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Subject: Experiences with and suggestions for fighting the Borg... rss

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Steve Smith
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This is not meant to be a complaint thread but instead a thread dedicated to those who do not wish to be assimilated.

I'm hoping that people will do three things in this thread:

1. Talk about their experiences both fighting the Borg and fighting as the Borg.

2. Offer tricks and suggestions to those trying to deal with the Borg.

3. Feel free to express wishful sentiments about what should have been with the Borg.

For #3, what I mean is this: I wish the Borg only had range 1-2. Why? Because they have an extremely powerful 360 degree firing arc and 360 degree movement option with absolutely zero disadvantage to offset those two exceedingly incredible advantages. The Borg Sphere has about the same cost as the Dominion Battleship which is limited to a 90 degree firing arc and can only go forward (whether straight, bank, or turn - it's still forward). You can get behind a Battleship - you can't get behind a Borg Sphere!

As for #1 and #2, I'll post my video batreps ASAP and offer what I can, but so far, it looks like resistance (and this game) really is futile.
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Jonathan Bruce
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I do not wish to be assimilated.
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Will Sanchez
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Borg spheres are extremely powerful and newbie friendly (for the player). I'm experimenting with counters now, but it's not looking good. I think the faction mixing crowd will have a slightly easier time of it, but alot of faction pure builds will probably be defenestrated.

Fighting against the borg - they have low defense so if you get them in your arc at all, hopefully attrition can do the work. You need 360 arcs (or close to it) of your own though (Dorsal Weapons Array anyone?).

Fighting as the borg - Transwarp drive is magnificent on these babies. 4 straight, oh wait, that'll bump? make it 6 and now I'm behind you. (obv you have to be able to eyeball when a 4 will bump without measuring).

180 arcs are not too shabby. Good defense dice will be good too. I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea. They also have the speed to get away once they enemy gets behind them. Nistrim raider is also pretty good with keeping them in arc, if only they had better damage.

I agree borg 360 arc should have been 1-2. Give them a forward firing arc as well and let them shoot like stations. once in the main arc and once in the 360 (at reduced dice).
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Xander Fulton
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delta_angelfire wrote:
I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea.


FYI: cloaking-anything-but-Klingons-and-Romulans is a terrible idea vs the Borg.

Unless you want to start playing against a cloaked Borg fleet?

Your cloaking device + assimilation tubules = Borg's cloaking device. Shields up, shields down, cloaked, doesn't matter - they just take your tech and start using it.

About the only thing *worse* is when you are running a faction-pure event, and a Borg ship manages to kidnap Scottie...and by 'manages to', of course, I mean "merely enters range of a ship carrying Scottie"...
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Noah Sager
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XanderF wrote:
delta_angelfire wrote:
I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea.


FYI: cloaking-anything-but-Klingons-and-Romulans is a terrible idea vs the Borg.

Unless you want to start playing against a cloaked Borg fleet?

Your cloaking device + assimilation tubules = Borg's cloaking device. Shields up, shields down, cloaked, doesn't matter - they just take your tech and start using it.

About the only thing *worse* is when you are running a faction-pure event, and a Borg ship manages to kidnap Scottie...and by 'manages to', of course, I mean "merely enters range of a ship carrying Scottie"...


Hence why I think we’ll see the return of 3-ship Klingon + Captain builds.
 
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Xander Fulton
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RequiemX wrote:
XanderF wrote:
delta_angelfire wrote:
I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea.


FYI: cloaking-anything-but-Klingons-and-Romulans is a terrible idea vs the Borg.

Unless you want to start playing against a cloaked Borg fleet?

Your cloaking device + assimilation tubules = Borg's cloaking device. Shields up, shields down, cloaked, doesn't matter - they just take your tech and start using it.

About the only thing *worse* is when you are running a faction-pure event, and a Borg ship manages to kidnap Scottie...and by 'manages to', of course, I mean "merely enters range of a ship carrying Scottie"...


Hence why I think we’ll see the return of 3-ship Klingon + Captain builds.


