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Subject: What the $#@% does 'optional' mean? rss

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Jake Nyiri
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So Im interpreting the entirety of the Brigands deck one of two ways.

Optional: shadows/Shadows Reach (or whatever) :means text after the colon can be done if you do it with these other cards. Which makes no sense since its usually the only text on the card (example:Unseen Ally).
Yes, I said 'sense since'. Maybe the first period is the designator where the optional text stops? But then still half the Brigands cards are really Optional:If you don't have the option, this card is useless and lets you spend an AP to not be Loitering.


Or this text means you can do the card as an action immediatley after the optional card and thus break the one-action-per-HC rule. Which breaks the one-action-per-HC rule.

I have made it to my second tile in my eight hour solo attempt of using the base games first Story Quest. Rule Not In The Rulebook # 735

Im actually trying to figure out if theres any rules IN the rulebook Ive used, since I haven't done a single action, card, move, setup, token, placement, or plan in this game without going through endless forums and laughing (constantly) at the fact that the first official FAQ has to answer the question 'how do I do a basic attack with a basic group of minions against a basic character?' and STILL doesn't answer any of my questions about movement. Basic movement.
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JR Wr
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Myth, optional : rulebook.
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Charlie Theel
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The point of the optional:shadows means you get to roll the 2FD from the Shadow Action cards.

Typically this is great when using a dagger because it lets you stay in Shadows after attacking.
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Jarad Bond
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I don't play the Brigand, because the wording on his cards are a broken mess. But I follow a lot of threads here and on Megacon Games. You can't get from point A to point B by reading the wording of "Optional".

I may be over-simplifying things, but I /think/ that the only reason for Optional on the Brigand is to allow you gain more Shadows bonuses. There are two cases:

1. Optional: Shadows, means you can gain your Combo: bonus listed on the shadow card (+2FD or some such whoop)

2. Optional: Another Card, means that you play that other card first, which is probably an attack. Normally, that would break your shadows, but this allows you to "stay-in-shadows" and gain your (+2 FD) bonus for the second attack as well.

I don't know if you are supposed to complete your entire "optionalcombo" before activating darkness, but for simplicity sake, go ahead and finish your combo. It will save your sanity.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Jake Nyiri
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ropya wrote:
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Myth, optional : rulebook.


Word, bump, and nuff said.
 
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Jake Nyiri
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charlest wrote:
The point of the optional:shadows means you get to roll the 2FD from the Shadow Action cards.

Typically this is great when using a dagger because it lets you stay in Shadows after attacking.


Whats a dagger? Ive never seen a dagger. Im still on the second tile of the first quest and haven't done a single ANYTHING by using the 'rulebook'. But this does lead to a question I was gonna post somewhere else about whether or not you can use FD results on equipment you didn't use in the attack (since someone said somewhere you have to use specific equipment to attack, even tho the rulebook says you add the dice from your equipment and thats all it says.)

Im going to take these awesome components and make my own game. One that works. Their game sucks.
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Jake Nyiri
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logris wrote:
I don't play the Brigand, because the wording on his cards are a broken mess. But I follow a lot of threads here and on Megacon Games. You can't get from point A to point B by reading the wording of "Optional".

I may be over-simplifying things, but I /think/ that the only reason for Optional on the Brigand is to allow you gain more Shadows bonuses. There are two cases:

1. Optional: Shadows, means you can gain your Combo: bonus listed on the shadow card (+2FD or some such whoop)

2. Optional: Another Card, means that you play that other card first, which is probably an attack. Normally, that would break your shadows, but this allows you to "stay-in-shadows" and gain your (+2 FD) bonus for the second attack as well.

I don't know if you are supposed to complete your entire "optionalcombo" before activating darkness, but for simplicity sake, go ahead and finish your combo. It will save your sanity.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.


You have completely saved my sanity. Although you also are now messing with my head, cuz I thought only a successful ENEMY attack broke shadows. As in, if you're in shadows, and you manage to slit someones throat, nobody else sees you. But you DO realize if you don't play the brigand, one of the two monsters included in the base set (Crawlers) can completely slaughter your entire party from poison if you ever roll a 1 on a 1d6, which you'll be rolling several of every turn? Just in case you hadn't noticed.
 
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Jarad Bond
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JakeNyiri wrote:
You have completely saved my sanity. Although you also are now messing with my head, cuz I thought only a successful ENEMY attack broke shadows. As in, if you're in shadows, and you manage to slit someones throat, nobody else sees you. But you DO realize if you don't play the brigand, one of the two monsters included in the base set (Crawlers) can completely slaughter your entire party from poison if you ever roll a 1 on a 1d6, which you'll be rolling several of every turn? Just in case you hadn't noticed.

