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Subject: DD overwhelming before it is incredible fun rss

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pax domina
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I Kickstarted Dungeon Dice and wondered many times (over the course of this year) if I had made a mistake by jumping on this bandwagon. Dice rolling is a weakness. This was my one and only Kickstarter adventure. I did not do the PnP version; didn't dwell on the rules; didn't try to overthink the game. I simply wanted to learn it while rolling its dice.

On Wednesday, I received my copy. As I ogled the nice dice and wondered which-in-the-heck bags to put each die into, I felt overwhelmed. As I tried to slog through the rules, I felt more overwhelmed - so much to memorize. That night, I played through a couple of two player turns solo. Twenty minutes later, I was exhausted -- this wasn't much fun constantly looking up what should be happening. Over the next two days, I got my daughter involved in playing a few turns each day. We learned a little more each day. It was still kind of tiring with my nose stuck in the rulebooks.

Today, Saturday, she and I played two full games one in the morning and one in the evening. They were fabulous! Incredibly different and fun in unexpected ways. My neurons were firing all over the place with the effects in play on each given turn! The rules do become familiar (and memorized) within a few plays. The rules, conditions, stipulations, and effects are creative and exciting. Totally worth the money spent; and I wasn't even sure I thought that when I originally invested in it on faith. I look forward to playing and learning more. We may not even be playing some of the conditions in the way in which the designers intended but I figure "Who cares?" as long as our practices are evenly applied giving each player the same benefits.

My advice if you are feeling as overwhelmed as I was, is to hang it there and play through the pain (with nose in rulebook) to the sweet reward on the other side of persistence. This is a dice roller's dream.
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Curt Carpenter
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I wish there were a rules rewrite. I can't stand the way the rules are written. I was also frustrated that the contents in the package don't even tell you where to put the KS dice. I didn't have the update handy when I played, and I had no idea what to do with some of the dice. I need to go back and try again. Thanks for the encouragement.
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Alyssa McCain
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Thank you for this post! I'm not easily overwhelmed, but having sat down with this game for the first time today I was a bit. I'm hoping to get some test run throughs done this week prior to introducing it to my husband. I agree that the rules could have been better written especially with regard to equipment and spells.

I appreciate hearing about your experience and I am excited to hear you enjoy the game! I hope to have a similar experience soon.
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Will B.
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My son and I had a similar experience. The first game we played was boring and tedious. The second go-round was much more lively and engaging. Reference sheets might be a nice thing to have at the table when playing. This game is all iconography.
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Bobby Warren
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This game definitely needs a cheat sheet for the die symbols.
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Jason Koskey
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Bobby4th wrote:
This game definitely needs a cheat sheet for the die symbols.


+1
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tim thorson
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I get mine tomorrow or the next day. Any tips?
 
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The Games Are About Glory
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Macedon
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Bobby4th wrote:
This game definitely needs a cheat sheet for the die symbols.

I think I'm going to work on that and will run it by Potluck when it's finished.
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pax domina
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thor0298 wrote:
I get mine tomorrow or the next day. Any tips?


Once you get all of your dice in the correct bags, follow along with the Quick Play Rules on the back of the Instruction Manual. I didn't even realize those were there until I was in the middle of our second full game!

Only play a couple of rounds at a time with two mock players. I recommend doing this solo so you can begin to understand the flow of each turn and then the game before you try to share it with others. This will get you started. As you roll each player's turn, carefully pay attention to each symbol in play, look each symbol up in the manual (and supplemental instructions if you have KS and add-on dice in your set), and think logically about who has it (Monster or Hero) and what in means to each owner -- this will tell you how the ability should be utilized in the game.

Like I said, only tackle a few turns at a time and you will be shocked at how much you learn with each run through. You'll eventually find the game flow to be quite logical. When you have doubt about a rule, use your best common-sense and it will all fall into place!

We let the discovery and use of abilities with each roll present themselves in a very organic way and do not worry about deploying abilities on any fixed schedule. This allows combat to feel more real-time and natural (as you realize "But, hey! I have *this* ability which counteracts what you just tried to do to me...). Well, as natural as it can feel while battling fantastical creatures!
 