It's a solid counter, yup. Particularly in a 'faction pure' venue, where you can take skill 5 or 6 captains and guarantee moving/actioning AFTER the Borg - increasing your odds of sensor shifting into a position for a shot if they outmaneuver you.

Named Negh'Var + Martok-8
IKS Maht-H'A + Worf
Generic Negh'Var + Gowron

...all can sensor echo as needed, with Martok's free action to Gowron usually being his triggering of the fleet-wide buff. And all move/action after any faction-pure Borg ships, so your odds of being able to keep them in your firing arcs are sound. And nothing for the Borg to assimilate.

Of course, it's a dreadfully poor list against kitted-out Romulan or Federation fleets, so...how well you do in an OP event will depend on if you get matched up against Borg lists (you'll do alright!) or alpha-/gamma- quadrant lists (you'll be crushed!).
 
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Jesse Catron
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I wish the Borg would not of had shields but instead had more hull and some kind of adaptation mechanic. Perhaps something like each time an opponent attacks the Borg, the attacking ship (or secondary weapon) gets an adaptation token. They roll 1 (or maybe 2) less attack die for each token on subsequent attacks.

It seems that the crew was often beaming over to the Borg ship and that much of the Borg's effectiveness and flavor was how they adapted to repeated attacks. I think beaming personnel over at the risk of assimilation and/or needing to equip multiple different weapon systems would have been a more entertaining play style against the Borg. Instead we got a mega overpowered ship that kills the maneuvering aspect to the game with its super range 3 360 attack. Previous ships had their firing arcs limited below their cannon abilities for the sake of gameplay, but not the Borg; range 2 360 would definitely have been preferable.
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Will Sanchez
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XanderF wrote:
delta_angelfire wrote:
I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea.


FYI: cloaking-anything-but-Klingons-and-Romulans is a terrible idea vs the Borg.

Unless you want to start playing against a cloaked Borg fleet?

Your cloaking device + assimilation tubules = Borg's cloaking device. Shields up, shields down, cloaked, doesn't matter - they just take your tech and start using it.

About the only thing *worse* is when you are running a faction-pure event, and a Borg ship manages to kidnap Scottie...and by 'manages to', of course, I mean "merely enters range of a ship carrying Scottie"...


Uh, that's fine by me. thats minimum 46 points (probably 49) That's an action they aren't using to increase their daamge against me, they can't use it until they re-enable it, and I -remain- cloaked and still get my shots against them. 15-18 dice w battlestations against a sphere? Then what are you going to do? How will you cloak without shields?

Assimilation Tubules is not the godsend beats everything card you're making it out to be.

Klingon Romulan ships are and always have been terrible without defense modifiers because "oh look i whiffed a defense roll I'm ded". Combined with 90 degree arcs, you're gonna have awful problems come t+1 when they show up behind you.
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I think that a 1-2 limit on the 360 would have been far too much. Run a couple of matches with that restriction... it makes them just too easy to kite around the map. They also completely lose that relentless feel they have now. And it does not make any sense lore wise.
I do not think the issue is with their arc or their attack dice (you will be rolling a lot more total attack dice in an avg fleet than a borg will) it is just their movement which we need to learn how to counter with different flying.
I think this might just be a harder version of 'don't joust with klingons' where we need to learn how fly in a different type of formation.
 
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XanderF wrote:
delta_angelfire wrote:
I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea.


FYI: cloaking-anything-but-Klingons-and-Romulans is a terrible idea vs the Borg.

Unless you want to start playing against a cloaked Borg fleet?

Your cloaking device + assimilation tubules = Borg's cloaking device. Shields up, shields down, cloaked, doesn't matter - they just take your tech and start using it.

About the only thing *worse* is when you are running a faction-pure event, and a Borg ship manages to kidnap Scottie...and by 'manages to', of course, I mean "merely enters range of a ship carrying Scottie"...



