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Subject: best ancient ship upgrade tile? rss

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Poll: best ancient ship tile part? why?
What is the best ancient ship upgrade tile (discovery tile)? Why?
What is the best ancient ship upgrade tile (discovery tile)? Why?

  the best good ok take the 2 VPs instead
Axion computer (+3 to hit)
Conformal drive (4 moves, 2 init, 2 power)
Flux shield (-3 to be hit, 2 power)
Hypergrid source (11 power source)
Ion turret (2x1 cannon, 1 power)
Shard hull (3 hull)
      162 answers
Poll created by Hathorian
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Dan Regs
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Depends a lot on what is happening in the game.

(1) What ship parts do I already have access to? If I already have the 9 power source, I don't think the 11 source will prove too valuable.

(2) When do we find the part? Any discovery tile in the last turn or 2 has a fair chance of paying off better as 2VP than resources or ship parts.

(3) Race has some factor. If playing magellan from the expansion they get 1VP even for cashed in discoveries. Much more likely to cash in discoveries with them.
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J S
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Thanks for the votes! I'm hoping for a bit more discussion as well....

It seems like context is very important as mentioned by Dan. Some parts are better or worse early or late, what is my strategy, what do I currently have, etc.

Due to the nature of ancient ship parts (only 1 piece, can't be removed or it has to be discarded) some parts are naturally at an advantage. For example, Shard Hall would be incredible (OP even) if you could have multiples of them and add/move them at will. Most designs only have 1 power source and drive anyway so only getting one of those isn't as big of a drawback.

Pretty hard to say no to the Axion computer though....+3 to hit and no power requirement. That is pretty nice.
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Starkiller
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I lean toward keeping every ship part, unless I have strong reasons against it. My theory:
You're saving a 'upgrade' action, along with getting a super-ship part.

I think about it harder if it's closer to the end of the game. Partly because (of course) you get less benefit out of it, but mostly because I can see better what my opponents are teching toward.

I had a game with very few computer techs-and drew the flux shield. I took that as VP.

Usually, though, I take them as ship parts.
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Chris V.
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The expansion has a Jump Drive that is IMHO the single best upgrade in the late game. Stick it on your interceptors in concert with a Fusion or Tachyon Drive, and you can lay waste to planets.
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Radoslaw Polanski
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Why we are missing Muon Source, Ion Disruptor, Jump Drive, Morph Shield? C'mon guys?

Honestly speaking nothing was more annoying than well placed morph shield. Plus, Moun Source provides just enought power (with no space cost!) to create even tougher builds of ships. If I was asked to grade them, this will be the order:

Morph Shield - shileds+regeneration+initiative, no cost apart from space=awesome
Moun Source = 2 energy + initiative, no cost what so ever
Conformal Drive = best drives in the game. This is good for all small ships, not mentioning that some races are having even more benefits from this part

Above three are must have, I never exchanged them in the early or mid game for VP

Flux Shield - best shields in the game, very good reason to consider taking this, although depends on players builds
Hypergrid Source - good source in the beginning of the game, although you have only one, if you are planning to ride with med-ships, worth taking
Ion Disruptor - very good boost to initiative plus single dmg cannon, no cost. In late game you will probably replace with better guns, but till the mid-game will do the job
Axion Computer - good computer, although no initiative. Fact that it is costless (energy) makes it good. But when you will have enought energy, you will replace for 2 Positron computers or 1 Gluon

Above are worth considering, although you will have to think about how you will use them during the game...

Ion Turret - cool, but in early game you will get plasmas, and later on even better guns, strictly pointless
Jump Drive - very situational. Worm-Hole generation tech is of course better, but expensive. Never saw this part to make a game, and in fact I never kept it
Shard Hull - again, for only couple tech points you can have Improved Hulls. 2 VP are more valuable than additional 1 shard on only one ship part (and on one type)

All above, in 99.9% of our games were instantly exchanged by all the players for 2 VPs.
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Peter Bakija
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Rynvord wrote:
Why we are missing Muon Source, Ion Disruptor, Jump Drive, Morph Shield? C'mon guys?


'Cause this is the base game discussion forum. And if I have learned anything about BGG, it is full of people who are incredibly obsessive/compulsive in regards to what you discuss in what forum.

Quote:
Ion Turret - cool, but in early game you will get plasmas, and later on even better guns, strictly pointless


I'll defend Ion Turret as a really good gun to put on your interceptor if you find it. A pile of interceptors with Ion Turrets, a computer, a power source and a good engine can be remarkably scary. I mean, yeah, ok, a plasma canon does 2 damage and an Ion Turret does 2 damage max, so it isn't a *huge* difference, but still, it is a pretty solid place to put the Ion Turret.
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Riku Riekkinen
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Ion Turret is much better than plasma cannon.

1) It takes 1 energy less (sometimes crucial)
2) You don't have to research for it (=save your research early)
3) If you got plasma cannon / antimatter cannon its value goes up... nearly to double plasma cannon. Why? Because you can spread the hits the way you want. So if enemy has no hull ion turret is obviously as good as 2xplasma cannon / antimatter cannon. If your enemy has improved hull, just do 1hit / enemy ship with ion turret (which should be large ship like dread) & wait for the rest of the guns / your fleet to finish off the enemy fleet.

It was hugely popular in our group before RotA and still is good (also sychs with Point Defense). I don't think that Ion Turret is obsoleted before one gets Antimatter Cannon + Splitter (which is of course rare and only one can get it). And still its only 1 energy compared to 4...
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Starkiller
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That one less power requirement for Ion Turret is the first thing that tells me how good it is.
When you realize it is essentially a plasma cannon that can be split-targeted, the true awesomeness shows through!surprise

The only real disadvantage is the inability to put it on more than one ship.

