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Hegemonic» Forums » General

Subject: Why Below Rank 1000?! rss

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Martin Gallo
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Probably because there is math (counting) involved?
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James Mathe
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That (math) and maybe cause at Minion Games we like to do things a different way and our way of doing a 4x game isn't what people are used to and so they get turned off? Sometimes we confuse people with our games so we'll never get the POPULAR votes needed.

It's also a bit early. It took The Manhattan Project 2 years to finally break the top 200.

James
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Johan Haglert
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As others have said because numbers matter.

If they didn't any miniature Kickstarter would jump around in the top #100 during the first week of funding ..

(Also some designers think it's ok to rate their own designs 10 or 9.5 or whatever as long as they comment with them being the designer of the game (heck, if you designed it do you really want to play it all that much still? =P, not enough play-testing? , or maybe it make sense since it was your dream game what do I know .))
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Eric Jome
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As of this writing 1747. Compared to the number of games in the database and the growth over time, it basically is in the top 1000. When 1000 meant something... in 2004, perhaps?
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Colin Scanlan
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korxonthos wrote:
Hegemonic seems like a highly streamlined, yet deep game with plenty of confrontational elements. Why the heck is this game nowhere near the top?!

Is that really all it takes to be near the top?
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Because it only has 200 ratings. The BGG ranking algo gives weight to not only the average rating but also how many people own and have rated a given title.

With an average rating of 7.3 Hegemonic will need at least double that amount to crack the top 1000.

To crack the top 500 it would need well over 1000 ratings. Probably more like 1300-1400 since for most games the average rating dips a fair bit as the no. of ratings climbs from under 200 to over the 1000 mark.
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Oliver Kiley
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Yeah the raw number of ratings is why it isn't higher. Hopefully the ratings will remain the same or even climb a little IF the game gets into the hands of the audience. Getting more of the KS backers to rate the game would help too.

Really, the biggest benefit of the ratings is increasing visibility. The rationale that rankings have a bearing on quality is tenuous.
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Mark Bakke
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NuMystic wrote:
Because it only has 200 ratings. The BGG ranking algo gives weight to not only the average rating but also how many people own and have rated a given title.

With an average rating of 7.3 Hegemonic will need at least double that amount to crack the top 1000.

To crack the top 500 it would need well over 1000 ratings. Probably more like 1300-1400 since for most games the average rating dips a fair bit as the no. of ratings climbs from under 200 to over the 1000 mark.



Another good example is Star Trek: Attack Wing. It has an average rating of 8.19, but with only 607 ratings, its ranking comes in at #470.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Bakkster wrote:
Another good example is Star Trek: Attack Wing. It has an average rating of 8.19, but with only 607 ratings, its ranking comes in at #470.


Absolutely. Ultimately BGG rankings are a combination of both avg rating AND popularity.

I find that once a game gets past the 350 rating mark it will rarely decline very much, where as under 200 there can still be a fair amount of early adopter/KS backer bias.

It's revelatory to use the Adv. Search function and search the entire database with the only filters being 200+ ratings, no expansions, and sort by avg. rating. I've identified a TON of games of interest that way. (much to the detriment of my wallet and shelf space)

You still have to mentally filter/adjust all of the anniversary, 2nd/3rd editions, re-implementations, and ongoing series title since those exhibit the same rating inflation as expansions, but what you're left with then is a VERY different top 100 rated games than current rankings.

Excluding solitaire games the current Top 10 then is roughly:

Caverna
Twilight Struggle
Netrunner
Robinson Crusoe
Mage Wars
Terra Mystica
Through the Ages
Virgin Queen
Star Trek: Attack Wing
Agricola

A number of titles that many haven't even heard of jump to the fore then too like Star Realms, Polis: Fight for the Hegemony, along with a gazillion traditional historical war games.
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kaden sze
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PLEASE .... EVERYONE... THIS IS A GOOD GAME (AS GOOD AS TERRA MYSTICA, AGRICOLA, ECLIPSE, ETC), AND SHOULD DESERVE MORE ATTENTION. HELP PROMOTE THIS GAME TO THE RIGHT AUDIENCES, AND HOPEFULLY PUSH THE RANKING UP TO AT LEAST TOP 100. I LOVE THIS GAME!
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Sam Carroll
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anetdata wrote:
PLEASE .... EVERYONE... THIS IS A GOOD GAME (AS GOOD AS TERRA MYSTICA, AGRICOLA, ECLIPSE, ETC), AND SHOULD DESERVE MORE ATTENTION. HELP PROMOTE THIS GAME TO THE RIGHT AUDIENCES, AND HOPEFULLY PUSH THE RANKING UP TO AT LEAST TOP 100. I LOVE THIS GAME!