Your own attacks break shadows. That should be in the rulebook, but I won't bank on it, as you well know. If it is in the rulebook, you'd likely have to hunt for it, because the shadows rules are shotgunned throughout. For example, moving more than cautious also breaks shadows. That one is listed when they talk about Normal vs. Cautious move. Enemies can break shadows when adjacent at the START of the Darkness activation. That one is buried in some paragraph in the middle of enemy movement. Enemy attacks don't break shadows because you'd already have to be noticed. An enemy AOE theoretically could hurt you without breaking shadows.

Acolyte can save you from poison. 1 serendipity also summons Three Dunes merchant who sells anti-venom potions.

Do one trap, get some treasure, then summon Three Dunes. 1.5 tiles into your first act of any adventure (if the trap doesn't kill you) and you can have a couple anti-venom potions. Just in case you hadn't noticed.

Edit: Must have remembered something wrong. I thought Three Dunes sold poison cures. The strategy is less sound, since I doubt you'd keep up with healing potions. So, Acolyte is required equipment, as usual (or houserule to spend a serendipity to clear an effect)
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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FYI

If you're trying to learn the game, the Brigand is literally the last Hero you should start with....of no fault of your own. It's just the messiest, worst explained Hero.
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Patrick Leacock
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JakeNyiri wrote:
But you DO realize if you don't play the brigand, one of the two monsters included in the base set (Crawlers) can completely slaughter your entire party from poison if you ever roll a 1 on a 1d6, which you'll be rolling several of every turn? Just in case you hadn't noticed.

I assume you mean the 6-sided Fate Dice. For the Crawlers poison you only roll the Fate Dice if they get a successful hit. If 6 Crawlers make an attack, you roll 6 D10s, but if 2 of those hit then you only roll 2 Fate Dice not 6 dice (to see if they get a Darkness symbol). So the poison status does not happen very often.
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Jarad Bond
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It's pretty hit or miss. Funny thing is that my group of 3p once got the quest where you had to get poisoned. I stopped playing any defense cards with the Soldier for 3 tiles, trying to get a crawler to hit me and poison. I got hit here and there, but we couldn't, for the life of us, get poisoned. A captain spawned once, but missed one of the requisite hits to poison and our archer got a little over-zealous and killed it. We were tired of prolonging it by that point and eventually failed the quest.
 
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Josh Strickland
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mfaulk80 wrote:
FYI

If you're trying to learn the game, the Brigand is literally the last Hero you should start with....of no fault of your own. It's just the messiest, worst explained Hero.


Quoted for truth. Don't try to learn with him. Soldier -> Acoloyte -> Archer -> Apprentice ---------> Brigand is the way to go.
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Jake Nyiri
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logris wrote:
JakeNyiri wrote:
You have completely saved my sanity. Although you also are now messing with my head, cuz I thought only a successful ENEMY attack broke shadows. As in, if you're in shadows, and you manage to slit someones throat, nobody else sees you. But you DO realize if you don't play the brigand, one of the two monsters included in the base set (Crawlers) can completely slaughter your entire party from poison if you ever roll a 1 on a 1d6, which you'll be rolling several of every turn? Just in case you hadn't noticed.

Your own attacks break shadows. That should be in the rulebook, but I won't bank on it, as you well know. If it is in the rulebook, you'd likely have to hunt for it, because the shadows rules are shotgunned throughout. For example, moving more than cautious also breaks shadows. That one is listed when they talk about Normal vs. Cautious move. Enemies can break shadows when adjacent at the START of the Darkness activation. That one is buried in some paragraph in the middle of enemy movement. Enemy attacks don't break shadows because you'd already have to be noticed. An enemy AOE theoretically could hurt you without breaking shadows.

Acolyte can save you from poison. 1 serendipity also summons Three Dunes merchant who sells anti-venom potions.

Do one trap, get some treasure, then summon Three Dunes. 1.5 tiles into your first act of any adventure (if the trap doesn't kill you) and you can have a couple anti-venom potions. Just in case you hadn't noticed.



I had actually noticed that Three-Dunes sells Vitality and Focus potions and then random green treasure draws. Not anti-venom potions. Summoned him twice, no anti-venom potion yet. But did buy the vitality potions each time! (I CAN only buy ONE of each thing....right...?Oh God, please don't make me check the rulebook...)

I thought the whole point of the notice roll was that only enemies who are adjacent to the Brigand at the start of the Darkness Cycle can check to Notice him. If they automatically break Shadows, whats a notice check then?
 
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Jake Nyiri
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Asderiphel wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
FYI

If you're trying to learn the game, the Brigand is literally the last Hero you should start with....of no fault of your own. It's just the messiest, worst explained Hero.


