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Mage Knight Board Game: The Lost Legion Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bow of Starsdawn and Altem Mages rss

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Alison Mandible
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Since both of those abilities are ongoing (i.e. you play them once and they hold for the rest of the turn), I would say no-- otherwise this combo becomes infinite, because there's nothing to stop you from doubling the attack again once the Mages make it a Siege attack!

However, I don't know that I could make a coherent argument from just the rules about how this should work one way or the other. Ongoing effects are a little murky.
 
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I would suggest u can, but the order matters. Each effect trigger only once. I suppose it is kind of like the scenario of spell demolish + earthquake explained in the FAQ(if my memory serves me correct): to use those 2 most effectively against fotified enemy, you should earthquake first then demolish so you get ammor deduction and removal of site fotification.
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Ben Kyo
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Forward 1, Forward 2, Forward 3... siege attack 5?
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I'm tempted to say yes after my initial reaction was no.

Since I can't find any good basis in the rules on how this should work I'd house-rule that each card's effect can only be applied once to a given attack.

So the following are possible:

Siege > x2 Ranged > Siege
Ranged > x2 Ranged > Siege
Normal > Siege > x2 Ranged
Normal > Siege

I *might* also rule that you couldn't combine the third option with the others, because it switches the order of 'application', though I don't think that necessarily applies here. Again, just a house-rule.
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Joseph Cochran
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Yeah, like everyone else I'd suggest that the ongoing ability of each card can only be applied to each attack once.
 
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George I.
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Let's have the exact text:
Altem Mages wrote:
Pay a black mana: Choose one: All attacks you play this combat become Cold Fire Attacks, or all your attacks become Siege Attacks in addition to any elements they have.
Bow of Starsdawn, Ultimate Ability wrote:
Each of your Ranged Attacks this turn is either doubled, or becomes a Siege Attack of the same element. You may also double any Siege attacks, but they become Ranged Attacks of the same element.


I would say that:

(1) Order matters. Both of them apply on any subsequent attacks and never recursively; therefore, if you don't play both of them at the same time, then any attacks in between are easily handled.

(2) When both of them are active, the Bow of Starsdawn lets you choose how you are going to handle Siege Attacks.

(3) My interpretation is that the Altem Mages' ability applies the moment you play the attack (see text). On the contrary, the Bow of Starsdawn applies after you play the attack and decide what to do with it.

Let's suppose that both Altem Mages and Bow of Starsdawn are active. I am assuming that the Altem Mages' ability applies always before the Bow (see #3). Then, during your Ranged/Siege Attack phase, you have the following choices:

i) Siege Attack: not affected by Altem Mages. You choose not to modify it with the Bow.
ii) Siege Attack: not affected by Altem Mages. You choose to make it 2x Ranged Attack.
iii) Ranged Attack: becomes Siege Attack by Altem Mages. You either double it and make it Ranged Attack or leave it as-is.
iv) Physical Melee Attack: becomes Siege Attack by Altem Mages. You either double it and make it Ranged Attack or leave it as-is.

In short: all attacks are turned into Siege Attacks. You may then choose which will remain Siege Attacks and which will be doubled, but become Ranged Attacks.

The only illegal combination, according to my interpretation, would be: play a Ranged Attack, double it with the bow and turn it into Siege Attack, because:
- It violates the Altem Mages' text. Any attack you play becomes immediately a Siege Attack, the moment you play it.
- It doesn't feel right/feels OP. Doubling all Siege Attacks?

I guess everyone would concur that both effects may be applied only once, so no infinite loops, like Attack > Siege Attack > 2x Ranged Attack > 2x Siege Attack > 4x Ranged Attack > ...
The real issues are: (i) is there a fixed order, like Altem Mages always first? (ii) can you choose the order of your preference on a per-attack basis? E.g., I play a regular Attack and apply first the Altem Mages then the Bow. I later play a Siege Attack and apply first the Bow and then the Mages.
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Gabriel Honore
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iv) : I guess you meant "melee attack" and not "physical attack"

I've wondered at this combo for some time, but couldn't find any satisfying answer. I never encountered it so far, but it might, hopefully (that would mean I got to play MK quite some more !)

I wondered as well what if I got 2 altem mages units ? sounds nice !
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George I.
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nomrefuse wrote:
iv) : I guess you meant "melee attack" and not "physical attack"
Yes, fixed!

nomrefuse wrote:
I wondered as well what if I got 2 altem mages units ? sounds nice !
I got them once. Pretty cool, I used one to get two mana tokens and the other one for his Cold-Fire Attack (or Block). It was a Volkare scenario, so no need to turn everything into Siege Attacks.
 
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