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Subject: Will FFG make an expansion for an expansion? rss

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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I know FFG makes their expansions only require the base game of whatever product it is, and it's a pretty good business decision IMHO, but with the release of Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition) – Shadow of Nerekhall, I wonder if FFG will ever make an expansion for an expansion, specifically this expansion.

Nerekhall came out with a lot of great looking tiles set in a 'city scape' (cobble stone streets, market places, indoor buildings, etc). And while there are a good number of quests in the game, I'd love to see expansions use these tiles specifically. But since FFG rarely if ever makes an expansion that requires another expansion (I can only thing of two products of theirs that did this: Arkham Horror: Miskatonic Horror Expansion and Descent: Journeys in the Dark – Quest Compendium – Volume One). It would be a shame to have no more quests that use these fantastic tiles.

With 2 large box and 3 small box expansions, is it time for an expansion for the expansions?

-shnar
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Brent Mair
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I would have planned out the expansions in arcs, not as total standalone sets. I'd be happy if FFG does this, although we will see how much more I buy of the game. It is getting too unwieldy without electronic resources to organize it.
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Ben Pletcher
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I doubt they will ever expand an expansion but I am betting at some stage they will create another city expansion with cards that you can mix with these.
 
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Fantasy flight has made expansions for expansions. I case of "Tomb of Ice", a Descent 1 expansion, there are a few elements in there (cards) that are meant to be used with the "Road to Legend" expansion (and the "sea of blood" expansion that came later). The rest of the expansion can be used with vanilla Descent, though.

FFG has also published print on demand expansions for "Mansion of Madness" that relies on the buyer owning one of the expansions. These expansions are useless without the expansion they are based on.

I think FFG may publish a campaign book or something similar in which one of the possible quests uses terrain from an expansion, and that quest is just not available if the expansion isnt available in your group.
 
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M M
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With the way they're approaching the quest vault, I'm not sure if it's really necessary.
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Darren Nakamura
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Will they make a stand alone expansion in the same style as Nerekhall? Maybe. Will they make an expansion that requires Nerekhall to function? Doubtfully.

If they were to do a small box expansion using the city tile art, I'm not really sure what they would do with city Travel Event cards. They would need enough to cover a mini-campaign, at least, without access to Nerekhall itself.

That also doesn't even take into account the thematic dissonance that would come up. Shadow of Nerekhall potentially ends with the portals to the underworld (or whatever it's called) closing, so having new expansion tiles with those backs, in an unrelated expansion might not make sense (without some finagling, anyway).
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JH
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I could see — heck, I'd like to see — a POD and/or quest-only expansion in the vein of The Laboratory for Mansions of Madness (requires Forbidden Alchemy). But absent an official use for the newer tiles, the Quest Vault will let me build my own.

Maybe I'll make a "The Brothers Olliven" pre-Nerekhall quest.
 
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Zachary Mott
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It's an interesting question. I'm expecting Manor of Ravens to use City Event cards and have urban-themed tiles, but that's pure speculation on my part. I think it would be pretty easy to set the mini-campaign in a small town, with the titular Manor being just one of many locations the heroes visit. I'd be pretty disappointed if we got all those City Event cards, and we only get to use them in one setting.

To me, the bigger question is what to do with those nifty Changeling cards. I would love to be able to use them in more than just the Shadow of Nerekhall campaign.

I respect FFG's policy of making (almost) all of their expansions stand alone, but I think they could have benefited from some long-range planning in this case. If I were them, and I had to do it over, I'd break the core set into two standalone campaigns, and release the other full campaign expansions as additional standalone campaigns. That way, each of the big box sets would complement each other, and FFG could release small box expansions that build on the mechanical twists each big box introduces.

It'd be really neat to have a small box that introduces warrior and mage allies, or more contexts in which to use Changeling cards, or City Events, etc.

To actually answer your question, I hope that they do release expansions for their expansions, but I don't expect them to.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Sarcasmorator wrote:
Maybe I'll make a "The Brothers Olliven" pre-Nerekhall quest.

I'm doing that with the Farrows as a 'pre core set' quest, almost a bridge between 1st/2nd (goes into how the Farrows turned evil, utilizes conversion kit monsters). After that one, I'm torn between doing a Nerekhall quest or a Valyndra quest (I love that figure). I like the idea of stories that involve the lieutenants, particularly if it's their descent into darkness (no pun intended).