Finally, the first positive remark on the power of assimilation tubules! I have commented a couple of times on this matter, but I guess Ablative armour was (is?) more 'fashionable.' Lower captain skill also helps with the tubules. Who cares if I strike last? Who owns that Interphase generator now, eh? 'Naked' ships might be the way to go, but against the Borg a 'naked' ship is just that ... naked. blush
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Xander Fulton
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bubblewrap wrote:
XanderF wrote:
delta_angelfire wrote:
I want to say cloaking Keldons are a great idea.


FYI: cloaking-anything-but-Klingons-and-Romulans is a terrible idea vs the Borg.

Unless you want to start playing against a cloaked Borg fleet?

Your cloaking device + assimilation tubules = Borg's cloaking device. Shields up, shields down, cloaked, doesn't matter - they just take your tech and start using it.

About the only thing *worse* is when you are running a faction-pure event, and a Borg ship manages to kidnap Scottie...and by 'manages to', of course, I mean "merely enters range of a ship carrying Scottie"...


Finally, the first positive remark on the power of assimilation tubules! I have commented a couple of times on this matter, but I guess Ablative armour was (is?) more 'fashionable.' Lower captain skill also helps with the tubules. Who cares if I strike last? Who owns that Interphase generator now, eh? 'Naked' ships might be the way to go, but against the Borg a 'naked' ship is just that ... naked. blush


Assimilation tubules are tricky to use, as you need to be using the Borg tactical drone to get any real value out of them (and ideally with Seven backing him up) - so they are definitely situational.

I think the reason many folks fall back to the ablative armor is that it works best when faction-mixing. With Picard on your sphere, you *have* no drones to use the assimilation tubules with, and the ablative armor is - indeed - very powerful.

My expectation is that the assimilation tubules are only really going to see a lot of use in 'faction pure' events - otherwise, why not just BUY the tech/crew/whatever upgrade you want in the first place?

Our last even was faction-pure, as it happens, and the 'ass. tubes.' (as they have become known) proved to be quite effective. (We did have a Scotty kidnapping, and the Borg promptly put him to use repairing their shields)

delta_angelfire wrote:
Uh, that's fine by me. thats minimum 46 points (probably 49) That's an action they aren't using to increase their daamge against me


The most 'effective' tool they have for improving their attack is the tactical drone's re-rolls...which don't take an action to use (so you get to do the tac drone re-rolls AND use the ass. tubes. on the same round).

And, of course, the thing is Borg maneuverability means you'll be really hard-pressed to get all of those '15-18 dice with BS conversions' on-target at the same time. Borg banking around the planet one way...nope, now he's going the other way...LOL @ the Cardassian ships trying to turn around while it saddles up behind them...
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XanderF wrote:
ass. tubes.

"Ass tubes."

I approve of this abbreviation.
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Erin OConnor
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1. Shoot from long range. Basic Geometry...
2. The sphere has natively 0 agility dice. The +1 agility at range 3 really isn't going to help much.
3. More dice is better. 3 ship fleets with good attacks will be better than 2 ship builds. The more dice you put on the ship the more chances to hit. More hits means dead Borg.
4. Modified dice are better. Target locks and/or Battle stations. Making Every hit count because when you score a hit it will inflict damage.
5. More ships (3) generally means that the Borg will have to chew threw more shields and hull. There are plenty of ways of negating and reducing damage from attacks.
6. 6 dice attacks are nothing new (see also Dominion Battleship.)
7. If you play faction pure...I am sorry for you. As stated multiple multiple multiple times now the game was designed with cross faction in mind.

Now that I look at it fighting the Borg is just like fighting any other faction...


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Xander Fulton
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Echo2Omega wrote:
3. More dice is better. 3 ship fleets with good attacks will be better than 2 ship builds. The more dice you put on the ship the more chances to hit. More hits means dead Borg.


Which is fine if you know every opponent you will face will be Borg. What happens if you run into a cloaking fleet with defensive re-rolls, and you have to land 4 or 5 hits to do *A* point of damage? Suddenly, the swarm fails.

Echo2Omega wrote:
6. 6 dice attacks are nothing new (see also Dominion Battleship.)