Quoted for truth. Don't try to learn with him. Soldier -> Acoloyte -> Archer -> Apprentice ---------> Brigand is the way to go.


Well hopefully by the time I make it through this Act with the Brigand I'll know all the basics and nobody else can be harder to learn!

except....i have this funny feeling...
 
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Shakka
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Notice checks:

From the rulebook (in the Brigand chapter):

The Darkness can’t target the Brigand for an attack unless they start out adjacent to him when they activate. The target number to Notice the Brigand is based off the type of Shadows card he has in play.

From the official FAQ (in the Brigand part):

When do notice checks occur? What happens if the Brigand is noticed?
Monsters make notice checks if they are adjacent to the Brigand at the Darkness Cycle and he is in Shadows. If the notice check succeeds, Shadows is immediately canceled and the Brigand can be targeted by attacks.



Optional:

From the rulebook (in the Brigand Chapter):

If a card is noted as being Optional, it means that the present card may be played after the Optional card if the Brigand chooses.


From the official FAQ (in the Brigand part):

When the Brigand performs a successful attack he is removed from Shadows. Cards played that say optional Shadows retain the Shadows combo bonus throughout the entire chain of attacks.





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Jarad Bond
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JakeNyiri wrote:

I had actually noticed that Three-Dunes sells Vitality and Focus potions and then random green treasure draws. Not anti-venom potions. Summoned him twice, no anti-venom potion yet. But did buy the vitality potions each time! (I CAN only buy ONE of each thing....right...?Oh God, please don't make me check the rulebook...)


Yeah, I saw that too after playing again this evening. I could have sworn he sold all the potions. Anyway, I haven't given him any limits on how many potions you can buy. I figure he's like your friendly drug dealer and can take care of all your potion needs.

Quote:
I thought the whole point of the notice roll was that only enemies who are adjacent to the Brigand at the start of the Darkness Cycle can check to Notice him. If they automatically break Shadows, whats a notice check then?


You're right. They don't automatically break Shadows. Enemies adjacent at the start must roll to notice you. But you break your own shadows if you attack. Or move too fast.
 
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Cracky McCracken
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JakeNyiri wrote:

Im going to take these awesome components and make my own game. One that works. Their game sucks.


That's a great idea! It's been done with other games. Conquest of the Empire is one, there are two completely differing games and rulebooks using the same board and components.
 
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JakeNyiri wrote:
logris wrote:
I don't play the Brigand, because the wording on his cards are a broken mess. But I follow a lot of threads here and on Megacon Games. You can't get from point A to point B by reading the wording of "Optional".

I may be over-simplifying things, but I /think/ that the only reason for Optional on the Brigand is to allow you gain more Shadows bonuses. There are two cases:

1. Optional: Shadows, means you can gain your Combo: bonus listed on the shadow card (+2FD or some such whoop)

2. Optional: Another Card, means that you play that other card first, which is probably an attack. Normally, that would break your shadows, but this allows you to "stay-in-shadows" and gain your (+2 FD) bonus for the second attack as well.

I don't know if you are supposed to complete your entire "optionalcombo" before activating darkness, but for simplicity sake, go ahead and finish your combo. It will save your sanity.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.


You have completely saved my sanity. Although you also are now messing with my head, cuz I thought only a successful ENEMY attack broke shadows. As in, if you're in shadows, and you manage to slit someones throat, nobody else sees you. But you DO realize if you don't play the brigand, one of the two monsters included in the base set (Crawlers) can completely slaughter your entire party from poison if you ever roll a 1 on a 1d6, which you'll be rolling several of every turn? Just in case you hadn't noticed.



Just throwing this out there. The answer to your question was answered by Shakka from the rule book.
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Shakalaka wrote:
Notice checks:

From the rulebook (in the Brigand chapter):

The Darkness can’t target the Brigand for an attack unless they start out adjacent to him when they activate. The target number to Notice the Brigand is based off the type of Shadows card he has in play.

From the official FAQ (in the Brigand part):

When do notice checks occur? What happens if the Brigand is noticed?
Monsters make notice checks if they are adjacent to the Brigand at the Darkness Cycle and he is in Shadows. If the notice check succeeds, Shadows is immediately canceled and the Brigand can be targeted by attacks.



Optional:

From the rulebook (in the Brigand Chapter):

If a card is noted as being Optional, it means that the present card may be played after the Optional card if the Brigand chooses.


From the official FAQ (in the Brigand part):

When the Brigand performs a successful attack he is removed from Shadows. Cards played that say optional Shadows retain the Shadows combo bonus throughout the entire chain of attacks.






What rule would otherwise prevent these bonuses from happening? The fact that they used the word "optional" when they probably should have used "chain" or "combo" is just mind boggeling.
 
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