attack unaffected by a defender's special abilities, like Take Cover and Bug Out.

The Hegemony units with a single jump move have some interesting properties:
- Units with one jump move can't actually jump over anything; Jump moves let you ignore intervening hexes, but not the hex you land in.
- You *can* use Jump moves when you're engaged, so a single Jump lets you move at least one space even if you are engaged.

(open full size image in new tab for details)


References:
Rulebook
Quick Reference
Dice Probabilities
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew McGrady
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmb
I'd play the 7 Star.

We Assualt with the Wayfarers. They stay in place and shoot the Incarna. Hopefully the Incarna is pushed back (hurting it is also good).

If the Incarna is pushed back we use the Reavers to Assault the Sirens on the Cap Point. If the Incarna is still in place then we use the Reavers to assault the Incarna again.

Lastly we want to get our HQ Sibyl onto the Cap Point. If the Cap Point is empty (due to the Reavers Assault) then we move the Sibyl onto the Cap Point and don't attack. We would then use our last Action Point to bring a Warden from reserves onto the board.

If the Cap Point is still occupied we use the Sibyl to Assault the Sirens using Fury if necessary to move onto the Cap Point.

Hopefully by the end of the turn we've taken the Cap Point with our Sibyl HQ unit and dealt some wounds to the Incarna and Sirens.

Thoughts?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Just note: Wayfarers firing on Incarna on the right would only throw two white dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
linoleum blownaparte
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmb
The graphic design of this game is great, I love how all the information is there on the units.

Something I've noticed... and I'm not sure whether it's a positive or negative or just the nature of the Commands & Colors style system. But it seems like the Big Decision of a turn often comes down to "Do I want to activate Gold or Silver?" Sometimes there doesn't seem to be much choice. In the puzzle a while back with the Conscripts I argued that a Silver order was necessary otherwise the enemy would re-occupy the Capture Point and kill our Bannerman.

I see a similar forced move here. A silver order is tempting because Blue's position is so good on the left flank: Red's Incarna is the only unit willing to stand and fight. However, a silver order would allow Red next turn to order his Incarna on the right to attack the center Amazon, with overwhelming odds to push the Amazon off the Capture Point. In dense terrain, with Tough hit points and with Blue's main forces far away, that Capture Point would be lost for good.

Blue really has to pin or engage the Incarna this turn, and that means a gold order.

With 7-Stars Blue can order an Assault by three units. The Reavers attack the Incarna, the Sibyl attacks the Sirens, and then the Wayfarer goes wherever he's needed, for example to engage the Incarna again if the Reavers got pushed by the Incarna's counterattack.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Paul
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is an interesting puzzle. It's mid-game and I don't think there is an immediately winning move, but I think we need to keep pressure on the left and Blue's HQ.

I'd play the 7 swords.

First, the Reavers attack the Corvette. The goal here is to push them back. A kill is nice, but the push is more important (luckily, we can convert a hit to a push if he doesn't bug out). If we get the push, advance them to the abandoned space. 2CP for off suit

If the Corvette retreats far enough, have our Wafarer fire at the HQ. Because of Ambush, the HQ can't take cover. 2 CP

Next, have the amazons indirect fire at the HQ. There's no battle back as the Reavers have engaged the HQ, and, with three red dice, we have 22% chance to kill the HQ - assuming the Wafayers did nothing. 2 CP

If the Wayfares had no shot at the HQ, they disengage from the Corvettes and fire at them (3 CP instead of the 2 listed above).

If they did get to fire at the HQ, we have one CP remaining. Use it to bring an on suit Amazon onto the board. On the right if their HQ is dead. On the left if the HQ is still alive.


Note, it might have been tempting to use the Wayfarers to cut off the Corvette's retreat, but that may actually puts the Wayfarers in melee with a tough unit. Not good.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Paul
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the issue with attacking on the right is that may put out own HQ in danger. As well, the Incarna is a dangerous melee unit. We need to stay at range from it. And not allow him to get battle backs on our cards.

And keeping pressure on their HQ keeps the right safe.

Sorry about the double post
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
repost, quoting yourself? que?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew McGrady
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmb
@Steve: Good catch about the Wayfarers only getting White dice in my planned attack against the Incarna. I confused their Ambush ability with Marksmanship.

@ Linoleum I like your plan!

@Jeff: I would like to attack on our left also but using the 7-Swords will only get us 2 Attacks because almost all our units over there are Castles. 2CP for an Assault order +1 for off-suit means each attack is costing us 3 CP. I can't justify using our most powerful Swords card to only get 2 Attacks out of it.

You're rightly concerned about the Right attack plan putting our HQ in danger. I'm willing to do it because the Sibyl can use 2 Fallbacks and Red doesn't have anything to cancel that. Also we'll tie up the Incarna with out Reavers hopefully damaging it further in the process.



Having said all of the above I'd like to admit that I've only played 1 game so far so my thoughts should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm hoping to get another game or two in over the weekend...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Note the Reavers are quite effective against Incarna in impeding terrain. They hit first with two blue dice. Fury can force a push -- but the Incarna can Standfast to counter it. The Incarna's counter-attack is only 2B, due to the impeding effect, and the Reavers can use Take Cover to mitigate a single hit.