-shnar
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Paul

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While obviously I think you need to account for those that only have the base game, I also think it is a shame to not have quests that use multiple expansions.

For instance, if a new expansion has 16 quests, make 10 of them "this expansion only" and 6 of them utilizing the current expansion plus elements from some (or more) of the others.

From a business standpoint, this would also seem to make sense in that it would encourage folks to pick up those expansions they don't currently own.

My guess is that a majority of Descent fans have all of the expansions so I think they are missing out on some possibilities. (However, I don't know this for sure...sounds like a poll.)
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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badgermaniac wrote:
For instance, if a new expansion has 16 quests, make 10 of them "this expansion only" and 6 of them utilizing the current expansion plus elements from some (or more) of the others.

The way current expansions are being made, that all the quests belong to a campaign, I'm not sure this would be possible. All the quests in the campaign are either playable or not, you can't really piece-meal a set of quests that way...

-shnar
 
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shnar wrote:
I'm doing that with the Farrows as a 'pre core set' quest, almost a bridge between 1st/2nd (goes into how the Farrows turned evil, utilizes conversion kit monsters).

Sounds neat! I stalled out on a Shadow Rune prequel campaign in a similar vein a while ago (first quest has the heroes meeting Splig, second quest trying to recruit Belthir, etc.). Really need to get back to that.
 
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Frank Franco
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If they are going to do this (and I hope they do) Manor of Ravens will be where they do it, won't it?
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Bill Eaton
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There seems to be a big, active and imaginative community here - and we have the Quest Vault tools (and I see Shnar is already working on a coop module of his own).

What's stopping us designing our own multi-expansion campaigns?

But then, thinking about it - what major advantages are there to combining multiple expansions?

The obvious one that springs to mind is larger encounter areas. But is the game as is really suited to such play areas? It seems to me that Hero groups have a limited time span in which to act, after which healing resources and heroic feats are expended and the game either stagnates or tilts towards the overlord.

Also, perhaps the tactical system isn't sophisticated enough to support larger scenarios.

Greater variety and combinations in terrain are obviously a plus point, but enough of a plus point to merit the effort? I'm not sure. Especially with the number of official campaigns already out there. As a previous poster noted, lots of us own all of it, but few have played all of it. And those that have probably haven't played through every campaign multiple times.

The use of monsters from every expansion is already catered for through the use of open groups, which takes away some of the other impetus for designing new stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love Descent. It is also tempting to try my hand at designing a campaign. But with so much of the official stuff still to play and the amount of work required to make something that is worth playing - well, a different matter entirely. I think I could put together an entire rpg setting and campaign with half the time commitment.

I do have high hopes for the coop version though, largely driven by Shnar's enthusiasm for it - perhaps this is the ideal system to bring all the pieces together.
 
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JH
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I don't think a multi-expansion quest has to be big, necessarily. Huge maps may not be suited to this game, but huge maps aren't needed. You can still make quests of a size comparable to what exists now, but with a greater variety of tiles — the LotW and LoR tiles fit in with the base game pretty seamlessly and the Trollfens tiles are a nice change of pace from the usual outside areas.
 
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Tristan Raedwulf
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I said it before and ill say it again we need a Campaign book ore a series of campaign books that use existing expansions.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Sarcasmorator wrote:
shnar wrote:
I'm doing that with the Farrows as a 'pre core set' quest, almost a bridge between 1st/2nd (goes into how the Farrows turned evil, utilizes conversion kit monsters).

Sounds neat! I stalled out on a Shadow Rune prequel campaign in a similar vein a while ago (first quest has the heroes meeting Splig, second quest trying to recruit Belthir, etc.). Really need to get back to that.

Mine won't be a traditional campaign, it's a co-op quest using the new game night rules. I liked the idea of introducing lieutenants, and the Farrow's just seemed like a natural fit. The 4 monster groups will be Dark Priests, Razorwings, Skeletons Archers, and Demon Lords, trying to tie the monsters to the Farrows (Razorwings seeming good vampire fits, Skeletons for the necromancer Merrick, etc). Stage 1 will involve Eliza, Stage 2 with Merrick, and Stage 3 all 3 of them.