That...couldn't possibly be further from the truth. A 6-attack, limited to a 90 degree arc, on a *boat* of a ship that is trivial to get behind (and it can do nothing about you once you are there) is nothing like a 6-attack in a 360-arc on the most maneuverable ship in the game.

Echo2Omega wrote:
7. If you play faction pure...I am sorry for you.


And, again, I'd say from experience that the exact opposite of this is true. *At the moment*, anyway - this may change with more releases, but I'm not sure of that.

Currently, faction-mixing benefits the Borg far more than it hurts them, as it gets them access to abilities and conversions they can't otherwise get.

Compare the tactical drone they already have released vs Captain Worf + Drex (obviously, the latter is more expensive, but it represents an ability the Borg cannot get natively...BS conversions and "free" re-rolls). And their feedback pulse they received is impressive...kinda...but it's also staggeringly expensive, drops an aux token on the ship, and more often than not results in no real damage back to the attacker (so it's effectively a flat-out worse trade than the interphase generator).

Of course, speaking of that - unless you allow faction mixing, the Borg cannot cloak. If you DO allow it...LOL, good luck killing them!

This might change with time, as noted - more releases are certainly coming - but given the flavor of what we are seeing so far, I'm skeptical. I think it will remain true that the Borg benefit the most from faction-mixing, as WizKids seems to be limiting the type of things their ships can do (not nearly enough to balance how massively underpriced they are, but it's a consideration).

Echo2Omega wrote:
As stated multiple multiple multiple times now the game was designed with cross faction in mind.


Kinda yes/kinda no. Andrew noted that the testing they did when he was lead designer did, indeed, have faction-mixing in mind.

We don't know what Christopher (who did the work on the Borg) has designed around.

Echo2Omega wrote:
Now that I look at it fighting the Borg is just like fighting any other faction...


Well, get back to us once you've tried it. I think you'll be surprised - the Borg really do play completely differently from other factions.
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XanderF wrote:


And, of course, the thing is Borg maneuverability means you'll be really hard-pressed to get all of those '15-18 dice with BS conversions' on-target at the same time. Borg banking around the planet one way...nope, now he's going the other way...LOL @ the Cardassian ships trying to turn around while it saddles up behind them...


I'm sorry, are you on crack? Have you actually played against borg with a 180 degree firing arc? or Dorsal Weapons Arrays? Getting all three of those shots in the first round of engagement is DEAD EASY, it's at t+1 you starthaving problems. Oh wait, I staggered my ships so they're not all pointing the same direction? Tactics! If you're going to make wild claims at least have some evidence to back it up. As it is any decent player who's at least trying to beat the borg as opposed to just yelling broken has more valauble insight than this.
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docvulcan wrote:
I think that a 1-2 limit on the 360 would have been far too much. Run a couple of matches with that restriction... it makes them just too easy to kite around the map. They also completely lose that relentless feel they have now. And it does not make any sense lore wise.
I do not think the issue is with their arc or their attack dice (you will be rolling a lot more total attack dice in an avg fleet than a borg will) it is just their movement which we need to learn how to counter with different flying.
I think this might just be a harder version of 'don't joust with klingons' where we need to learn how fly in a different type of formation.

Far too much?

From the designer himself "Another early discussion involved firing arcs. Since the Starter Set included the Enterprise-D, we knew that we could not simply have 90˚ forward firing arcs on every ship. While many ships would have traditional 90˚ forward firing arcs, the Enterprise-D would need to have the ability to fire 360˚ while still remaining a balanced ship, so we gave the ship the option to fire in any direction at a more limited range and with one less attack die. There was also evidence of ships (like the Enterprise-D) firing torpedoes and other weapons out of rear firing arcs, and so we had to be mindful of this when balancing the capabilities of each ship as well."

It seemed to be a reasonable approach to the Ent-D. Alternatively, they could have kept it range 3 but at a reduced effectiveness. I think the issue is more than just their movement: it's the movement coupled with a very high 360 attack (not to mention the misguided point formula for ships).