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Dave Lawrence
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I see what you're saying, even though we didn't have that tedious experience to start. By and large I personally thought the instructions were decent, with only a couple of things that I couldn't find a good answer for. So in my mind, the layout could use some tweaking, but fortunately not like a wholesale reorganization and rewrite like Myth needs. (Hmm, maybe my experience with the Myth rulebook just a couple of weeks before made me a little more charitable to these rules.)

The one thing I personally thought would be really useful is to have the supplemental rolled into the main book, so that all the iconography appears in the same place rather than going for one book, not finding it there, then having to look in the other.
 
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Travis Bryant
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FrozenHoHos wrote:
Bobby4th wrote:
This game definitely needs a cheat sheet for the die symbols.

I think I'm going to work on that and will run it by Potluck when it's finished.


And perhaps the Potluck folks – if you're reading this - could post the reference guide here in the files section?
 
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Sam Coates
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I would be happy to put together something official when shipping slows down (maybe a week or two).

I plan to NOT include the full rules in the cheat sheet. For example, the sword symbol will just say "Reroll one of your dice." And the main rulebook will be used if you have a specific question on what that means.

In the mean time, I am happy to listen to specific feedback on changes we could make to improve the rulebook. For example, those of you who want a complete rewrite could list a couple things that bother you, and we will consider everything suggested for future prints.
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pax domina
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@Potluck Games:

By the way, since I started this thread, I wanted to be clear that I don't think a re-write of the rules is necessary. The rules, in fact, may be as good as they can be given the number of possible outcomes on any given roll.

The overwhelming aspect of this game is the sheer number of symbols which are utilized - brilliantly, might I add. This is just the nature of this particular brilliant beast. It is worth learning!

A cheat sheet might possibly be nice but I'm not sure how practical it would be since I would invariably need more detail that I would have to reference the rulebook(s) to clarify anyway.

The only suggested change would be to ship the game with clear immediate instructions of how to bag the dice and move the Quick Start Guide to the front of the instructional material -- just to get folks started on playing the game. It would also be a big help to have a clear instructional video (with the full production game) on BGG for reference. The original video is not bad and definitely helped me but clearly needs updating with the final ruleset.
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Sam Coates
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Payson
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Good points. Thanks for the feedback.
 
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tim thorson
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How do u know which dice go where
 
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pax domina
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thor0298 wrote:
How do u know which dice go where


General dice/bag specifications are in the Game Setup and Quick Play sections of the Instruction Manual. Yellow dice in yellow bag; blue in blue; red in red; Monsters (as well as a few others) in black bag. All the rest (considered basic dice) in green bag.

If you have any questions about where the dice should reside, look in the Instruction Manual(s) under the sections about those dice. They usually tell more clearly in which bag they belong.

Hope that helps to start you off.
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Dave Lawrence
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We only store the basic dice in the green bag. Since they do not get drawn randomly, they sit off to the side during play.
 
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Martin Gallo
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I just got my set and soloed my first game. Fun stuff (do NOT draw the Dragon as your first monster!) and I thank you for the game.

What I am still unsure of is what to do with all the big black "monster dice". I assume these are part of the KS package and they go in the (black) monster bag? I see in the supplement that the shield, sword and necromancy staff stay out (as artifacts) but what about the other four?
 
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pax domina
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Black KS Monsters go into the Black Monster bag. Necro Staff, Aegis Shield, and Vorpal Sword stay out with the Basic Dice (available to all) and then are stored in the Green bag with all the basic dice after the game.
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Donn Hardy
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South Euclid
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And the big black Pain die stays with the other spells.
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Mark Mitchell
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I really do think the 'Instruction Manual' (WTF?) should be re-written and redesigned to show examples as well as timings. They should also change it from 'Instruction Manual' to 'Rules' as every time I pick them up its like I'm going to learn how to use some electrical equipment. It really needs a better layout and more engaging design.


There are quite a few omissions in regards to effects (Like Necromancer).

Please potluck games re-write/organise/redesign the rules its such a great game.

If you don't I might have to do it myself for my own use but I will post it up.

 
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James Ludlow
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Saint Louis Park
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martimer wrote:
(do NOT draw the Dragon as your first monster!)


Can't you just flee to avoid the die entirely?
 
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