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Subject: Ace Ships used as Standard Ships for Tournament? rss

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Does anyone know whether a player can use the 2 Tie Intercepters and the A-Wing and B-Wing Aces models as standard ships in tournament play?
 
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Richard Dickson
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I'd say a model is a model. It's what cards you have on it that matter. So if you wanted to use one of the red Interceptors as Soontir Fel, I don't see why you couldn't. They allow custom re-paints in tournament play, so I don't see the difference here.
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Mike Mitchell
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Based on this from FFG - pg 4 of the "X-Wing Tournament Rules":

"Tournament Squad Pool
Legal Products
All Star Wars: X-Wing™ Miniatures Game components are legal for sanctioned play unless they are marked with the epic icon (ships with the epic icon next to the card title on the Ship card can be fielded only in Epic Play), or temporarily banned from tournament play (such as when a product is released in the midst of a tournament season)"

I'd say the Imperial Aces are in and obviously the Rebel Aces aren't because they haven't been released yet.
 
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glen.
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Imperial Aces is legal -- Rebel Aces isn't out yet, do you mean when it comes out?
 
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Richard Dickson
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I think he's talking about just the models themselves: can you use a model from the Rebel or Imperial ace set as one of the non-ace pilots. Which should be totally fine.
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From the tournament rules:

"Ship models may be painted as desired as long as the alterations are not
offensive and do not adversely affect another player’s experience. The size and shape of a ship model cannot be modified in any way."

Nothing in there about the color scheme needing to match the pilot being used.

Yes, the Royal Guard Interceptor can without question be used as any TIE Interceptor in the game. Doesn't make any difference. Don't let anyone tell you different.

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Ed Raz
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patox wrote:
Does anyone know whether a player can use the 2 Tie Intercepters and the A-Wing and B-Wing Aces models as standard ships in tournament play?


They do allow you to paint your minis. So based on that I don't think the color scheme matters. I'm not sure if FFG has specifically addressed the issue of using the red imperial guard tie interceptor model for non-imperial pilots. If they made an official statement against it I'd question why based on them allowing us to paint the models.
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Chris G
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Yes is the short of it. As long as it's the right ship type it doesn't matter what colour it is.
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Dan Dirk
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Hexis wrote:


Yes, the Royal Guard Interceptor can without question be used as any TIE Interceptor in the game. Doesn't make any difference. Don't let anyone tell you different.



Probably the best literal example... If FFG includes 2 Royal Guard cards (both pilot and title) in a pack with only one specific Royal Guard paint job then it is safe to assume any paint "version" is compatible with any pilot.
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Xander Fulton
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kryyst wrote:
Yes is the short of it. As long as it's the right ship type it doesn't matter what colour it is.


To be fair, the rules DO still contain...

Quote:
...and do not adversely affect another player’s experience.


IE., don't run Kir Kanos and Carnor Jax, putting them in your original TIE Interceptor models...alongside a pair of Saber-Squadron pilots, who you have flying two Royal Guard-colored TIE Interceptors.

That'd be kind of a dick move.
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Jon Dennis
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How is that a dick move? The bases clearly denote which is which.
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Xander Fulton
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macgowan wrote:
How is that a dick move? The bases clearly denote which is which.


Because it makes it confusing to tell at a glance what the state of the board is, and after a few hours of play, the type of 'at a glance' confusion that leads your opponents to focus instead of target lock before your fighter moves into range...because he forgot the red Interceptor halfway across the board wasn't Carnor Jax - but the regular Interceptor just outside range 1 *was*.

Particularly, if you've already GOT two Royal Guard Interceptors, and two regular Interceptors, and are taking two Royal Guard pilots and two regular pilots in your list, there is no reason to swap them around - aside, of course, from intending to cause exactly that kind of momentary-confusion.

It's along the lines of the the ancient Chess player Ruy Lopez de Segura's advice, when he suggested to "Sit across from your opponent so that the sun shines in his eyes" and "Make sure your opponent has had a full meal to make them sleepy" - not levels of confusion that will guarantee you a game, by any stretch, but the type of thing to give you an unsportsmanlike edge.
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Please- paint jobs are not confusing.

How is that any worse than 4 xwings that all look the same or telling 7 TIEs apart?

We use numbers for a reason- if someone puts painted models on it should only help regardless if they don't match the color scheme printed on the pilot card.

I will look at the squad at the start of the game and say "Okay- number 3 is "XX" and he is in the "YY" colored ship, cool- got it."
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Xander Fulton
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virferrorum wrote:
Please- paint jobs are not confusing.

How is that any worse than 4 xwings that all look the same or telling 7 TIEs apart?


Well, two things:

1) You are telling me that, in your entire history of playing - particularly in the last match of a grueling 5-hour tournament - you've never mistakenly lined up a shot on the 'wrong one' of a couple identical fighters on the board? Or even in your own fleet, removed shield tokens from the wrong fighter? With identical minis on the board, it happens - to some extent we are willing to live with that...because "it's realistic", it's usually easy to correct with no hard feelings, and because there isn't really any practical alternative (outside of EVERYTHING having unique paint job that matches the ship card art, which is...obviously impossible).