You can avoid jousting with Klingons by avoiding their 90 arc, not sure how to avoid a 360. I do admire your determination to find a solution but I'm starting to think resistance really is futile. I will be happy to be proven wrong.
 
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Christopher Gass
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I had decent luck with a faction pure Klingon fleet.
Negh'var with Martok-8, Klingon Boarding Party, Flagship
Koraga with Gowron, Projected Stasis Field
Use projected stasis field to lower the sphere's shields and then Klingon Boarding Party to disable Ablative Armor, Assimilation Tubules, etc. Use Martok to enable Gowron's action and then attack the sphere with a 7 die attack from the Negh'var. Trick is getting your maneuvers right.
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XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
3. More dice is better. 3 ship fleets with good attacks will be better than 2 ship builds. The more dice you put on the ship the more chances to hit. More hits means dead Borg.


Which is fine if you know every opponent you will face will be Borg. What happens if you run into a cloaking fleet with defensive re-rolls, and you have to land 4 or 5 hits to do *A* point of damage? Suddenly, the swarm fails.


Since when is 3 ships a swarm?

XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
6. 6 dice attacks are nothing new (see also Dominion Battleship.)


That...couldn't possibly be further from the truth. A 6-attack, limited to a 90 degree arc, on a *boat* of a ship that is trivial to get behind (and it can do nothing about you once you are there) is nothing like a 6-attack in a 360-arc on the most maneuverable ship in the game.


Surviving an attack from 6 dice attack is still nothing new. Remember BoF and the 10+ dice that come with that? Or how about the 3 ship Klingon that roll 7+ dice with every attack from every ship every turn (With Target locks and/or Battle stations)?

XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
7. If you play faction pure...I am sorry for you.


And, again, I'd say from experience that the exact opposite of this is true. *At the moment*, anyway - this may change with more releases, but I'm not sure of that.

Currently, faction-mixing benefits the Borg far more than it hurts them, as it gets them access to abilities and conversions they can't otherwise get.

Compare the tactical drone they already have released vs Captain Worf + Drex (obviously, the latter is more expensive, but it represents an ability the Borg cannot get natively...BS conversions and "free" re-rolls). And their feedback pulse they received is impressive...kinda...but it's also staggeringly expensive, drops an aux token on the ship, and more often than not results in no real damage back to the attacker (so it's effectively a flat-out worse trade than the interphase generator).

Of course, speaking of that - unless you allow faction mixing, the Borg cannot cloak. If you DO allow it...LOL, good luck killing them!

This might change with time, as noted - more releases are certainly coming - but given the flavor of what we are seeing so far, I'm skeptical. I think it will remain true that the Borg benefit the most from faction-mixing, as WizKids seems to be limiting the type of things their ships can do (not nearly enough to balance how massively underpriced they are, but it's a consideration).


Claoking is 10+ points to get on the Borg Sphere. They get +4 defense dice for the cloak. Taking ablative armors to mitigate critical hits? That's fine but when it is all said and done you have pretty much put all of your eggs in 1 basket.

Cross faction benefits ALL of the factions.

XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
As stated multiple multiple multiple times now the game was designed with cross faction in mind.


Kinda yes/kinda no. Andrew noted that the testing they did when he was lead designer did, indeed, have faction-mixing in mind.

We don't know what Christopher (who did the work on the Borg) has designed around.


Kinda yes. The post is there for everyone to read. (and sorry for reviving old and done arguments)

XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
Now that I look at it fighting the Borg is just like fighting any other faction...


Well, get back to us once you've tried it. I think you'll be surprised - the Borg really do play completely differently from other factions.


I have done it hence the recommendations.

My #1 was probably the most important. The further out you attack from the wider the triangle is that makes up your killbox. (or Killsector if you want to be technical). 180 degree arcs really shine.

1 more defense die really wont make much difference for the Sphere. (Even with cloaking) 5 defense dice =/= 5 evade results.