All in all, it's a fairly cost-effective attack, both in terms of CP, as well as unit glory loss risk.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Paul
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
@andrew. Excellent point on not wasting CPs on off-suit attacks. However, that's why I used ranged attacks - that also stops the battle back. Total, three attacks.

And, I'll admit, I've played zero games. But these twisters are getting me ready.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew McGrady
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmb
If I'm not mistaken I think making a Ranged Attack still requires an Assault Order costing 2 CP plus the 1 for being off-suit. Steve, would you like to settle this question for us?

I'm really liking the Twisters as well. I think they're interesting in general and a good idea to build a community around the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Paul
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sdebaun wrote:
Note the Reavers are quite effective against Incarna in impeding terrain. They hit first with two blue dice. Fury can force a push -- but the Incarna can Standfast to counter it. The Incarna's counter-attack is only 2B, due to the impeding effect, and the Reavers can use Take Cover to mitigate a single hit.

All in all, it's a fairly cost-effective attack, both in terms of CP, as well as unit glory loss risk.


Hmm, you're still giving the Incarna a free 2B attack. And they're heavies, so they'll probably win that exchange.

As well, take cover means you've got to retreat. Which means you'll have to spend an extra CP to assault again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron S
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
I don't remember what I ate last night
badge
but I can spout off obscure rules to all sorts of game like nobody's business!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andymcgrady wrote:
If I'm not mistaken I think making a Ranged Attack still requires an Assault Order costing 2 CP plus the 1 for being off-suit. Steve, would you like to settle this question for us?


Any off-suit assault, ranged or close combat, will cost 3 CP.

Personally, I think Blue blundered here by making all three of her right flank units in Towers, it really limits the effectiveness of the flank when Swords are played.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron S
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
I don't remember what I ate last night
badge
but I can spout off obscure rules to all sorts of game like nobody's business!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TnT! wrote:
As well, take cover means you've got to retreat. Which means you'll have to spend an extra CP to assault again.


It seems like you're misinterpreting rules here somewhat. Any assault costs 2CP (+1 off-suit), regardless of whether you walk first or not. So if you're only retreating one hex, the cost to move that one hex and assault would be no different for most units (there are a couple without a walk speed) compared to being already in place and attacking.

Also, units can battle back versus ranged attacks as long as they a) have a ranged attack, b) the original attacker is within their range, and c) they're not engaged with another unit.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Paul
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yup, been "playing" that wrong. I thought it was

Move = 1CP
Attack = 1CP
Move and Attack = 2CP

But, that is wrong. Surprised no one else picked that up on my previous entries...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew McGrady
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmb
^^^ It's a pretty new game so were all learning it.

From looking at previous posts I think Byron perhaps has significant experience with the game. Were you a playtester?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron S
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
I don't remember what I ate last night
badge
but I can spout off obscure rules to all sorts of game like nobody's business!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andymcgrady wrote:
From looking at previous posts I think Byron perhaps has significant experience with the game. Were you a playtester?


Yes, I've been playing this game pretty much as long as it's been around in one form or another, which is something like 3 years now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron S
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
I don't remember what I ate last night
badge
but I can spout off obscure rules to all sorts of game like nobody's business!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Linoleumblownaparte wrote:
The graphic design of this game is great, I love how all the information is there on the units.

It's definitely something that has evolved and improved a lot since the beginning. At one major playtest it was almost comical how much time was wasted by players having to constantly and repeatedly refer to the unit list to see what abilities each of the different units had.

Linoleumblownaparte wrote:
I see a similar forced move here. A silver order is tempting because Blue's position is so good on the left flank: Red's Incarna is the only unit willing to stand and fight. However, a silver order would allow Red next turn to order his Incarna on the right to attack the center Amazon, with overwhelming odds to push the Amazon off the Capture Point. In dense terrain, with Tough hit points and with Blue's main forces far away, that Capture Point would be lost for good.

Blue really has to pin or engage the Incarna this turn, and that means a gold order.


I agree with your conclusion, but not for the same reasons. The real danger that the Incarna poses isn't to the middle cap point. While it's important to keep your opponent of the points, it's even more useful to get their units off the board or at least out of the fight. Left alone to freely assault on its next turn, it has a good chance (~30%) to either outright murder the Wayfarers for a 6 point gain, or significantly damage the Reavers and leave them against the back wall. (It would be tempting, but dangerous, for Red to attack the Reavers and follow up to pin them against the wall. If they did this, Blue would probably cut off the Incarna's lines of retreat with the Wayfarers and Sibyl, leaving it in significant danger as it cannot disengage.)

I also think that the left flank deserves more consideration than you give it, since it is Red's HQ which occupies the point. Left as it is, Red is losing 1 point per turn, while Blue loses 3. Given Red's initial Glory advantage, leaving the Red HQ on the cap point for long is suicide. The danger the Incarna poses is probably the more important immediate threat to deal with, but something must be done quickly on the left or the game is effectively lost.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Folks, don't forget to spend some thumbs on posts in this thread so I can pick the fan choice winner for this week!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
And the new T3 is up!
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15562153
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve DeBaun
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Repost for T3 readers:

I'm hoping to have enough time next week to put together another T3.

I'd love to run one with armies that YOU have built. I'll be scrounging through the most popular builds on the new www.arsvictor.com army builder, looking for candidates. Go build an army so I have something to T3 with!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.