I'd love to something similar with other expansions and other lieutenants. The Valyndra quest would be more of a traditional dungeon crawl, nothing fancy just open doors, kill monsters, find treasure. A Nerekhall quest would have more story involved though. I need to play it a bit first though.

-shnar
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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bille wrote:
What's stopping us designing our own multi-expansion campaigns?

The biggest problem with quest vault quests is, well, they're not official. I'm rather hesitant using those quests and would just prefer something a bit more, well, official.

Quote:
But then, thinking about it - what major advantages are there to combining multiple expansions?

I don't want to see "large" missions, just I'd love to see a mix of some of the components. For example, a quest with Nerekhall tiles and Lair of the Wyrm lieutenant. Or quests that intermix the monsters, outside the 'open group'. Stories that overarch various aspects, etc.

Overall Descent has done a really good job at allowing future components usable in present/past games. For example, open monster groups and traits allows future monsters to be used in core quests. The Lieutenants can be used in any quest (previously you could never use Valyndra outside the couple quest in LotW). Future classes and heroes can be used. But one of the best updates to Descent were the tiles, and it's a shame that some of these tiles will simply never be used outside the game they came in. There are a handful of other mechanics, but that's the main one.

I'll be doing this with the co-op quests. I'll be creating a few that will required XYZ expansions. For example, the first one I'm working on requires the Conversion Kit. The next one may require LotR and LoW, depending on the map tiles I want to use.

-shnar
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Carlo Tibaldi
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Hi shnar!

Will you post your homemade quests?

Thank you. Carlo
 
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Mark Griffiths
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I'm pretty sure Battles of Westeros also has expansions that require other expansions. Or at least one expansion that requires it. But while, as others have said, I respect FFG's decision in what they do, half of me would really like to see expansions for expansions, or expansions that assume you have more than just the core set, almost like a reward for having spent so much money on the game!

But yeah, seems really doubtful it'd happen...
 
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Paul

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shnar wrote:
badgermaniac wrote:
For instance, if a new expansion has 16 quests, make 10 of them "this expansion only" and 6 of them utilizing the current expansion plus elements from some (or more) of the others.

The way current expansions are being made, that all the quests belong to a campaign, I'm not sure this would be possible. All the quests in the campaign are either playable or not, you can't really piece-meal a set of quests that way...

-shnar


Sure you could. You would have your core quest path, but there would be nothing wrong with side quests or mini quests or even "one-offs." Not every quest in an expansion needs to be one cohesive linear campaign.
 
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Beren Eoath
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It would be great to see expansions using other expansions beyond base game to play. This subject was offten mentioned by all fans of Descent so maybe someday FFG will finaly make such ones.
In 1e the only expansions that used tiles and rules from previous where Quest compendium, Road to Legend (used tiles) and Sea of Blood. If i remeber correctly every card in RtL had a symbol in which expansion you would find those tiles or something like that - I played it so long ago that it hard to remeber.
It's very unlikely that FFG will make expansions using other expansions as base but it would be nice. Especialy when You have a whole collection of expansions and the only thing You can use are heroes, classes and monsters. but we can always have hope,

Cheers
 
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Dean L
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Fingolfin1982 wrote:
Especialy when You have a whole collection of expansions and the only thing You can use are heroes, classes and monsters.

And items and travel cards, and quests in the small expansions via rumours. Indeed, the only things you can't use are relics and the tiles.

Would still be good though. And is certainly workable- Act One of Nerkhall is 'pick theee from eight'. Would hardly be the end of the world if 3-4 of those quests required content from other expansions.
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Mark Johnson
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** Edit: Sorry - missed that Mark Griffiths mentioned this earlier **

I can think of one other example:
Battles of Westeros: House Baratheon Army Expansion includes some scenarios that have units from the other expanasions.
It also includes scenarios that only require itself and the base game.

I hope they do start doing some expansions that work with existing ones, especially using the new city tiles, or creating a lieutenant that works with Overlord Basic II. (They probably should have done this with Queen Ariad instead of associating her with cursed monsters, which are mostly undead and don't really seem to be thematically consistent).
 
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I wonder if an 'open dungeon' style system in a similar vein to how the open groups are handled would be feasible? For example just give a specific important location in the quest, then pick three large tiles to create the entrance to the location or similar.
 
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