The sphere has some really funky movement to it. When you get close it can be really easy for the sphere to move "sideways" and get out of one of your firing arcs. The real trick is though is that the Sphere moves like a rook (or bishop) from chess. That's it. They are locked in on those lines and you can plot your attacks accordingly. They are really funky with movement on a 22.5 degree angle that's for sure.
 
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delta_angelfire wrote:
XanderF wrote:


And, of course, the thing is Borg maneuverability means you'll be really hard-pressed to get all of those '15-18 dice with BS conversions' on-target at the same time. Borg banking around the planet one way...nope, now he's going the other way...LOL @ the Cardassian ships trying to turn around while it saddles up behind them...


I'm sorry, are you on crack? Have you actually played against borg with a 180 degree firing arc? or Dorsal Weapons Arrays? Getting all three of those shots in the first round of engagement is DEAD EASY, it's at t+1 you starthaving problems. Oh wait, I staggered my ships so they're not all pointing the same direction? Tactics! If you're going to make wild claims at least have some evidence to back it up. As it is any decent player who's at least trying to beat the borg as opposed to just yelling broken has more valauble insight than this.


You *do* play with terrain, right?

Like, the planet in the middle of the map, that prevents everything you are talking about? The Borg just hide behind the planet, feinting one way or the next, until you commit to a turn (or split your forces), at which point, they just go around it the other way and cut your fleet apart from behind.

You can't get a front-shot at them unless they want you to. OR you are playing with no terrain, I suppose.

Echo2Omega wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
As stated multiple multiple multiple times now the game was designed with cross faction in mind.


Kinda yes/kinda no. Andrew noted that the testing they did when he was lead designer did, indeed, have faction-mixing in mind.

We don't know what Christopher (who did the work on the Borg) has designed around.


Kinda yes. The post is there for everyone to read. (and sorry for reviving old and done arguments)


Not quite sure what you are trying to say.

Andrew said he designed with faction-mixing in mind, and that he did not design the Borg, but Chris did.

We do not know whether Chris designs with faction-mixing in mind or not.
 
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XanderF wrote:
You *do* play with terrain, right?

Like, the planet in the middle of the map, that prevents everything you are talking about? The Borg just hide behind the planet, feinting one way or the next, until you commit to a turn (or split your forces), at which point, they just go around it the other way and cut your fleet apart from behind.

You can't get a front-shot at them unless they want you to. OR you are playing with no terrain, I suppose.


Ah yes. I forgot.

The Borg Sphere is the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest you use it.
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XanderF wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
As stated multiple multiple multiple times now the game was designed with cross faction in mind.
Kinda yes/kinda no. Andrew noted that the testing they did when he was lead designer did, indeed, have faction-mixing in mind.


Actually this could not be clearer. Quoting Andrew: (from this thread)

Andrew Parks wrote:
Hey, guys. I just wanted to chime in also to mention that Chris and I designed Attack Wing from the beginning with cross faction builds in mind. In fact, the first thing we said after WizKids requested the separation of Ship and Captain Cards was: "Awesome, now we'll see how Picard captains a Klingon ship." Cross faction builds always have and always will be an integral part of the game design, and in many cases is where the game's true strategic options come to life.


Also...

XanderF wrote:
We don't know what Christopher (who did the work on the Borg) has designed around.


That's a rather silly statement. Andrew and Christopher are clearly an effective and successful creative team, as evidenced by the amazing game that has excited us and gathered us here. They could not be effective and successful if they did not communicate well with each other and agree upon common design goals.
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XanderF wrote:

You *do* play with terrain, right?

Like, the planet in the middle of the map, that prevents everything you are talking about? The Borg just hide behind the planet, feinting one way or the next, until you commit to a turn (or split your forces), at which point, they just go around it the other way and cut your fleet apart from behind.


apparently more than you do. You know you can go *through* planets, right?
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fishnjeeps fishnjeeps
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I just played a few games with the borg and I have to say I'm happy with how they are set up. I would say they are balanced. I played other borg, federation, klingon and others. This was the fleet I played:
Borg sphere (38)
Borg Drone (0)
Borg sphere (38)
Borg Drone (0)
Cyrano Jones (3+1)
Federation Attack Fighters resource (20)
Total:100


I played 4 games and went 2wins and 2 losses.

