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Subject: Double Deck (Starlight and Nap) rss

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Ken Dilloo
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Hey all,

Just wanted to see if anyone was playing around with a double event heavy runner deck, complete with Power Nap (PN) and Starlight Crusade Funding (SCF)? Wanted to talk out some ideas, to see if it is viable yet. I slapped together a deck, very haphazardly, before a game night with my main runner in crime.

I simply looked at all the double events, decided that the most influence I wanted to use was in criminal, so made a Gabe deck. While it was amazingly fun to throw out SCF then play several strong doubles, I failed to include Aesop's, so spent several brutal turns without any doubles, and three clicks. I was also able to play 2 Power Naps (as singles) for 9 and 10 credits each....not bad. I didn't include any economy besides Lucky Find (LF), Siphon, and Power Nap (PN), and Gamble. Seemed like I wasn't really hurting for cash too often, at all.

Some serious limitations are the number of doubles in each faction, and the fact that LF costs 2. This mainly leads to the problem of importing breakers in criminal, along with other doubles like PN. At some point I was hoping my opponent would kill SCF, but being a resource, you don't really want it killed with a fist full of doubles. Being able to turn it off, with Aesop's, is important, but then you are also spending influence there, outside Shaper. Having Aesop's, makes me want to include Wyldeside, but that is more influence.

So, maybe this kind of deck would be best in shaper, because of their breakers? Playing with Gabe and Sneakdoor, I didn't find much need for breakers, considering Running Interference and Inside Jobs. Wonder if Running Interference, Inside Job, Blackmail, Sneakdoor, Shutdown type deck could run almost breaker-less, or near so?

Anyway, sorry for the ramble. Any thoughts would be appreciated. This feels like it could almost be a thing, but maybe a few more doubles, in faction, would make it?
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Captain Frisk
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bigloo33 wrote:
Hey all,

Just wanted to see if anyone was playing around with a double event heavy runner deck, complete with Power Nap (PN) and Starlight Crusade Funding (SCF)? Wanted to talk out some ideas, to see if it is viable yet. I slapped together a deck, very haphazardly, before a game night with my main runner in crime.

I simply looked at all the double events, decided that the most influence I wanted to use was in criminal, so made a Gabe deck. While it was amazingly fun to throw out SCF then play several strong doubles, I failed to include Aesop's, so spent several brutal turns without any doubles, and three clicks. I was also able to play 2 Power Naps (as singles) for 9 and 10 credits each....not bad. I didn't include any economy besides Lucky Find (LF), Siphon, and Power Nap (PN), and Gamble. Seemed like I wasn't really hurting for cash too often, at all.

Some serious limitations are the number of doubles in each faction, and the fact that LF costs 2. This mainly leads to the problem of importing breakers in criminal, along with other doubles like PN. At some point I was hoping my opponent would kill SCF, but being a resource, you don't really want it killed with a fist full of doubles. Being able to turn it off, with Aesop's, is important, but then you are also spending influence there, outside Shaper. Having Aesop's, makes me want to include Wyldeside, but that is more influence.

So, maybe this kind of deck would be best in shaper, because of their breakers? Playing with Gabe and Sneakdoor, I didn't find much need for breakers, considering Running Interference and Inside Jobs. Wonder if Running Interference, Inside Job, Blackmail, Sneakdoor, Shutdown type deck could run almost breaker-less, or near so?

Anyway, sorry for the ramble. Any thoughts would be appreciated. This feels like it could almost be a thing, but maybe a few more doubles, in faction, would make it?


I haven't yet tried a double heavy deck - right now I think the FFG list is probably close to the most reasonable version because of the reasons that you specify (need for influence on pawnshop and powernap), although you can hostage for your pawnshop if you want.

However, I did see the power of Lucky Find (a card I wrote off as too expensive influence wise) in Anarch. That burst of econ is not trivial at all - even without any starlight shenanigans.
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Ken Dilloo
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Ah, shows how quickly I threw that deck together, I forgot I could hostage Aesop. I was even looking for connections to hostage!
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Lucky Find is great, besides the influence. Kind of like playing two Easy Marks. Falls into that same weird, card-slot math as Green and Blue Level Clearance.

Think I might try a light Breaker Gabe with Faerie, Knight and Shutdown. Might find some room for Krakens too. Could be a thing with my namesake, Mr Express.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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If there were more good doubles and they didnt all cost you influence, then you could do something good with this.

Get at least 2 doubles in hand and go:
Starlight
Hostage for Aesops
Some Double
Maybe another double if youre lucky.

Then pawn the Starlight. If you can play 2 doubles with it, the net result is that you turn a card into a click and $2. If you play 3, you turn a card into 2 clicks and $2. Thats good, but its a big combo and you have to get it all in your hand to use it, and the doubles have to be worth playing.