I had one game where I was able to avoid getting Plasma Cannon the whole game because I picked up Ion Turret. There were a ton of Antimatter Cannon techs right from the beginning, so:

I put the Ion turret on my Cruisers;
built almost exclusively Cruisers most of the game;
left my Interceptors lame the whole game;
and got Antimatter Cannons on my Dreadnoughts, for the last couple rounds.

I didn't win, but I think it was a very sound strategy. Saved some science and upgrade actions.
Situationally dependent, of course.

I like outfitting my cruisers:
Base Nuclear power source-provides 3p
Ion Turret -cost 1p
Positron computer-cost 1p
Base Nuclear drive-cost 1p
And last two slots are Improved Hull & Plasma Missile, or both of either - depending on game.

This set up only costs 1 and 1/2 upgrade actions, and 2 or 3 Techs. (Depending on if I have both IH & PM.)

Sure, I'd like to have cruisers with the Tachyon source and loaded for bear but this is a very decent cruiser for very few actions.
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Starkiller
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I'm a little surprised at the love for Axion Computer. Yeah, it's a great computer for no power, but it doesn't have initiative. IMHO, I'd frequently prefer +2 computer with initiative.

That, and computers are so important that all ships need their computers upgraded, and you can only put the Axion computer on one ship blueprint. So, you will always need to buy another computer tech anyway.

That being said, whenever I get it I take a really good look at my ship builds. I might put it on a ship that is at max power and I'm reasonably happy with it's blueprint. That way I don't have to spend any actions to upgrade it, for the rest of the game.

Conformal drive is just awesome.

I think Hypergrid Source is very tech-dependent. If I can get the +6 power source, I'll think about putting Hypergrid on Dreadnought and saving myself the science and upgrades by not getting the +9 source.
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Starkiller
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Rynvord wrote:
Why we are missing Muon Source, Ion Disruptor, Jump Drive, Morph Shield? C'mon guys?

Honestly speaking nothing was more annoying than well placed morph shield. Plus, Moun Source provides just enought power (with no space cost!) to create even tougher builds of ships. If I was asked to grade them, this will be the order:

Morph Shield - shileds+regeneration+initiative, no cost apart from space=awesome
Moun Source = 2 energy + initiative, no cost what so ever
Conformal Drive = best drives in the game. This is good for all small ships, not mentioning that some races are having even more benefits from this part

Above three are must have, I never exchanged them in the early or mid game for VP

Flux Shield - best shields in the game, very good reason to consider taking this, although depends on players builds
Hypergrid Source - good source in the beginning of the game, although you have only one, if you are planning to ride with med-ships, worth taking
Ion Disruptor - very good boost to initiative plus single dmg cannon, no cost. In late game you will probably replace with better guns, but till the mid-game will do the job
Axion Computer - good computer, although no initiative. Fact that it is costless (energy) makes it good. But when you will have enought energy, you will replace for 2 Positron computers or 1 Gluon

Above are worth considering, although you will have to think about how you will use them during the game...

Ion Turret - cool, but in early game you will get plasmas, and later on even better guns, strictly pointless
Jump Drive - very situational. Worm-Hole generation tech is of course better, but expensive. Never saw this part to make a game, and in fact I never kept it
Shard Hull - again, for only couple tech points you can have Improved Hulls. 2 VP are more valuable than additional 1 shard on only one ship part (and on one type)

All above, in 99.9% of our games were instantly exchanged by all the players for 2 VPs.

I must be playing quite a bit different from your group. I never feel like I'm sure to get the better cannons or power sources or whatever. Not to mention you act like you always have the science and actions available...
I'm always struggling to conserve actions and pounce on techs when I have enough science, but that's me.
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Starkiller
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I seem to have taken over this thread, but whatever!

A comment on the Shard Hull....not a lot of love, and I can see why--at first glance.

Plasma & Antimatter Cannons both do equal points of damage. So, against these two cannons, Having a Shard Hull & Improved Hull is no better than having 2 Improved Hulls. (It takes 2 hits of AC, and 3 hits PC, either way.)

So, Shard Hull is really only good for soaking of an extra Ion Cannon hit. Since Ion Cannons tend to fade away past mid-point of the game, this makes Shard Hulls mostly useless...

BUT.

Here is how I use them....
(Please note, Improved Hull is one of the very best techs in the game. I'm not saying don't get it. This is a way to use Shard Hull effectively, especially if you can't get Improved Hull.)

First, note that Dreadnoughts start with two basic hulls.
Cover up one of those hulls with the Shard Hull and you get 4 total damage points-just as much as two IH without spending an upgrade action.wow
If you don't buy IH, you just saved yourself some science and a research action.
Of course, this means you can't upgrade any other ships with IH.
Hummmm....what famous build doesn't use much hull?whistle
Plasma Missiles!laugh

So, if you find the Shard Hull, you can have a couple balanced DN with a support fleet of multiple missile-spitting IN, CL, & SB.

Now, why would you want to do this instead of taking the 2 VP & IH? After all, IH isn't that expensive.

Well, what if you can't? If you have lots of actions (unlikely to pass first) and the IH aren't there, this can prove invaluable.

And, if you're planning on going heavy missiles anyway, this can save you a couple actions and some science.

Spending the game without IH usually sucks. This actually works!
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Aaron Bevan
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I think Axiom is rating so high because it has the biggest effect on the game when found in the first 3 turns.

Ion Turret is great early game but you pretty much need plasma cannons anyway

Flux Shield and Conformal Drive don't help much early

Shard Hull can be used early game but competes with Improved hull which is relatively easy to get.

Hypergrid source again does not do much early game as you don't have expensive energy needs.
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