Game 1 was vs another 2 sphere fleet. We were replaying the seige on AR-558 senario. however he had ablative armor installed. I was able to take his ablative armor out in the first volly. He attacked the fighters. I was able to transport tribbles to the other borg sphere on the 2nd turn and both spheres gained an extra attack and defense die. He dropped shields to transport people onto the planet and my fighters got a lucky shot and gave his sphere a warp cor breach which destroyed him. Overall this game showed us that the borg can be evenly matched against other borg. It was a really even fight.

Game 2 was against a mixed fleet. can't remember everything that was there but I lost that on and there was no borg in his fleet. We played OP month 4 rules. I had some really bad rolls this time. I think most people who are afraid of the borg don't realise how much the dice can help or hurt a fleet.

Game 3 was against a federation fleet with the excelsior, nova, and fed fighters. We played the Month 1 OP rules. Here is where the borg manuverability really shined. I was able to zip around the minefields easily and forced my oponent to go through the minefields. Here my die rolls were excellent and I was able to get 6-7 hits most attacks. The nova was lost quickly. I was able to take the excelsiors shields down and beam 6 tribbles over. I lost 1 sphere in this game to the excelsior.

Game 4 was against a mixed borg / federation fleet. We replayed the OP month 3 rules again. I lost this one badly due to poor manuvers on my part. My spheres got seperated and were picked off. I found out the hard way that the borg are not going to last a long range fight very well.

Getting up close seemed to work better and getting the extra attack die at range 1 helped. Tribbles were an interesting experiment that I would do again. the extra attack die was useful and getting a single defense die is better than no defense die. While the borg have a very different play style than anything we've seen yet, its only different not the uber ship. They can be beaten.
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charles skrobis
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To be honest, I'm happy with how species 8472 challenges them, but you really need to plan each step out, and be careful not to be out maneuvered or use too much too quickly.

As for fighting them, the borg get substantially stronger the closer you get to them. So things that tend towards long range fighting do better, cause the tractor beam and cutting beam are just killer. but I find if you can keep ranged 3 shots throughout, they're not as bad as if you charge them for a straight brawl or joust or such.

They can be out maneuvered, just not so easily in the traditional sense, and aux power based weapons and tech really help. (Positron beam stopped a 1 from taking all its actions between flagship, piccard, and normal ship, because he either gave me room so I could fire torpedoes, or he followed me and still got shot by the Voyager 360 degree arc.)

Much of what I'm seeing though is at lower point totals. (80 points, 50 points, and in between.) Hoping to try out a good 100 point fleet at some point to see how it does, because much of them comes from heavy upgrades, and that pushes them past normal points for that, so hopefully it wraps around and makes them want a support ship or have not as useful add-ons put on their ship to fill out points.
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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fishnjeeps wrote:
Getting up close seemed to work better and getting the extra attack die at range 1 helped. Tribbles were an interesting experiment that I would do again. the extra attack die was useful and getting a single defense die is better than no defense die. While the borg have a very different play style than anything we've seen yet, its only different not the uber ship. They can be beaten.


I got my 1st game versus the Borg in and I noticed the same. Range 3 is the ideal place to fight the Borg. I also mitigated the maneuverability a bit by performing a well-timed pincer attack with a bioship engaging from the south at range 3 and voyager engaging from the west just above the planet. He focused on the Bioship, so I kept Voyager at range and eventually did a 6 past the sphere and finished it with QT's out the rear arc.

I was a bit disappointed in the bioship, but it got some good licks in on the sphere and its flanking Gal'Gathong and proved enough of a threat to let Voyager do its own thing. I was playing the bioship with cards out of the box, so I could no doubt improve it with some strategic upgrades. I thought the bioship captain was basically trash, but I need some more games to make a final judgement.

I will agree with Andrew that the Borg movements are a bit predictable. I may not always guess exactly where they will be, but I definitely know where they won't be and I can exploit this area.
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