Unfortunately, the doubles all cost influence. If you are shaper, you have to pay for Hostages and Lucky Finds. As Criminal, you pay for Lucky Finds, Power Naps, and the Pawnshop. As Anarch you pay for everything else but at least you get Queen's Gambit. Which is tricky to play.

Another good neutral, 0 influence double and maybe there is a deck there, but right now you just cant get enough of them and it gobbles all your influence.

One nice part of the combo is that Hostage fetches Aesops.
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Ken Dilloo
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Thanks Alex. Kind of the same conclusion I was reaching, although I want to play with it more. Feels like putting together a Prof deck. Sure I want programs (or doubles), but don't just want to throw them in there for the sake of it. A deeper pool, per faction, or neutrals would make this more workable, for sure; not to mention the influence.

So ready for some Honor and Profit!
 
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Steven Tu
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Basically, stop looking now guys, they're building for a strategy that *may* be viable in the future, this cycle was just a cocktease, just like Stealth, just like NEXT ICE, just like Trace Snakes (ok kidding), just like Caissas (I BET there's gonna be more coming)

Unless you just wanna have fun, in which case yay go for it
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John Fanjoy
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I think if they release a Double version of Diesel/Quality Time, that would help a lot. 5 cards for 0 credits + 2 actions would probably be a bit too nuts, so maybe 5 cards for 1 credit + 2 actions.
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Captain Frisk
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Alexfrog wrote:
If there were more good doubles and they didnt all cost you influence, then you could do something good with this.

Get at least 2 doubles in hand and go:
Starlight
Hostage for Aesops
Some Double
Maybe another double if youre lucky.

Then pawn the Starlight. If you can play 2 doubles with it, the next result is that you turn a card into a click and $2. If you play 3, you turn a card into 2 clicks and $2. Thats good, but its a big combo and you have to get it all in your hand to use it, and the doubles have to be worth playing.

Unfortunately, the doubles all cost influence. If you are shaper, you have to pay for Hostages and Lucky Finds. As Criminal, you pay for Lucky Finds, Power Naps, and the Pawnshop. As Anarch you pay for everything else but at least you get Queen's Gambit. Which is tricky to play.

Another good neutral, 0 influence double and maybe there is a deck there, but right now you just cant get enough of them and it gobbles all your influence.


I just tried a variant of the FFG one on netrunner db and did a bunch of sample draws and it sucked every time.

You can't play starlight without the hostage (or pawnshop pre-installed), which then basically puts you in combo hunting mode.

What this deck really needs is a double that draws cards as its primary function.

Diesel Heist

Event: Double
Cost: 1
Draw 5 cards
Shaper: 2 influence.

We thought we were robbing a payroll truck, but it turned out to be nothing but 30 cases of diesel.

If you had this card, you could conceivably leave the starlight in play, because Diesel Heist would help you find more doubles to play, and as long as you're playing 2 per turn, you're ok.

Edit: NINJA'd
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Ken Dilloo
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Tuism wrote:
Basically, stop looking now guys, they're building for a strategy that *may* be viable in the future, this cycle was just a cocktease, just like Stealth, just like NEXT ICE, just like Trace Snakes (ok kidding), just like Caissas (I BET there's gonna be more coming)

Unless you just wanna have fun, in which case yay go for it


Damn, better come up with a cleaver name and post my first slapped together deck, so I can one day be as famous as you guys. It could work too, if only people could have that long a memory!!
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Yeah, we need something like:


For 0 influence, to make this work.
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John Fanjoy
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Alexfrog wrote:
Yeah, we need something like:


For 0 influence, to make this work.

I think I would play that 3x in all decks at 0 influence, so I doubt it would be printed like that.
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Thomas R
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To the original question:

I've been casually testing an Anarch doubles deck without Starlight Crusade Funding with some success. Even in games where I'm playing ten doubles, I don't feel like I'm particularly click-starved, so I'm not sure how valuable the Starlight really is. I'm playing Wyldside with no way to turn it off to deal with the fact that there's no good draw solution, so I'm already down a click anyway. Here are my observations so far:

Power Nap makes Frame Job surprisingly good. Frame Job, if you're going to use it, needs to be used as early as possible, which means you want it as a 3-of. But it's also a card which you're very rarely going to play multiple times during a game. Power Nap means that you can just throw the later ones away for a future benefit. Ditto for situational cards like Queen's Gambit (which is awful against Weyland). It also makes the "drawing too many cards" bit of Wyldside into an upside. Suddenly you want to chuck some number of doubles into your heap, so drawing too much is a good thing.

This plan synergizes well with Retrieval Run (which is kind of duh, but still...)

The deck isn't actually that good yet. In theory, I'd like to be running 15 doubles that are at least situationally good, but I didn't play a single Singularity in half a dozen games. I mean, landing a Power Nap for 14 credits is awesome in the late game, but having any number of cards in your deck that you're just going to throw away isn't exactly good deck building. A hypothetical card-draw double could go a long way toward changing this, though.
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Roberta Yang
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Alexfrog wrote:
Yeah, we need something like:


For 0 influence, to make this work.