2) It's worse because identical fighters require you to look at the numbers for all of them - your mind simply has no shortcut to work from. You'll still make mistakes when playing and exhausted, but the requirement to look at the number with no visual aid otherwise helps, so its not as bad. With paintjobs, though, that MATCH the card art...you spend a whole day playing people who put Carnor Jax in a red TIE Interceptor and a Saber Squadron pilot in grey...then face someone who puts Carnor Jax in a grey Interceptor and a Saber pilot in red...you're going to find that confusing to deal with. And while 99% of the time it won't be a problem, crossing paintjobs WILL cause an issue at some point, and in any case will require additional mental work throughout the match.

As noted, I'm not saying this is a 'match winning' tactic, only that it does provide a slight advantage (as any 'camo' does - do you really think the point of it is to actually HIDE yourself? Especially naval camo? Not at all - the entire point is to cause that moment's hesitation or confusion in your enemy as he tries to sort out what he's seeing vs what he is EXPECTING to see...), there is no legitimate reason to do it (it's obviously done for a 'playing the player, not the game' reason), and so it's a "dick move".
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Jon Dennis
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1. No. I look at the bases, since they are the only thing that matters.
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Instead of the number tags, I use coloured tags. Colours are much easier and faster to process in the mind at a glance, so it really cuts down on the confusion and need to strain your neck here and there to take a good look at the number tags
 
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Davyd A
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Duraham wrote:
Instead of the number tags, I use coloured tags. Colours are much easier and faster to process in the mind at a glance, so it really cuts down on the confusion and need to strain your neck here and there to take a good look at the number tags


I actually quite like that idea. I shall have to adopt it!

As for Xander's scenario: I can't think of any reason why a player would put his named Royal Guard pilots in the "standard blue" Interceptors, and a couple of Avenger Squadron Pilots in the "royal guard red" Interceptors, other than in an effort to cause that sort of confusion. So, while it's legal, and not egregious enough to call "unsportsmanlike!" over, I personally would also be disinclined to go for beer with that chap afterwards. I'm glad your brain and eyesight cause you to track the bases, Jon, but my brain prefers bright colours and my eyesight can rarely distinguish the text on the bases, so I'd certainly have to make an effort to remember the red ones were mooks and the blue ones villains.
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Chris K.
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macgowan wrote:
1. No. I look at the bases, since they are the only thing that matters.


If that is the case, and you do actually require no conscious effort to prioritize semantic information (base texts) over plain visual information (model colour) then you have a truly special brain and I know of a few neuroscientists who would love to work with you.

The rest of us are more vulnerable to that kind of confusion since the brain generally works the other way around when confronted with dissonant information like this. The difference is minimal, but very measurable and gets more noticable with exhaustion and lowering levels of concentration as they are to be expected in a long day.
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Ed Raz
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virferrorum wrote:
Please- paint jobs are not confusing.

How is that any worse than 4 xwings that all look the same or telling 7 TIEs apart?

We use numbers for a reason- if someone puts painted models on it should only help regardless if they don't match the color scheme printed on the pilot card.

I will look at the squad at the start of the game and say "Okay- number 3 is "XX" and he is in the "YY" colored ship, cool- got it."


It's different because your deliberately putting Royal guards in non painted interceptors and regular interceptor pilots in royal guard painted minis (in the same squad). The analogy your making isn't the senario he's talking about. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. That's not the point he was trying to make.

And correct me if I'm wrong (I could be), but you only have to use numbers if the pilots are the same, not the models.

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Kyle A

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Honestly I would agree that this is not a 'dick move' at all. It is a part of the game. Yes it is a game, and yes it is supposed to be for fun. However, it is a war/battle game and if I can gain a tactical advantage by simply changing up the ships, why not. How is it my fault that you do not look at the bases? I actually never thought of this, but a tactic I may have to employ in the future. I do not think it could be considered offensive as it is the original paint job. If I were the TO of a tournament, I would not be inclined to force a player to change their ships over the colors.
 
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edrazpgh wrote:
And correct me if I'm wrong (I could be), but you only have to use numbers if the pilots are the same, not the models.

In addition to using them for telling ships apart that carry the same model, I use them for two other reasons:

1) To keep the cardboard base locked into the plastic base
2) To help with turn order (even though this takes some liberties)

So I for one always use ship numbers regardless of which actual ships are in play.
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I see both sides of the argument. I think intentional mis representation is a bad thing. If you have the models, use them in the most appropriate way.

On the other hand, I'm not going to be upset if a player only has the Imperial Aces models and is using them to represent whatever Interceptors they want to use in their list.
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Creed Buhallin
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So would it be OK to use a TIE Fighter model to stand in for Jax? Why not? If the base is all that counts and the model is irrelevant, it should be fine, right?

If all your models are the same, that's fine. If you're flying the appropriate colors, fine. If you're intentionally mixing the colors for the "wrong" pilots in order to try and confuse your opponent, then that's not OK. I'm absolutely stunned and saddened that anyone would consider it acceptable.
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Using a TIE fighter model for a TIE interceptor pilot card is against tournament rules.
 
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Xander Fulton
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patox wrote:
Using a TIE fighter model for a TIE interceptor pilot card is against tournament rules.


As is just using a base, with the miniature removed from it (at any point in the game!).

Apparently, FFG disagrees that 'the base is the only thing that matters'.
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