If I promote the game, will you stop shouting?
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Matt Shinners
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Mezmorki wrote:
Hopefully the ratings will remain the same or even climb a little IF the game gets into the hands of the audience.


This. The game looks and sounds great, and it's been on my wish list for a while. But it's expensive and in a saturated field with a number of very well-regarded games, so I think there are a good number of people who are holding back. Heck, I even got the PnP version but realized it would cost about $40 in ink to print everything out.

I'm excited to eventually get it and play it, but I think it's going to be a slower-burn than other games, especially since Eclipse was the king of 4x hype just a couple years ago, and people are still riding high on that.
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Barry Miller
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Does anyone think that Tom Vasel's less-than-stellar recommendation has any bearing?

In his video review, he recommended it as a "good" game only for a very small niche of gamers. And he emphasized, "small".

He also said that his audience would not like it.

The point is, that a lot of games released today have either an uphill climb, or an easy glide to success based on Tom's reviews.

I really got into the hobby about two years ago and thusly consider myself part of Tom's "audience". He was (is) the big kahuna of reviewers and so it was natural to start listening to him. But as my experience in the hobby has matured, it's obvious now that he speaks to a very defined spectrum of games.

Thusly there are plenty of really good games/genres/categories that fall OUTSIDE his spectrum which thusly don't get the exposure they deserve. And sometimes its hard to understand why one game falls into his spectrum while another doesn't. For instance, his audience knows he craves theme. A great thematic game on my shelf is "A Touch of Evil", by Flying Frog Games. This game incorporates theme very heavily. But Tom hasn't mentioned it. Why? So I emailed him about this very thematic game, which I was SURE he'd go for. (I also asked about, "Fortune & Glory", another game drenched with theme, by the same designer). Tom replied very quickly. As his response was addressed to me, I'll simply say that his lack of interest in the two games wasn't due entirely to the games themselves. So its not always clear-cut how he puts games into his spectrum. As a result still to this day, he's ignoring two very good games that one would think are on his list of games to talk about.

And lately he's been on a kick lambasting "non-standard" box sizes. So if it doesn't fall in line with all the other boxes on his shelf, a game better have a LOT going for it to get his nod.

This is NOT a bash Tom Vasel post - I continue to listen to him and respect his thoughts. What I'm saying though, is that as one matures in this hobby, we begin to realize that despite his incredible reach/voice, Tom's opinions are not everything. But to a lot of people - especially to very casual gamers or those new to the hobby - they are.

While keeping in mind that his audience also includes long-time gamers, rightfully or not, I fear that his comment to his audience that they won't like it, may've hurt Hegemonic.

One thing we can do is post our own experiences about this great game as comments under Tom's review.
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Oliver Kiley
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Tom's review / reaction didn't surprise me in the least. And I was dubious about even having him review it for that reason.

That said, Tom is not alone in his opinion of the game, and I think it's fair to say that it has a fairly small audience. Unfortunately, a lot of the more prominent reviews aren't in that audience, although Joel Eddy has certainly been an advocate for it.
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Colin Sham
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That's exactly what a Cylon would say!
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As someone sitting on the sidelines thinking about buying the game, it's been a problem for me that the game's MSRP gives it (even with internet discounters) major competition. It's right up there with Amerigo, Terra Mystica, Robinson Crusoe... etc. The only hotness off-hand that I can think of that are more expensive are Caverna, Nations, and of course, Eclipse.

Admittedly I'm not comparing it against its genre and that's unfair, but as everyone agrees, that's a niche. I'm simply comparing it against the hotness.

There's just a lot of games, many higher rated, that are less expensive. When you consider the competition... there's just always another option that's cheaper and just as enjoyable. And if that attitude spreads, you'll never get the avalanche effect you need.

I know pricing is out of everyone's control, but I figured I'd pitch in as a prospective buyer.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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korxonthos wrote:
Fun is subjective. I have played a good number of the so-called top 100 games and I don't enjoy some of them.


Indeed. I'm always interested in trying the new hotness, but if I only bought games using that kind of blind adherence to the flavor of the month I wouldn't own many of my most cherished and heavily played games.

I could care less if something is higher rated or cheaper if it's not a good fit for my preferred tastes, group, player counts, etc.

Hegemonic hit the top of my must buy list for being a meaty interactive strategy game that scales reasonably well across the full spectrum of it's supported 2-6 players.

There are precious few games in the entire hobby that accomplish this, and I'm always on the hunt for those few that do.
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