The corp got it instead; that's pretty much Blue Level Clearance.
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Ken Dilloo
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Thanks Thomas, very interesting. I love the idea of of Frame Nob with Power Nap. Good stuff.
 
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anathomical wrote:
To the original question:

I've been casually testing an Anarch doubles deck without Starlight Crusade Funding with some success. Even in games where I'm playing ten doubles, I don't feel like I'm particularly click-starved, so I'm not sure how valuable the Starlight really is. I'm playing Wyldside with no way to turn it off to deal with the fact that there's no good draw solution, so I'm already down a click anyway. Here are my observations so far:

Power Nap makes Frame Job surprisingly good. Frame Job, if you're going to use it, needs to be used as early as possible, which means you want it as a 3-of. But it's also a card which you're very rarely going to play multiple times during a game. Power Nap means that you can just throw the later ones away for a future benefit. Ditto for situational cards like Queen's Gambit (which is awful against Weyland). It also makes the "drawing too many cards" bit of Wyldside into an upside. Suddenly you want to chuck some number of doubles into your heap, so drawing too much is a good thing.

This plan synergizes well with Retrieval Run (which is kind of duh, but still...)

The deck isn't actually that good yet. In theory, I'd like to be running 15 doubles that are at least situationally good, but I didn't play a single Singularity in half a dozen games. I mean, landing a Power Nap for 14 credits is awesome in the late game, but having any number of cards in your deck that you're just going to throw away isn't exactly good deck building. A hypothetical card-draw double could go a long way toward changing this, though.


Does the deck self-tag right now? Maybe through Vamp or Joshua B. for example? If so, Lawyer Up wouldn't be a total waste. Assuming you could find influence for it, it gives you a little extra draw power and gives you more Power Nap fuel (which in turn increases your Vamp potential).
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Thomas R
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
anathomical wrote:
To the original question:

I've been casually testing an Anarch doubles deck without Starlight Crusade Funding with some success. Even in games where I'm playing ten doubles, I don't feel like I'm particularly click-starved, so I'm not sure how valuable the Starlight really is. I'm playing Wyldside with no way to turn it off to deal with the fact that there's no good draw solution, so I'm already down a click anyway. Here are my observations so far:

Power Nap makes Frame Job surprisingly good. Frame Job, if you're going to use it, needs to be used as early as possible, which means you want it as a 3-of. But it's also a card which you're very rarely going to play multiple times during a game. Power Nap means that you can just throw the later ones away for a future benefit. Ditto for situational cards like Queen's Gambit (which is awful against Weyland). It also makes the "drawing too many cards" bit of Wyldside into an upside. Suddenly you want to chuck some number of doubles into your heap, so drawing too much is a good thing.

This plan synergizes well with Retrieval Run (which is kind of duh, but still...)

The deck isn't actually that good yet. In theory, I'd like to be running 15 doubles that are at least situationally good, but I didn't play a single Singularity in half a dozen games. I mean, landing a Power Nap for 14 credits is awesome in the late game, but having any number of cards in your deck that you're just going to throw away isn't exactly good deck building. A hypothetical card-draw double could go a long way toward changing this, though.


Does the deck self-tag right now? Maybe through Vamp or Joshua B. for example? If so, Lawyer Up wouldn't be a total waste. Assuming you could find influence for it, it gives you a little extra draw power and gives you more Power Nap fuel (which in turn increases your Vamp potential).


I was actually looking into that as an option. I happen to LOVE Vamp. Like, a ton. I play it in a lot of decks. But it didn't really feel like it fit here. So I took a look at Joshua B., but I haven't really given it a real shot. I feel like removing only one tag might not be worth playing Lawyer Up, and accumulating two with Joshua B. probably means you should just take an infinite number. Though maybe if I were playing Starlight Crusade Funding that would be different? I'm not really sure. As I said, I haven't really done any testing with it yet, but my initial thoughts are that it's not quite there yet...
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Ken Dilloo
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Since we are heading that way, I have been thinking that Fall Guy could make a Frame Job/DLR/Joshua B deck way more viable. As much as I am not sure full on mill decks would be good, maybe in concert with some of this double shenanigans?

I guess the question of the minute is, would big draw make SCF more palatable as a leave on the table resource? Hmm....lots to play with.....
 
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Benjamin White
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bigloo33 wrote:
Thanks Thomas, very interesting. I love the idea of of Frame Nob with Power Nap. Good stuff.


I've nothing constructive to add, but this typo made me chuckle. Because I'm apparently a 12 year old British child.
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Ken Dilloo
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No honey, I didn't do anything. My nob was framed!
 
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