Boian Spasov
Bulgaria
Sofia
We are the knights who say...
Ni!
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http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1939961/eldritch-horror-forsaken-loreSample cards by FFG
How do you interpret the sea encounter shown in the top right card of the sample above? By flavor it seems like the last sentence would apply only if you got the clue (you've heard the stories and you are fearful), but since it is a separate sentence, not preceded by "if you pass" or "if you got the clue", I lean towards applying it always, even when the investigator didn't get the clue in the last check.
Didn't we had a precedent in the base set for similar encounter wording?
Sorry for asking a rules question about a product that is not yet released, I guess can't wait to play it 
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Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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blizzardb wrote: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1939961/eldritch-horror-forsaken-loreSample cards by FFGHow do you interpret the sea encounter shown in the top right card of the sample above? By flavor it seems like the last sentence would apply only if you got the clue (you've heard the stories and you are fearful), but since it is a separate sentence, not preceded by "if you pass" or "if you got the clue", I lean towards applying it always, even when the investigator didn't get the clue in the last check. Didn't we had a precedent in the base set for similar encounter wording? Sorry for asking a rules question about a product that is not yet released, I guess can't wait to play it
I think it always applies. I'm pretty sure there are similar examples in the base game.
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Kelly N.
United States
Richmond
Texas
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At first, I agreed with the "always" case.
But after re-reading it, it seems clear that the fear you suffer is a result of him telling you (for hours) how snakes are drawn to objects of power (your artifact). He only told you all this because you "passed" the test, and gained the clue.
Otherwise, he will only tell you about his suffering a cobra bite. This would have no connection to whether or not you had an artifact.
That is the way we will play it.
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Todd Warnken
United States
Harrison
Ohio
I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.
Happy grandfather!!!
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sabbat00 wrote: At first, I agreed with the "always" case.
But after re-reading it, it seems clear that the fear you suffer is a result of him telling you (for hours) how snakes are drawn to objects of power (your artifact). He only told you all this because you "passed" the test, and gained the clue.
Otherwise, he will only tell you about his suffering a cobra bite. This would have no connection to whether or not you had an artifact.
That is the way we will play it.
I agree with this interpretation.
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Bert McCloud
United Kingdom
Berkshire
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Mundane wrote: sabbat00 wrote: At first, I agreed with the "always" case.
But after re-reading it, it seems clear that the fear you suffer is a result of him telling you (for hours) how snakes are drawn to objects of power (your artifact). He only told you all this because you "passed" the test, and gained the clue.
Otherwise, he will only tell you about his suffering a cobra bite. This would have no connection to whether or not you had an artifact.
That is the way we will play it. I agree with this interpretation.
Exactly as written. This is not correct. Because it is a separate sentence it is irrelevant of the pass or fail; that is the case with other things.
BUT it is thematically appropriate for it to be the other way around. I'm conflicted about it. I would like to assume it should have been a comma or semi-colon but it's difficult to know if it's a typo or not without confirmation on its intention.
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Joshua Wilson
United States
Bangor
ME
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The guy suffered a cobra bite and can now sense magic. You have a magical artifact. Whether you talk to him or not you're not, you're sure he knows about your magical doodad. How do you know he's not going to come for it? Is he going to turn into a minion of Yig? Are there other snakes or snake bite victims on board?
Seems to me, you would be pretty paranoid one way or another, trapped on a boat with this guy in the middle of the ocean. So you would always get the paranoid condition if you have am artifact during this encounter.
If you DO talk to him, you also find out that snakes are attracted to powerful objects. You know to follow if you find a lot of snakes moving somewhere, or if snakes are following you. Now you know they will be able to spot you like a beacon. So you have a very useful clue, and one that points out the danger your in, holding onto this thing.
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J Kaemmer
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
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I believe that there is a precedent somewhere- that anything after a semicolon is conditional or separate from the rest of the card. Therefore, I would read this as only if you pass do you continue reading, and therefore the other effects will not come to pass. I'll get back to you with a source if I can.
Edit: after rereading, I see there are two semi's and I'm dumb. Second, The all powerful reference book states that when resolving tests "any effect after the period or part of a new paragraph, is independent from previous effects."
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Richard
United States
San Diego
California
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Step 1. Test (hands-1). If you pass, gain a clue.
Step 2. If you have an artifact, lose 1 Sanity and take a Paranoia Condition.
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sabbat00 wrote: At first, I agreed with the "always" case.
But after re-reading it, it seems clear that the fear you suffer is a result of him telling you (for hours) how snakes are drawn to objects of power (your artifact). He only told you all this because you "passed" the test, and gained the clue.
Otherwise, he will only tell you about his suffering a cobra bite. This would have no connection to whether or not you had an artifact.
That is the way we will play it.
+1
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Rob Wrigley
United States
New York
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In Visual Basic:
Sub Sea_Encounter()
If Roll(Influence - 1) = Success Then
Clues = Clues +1
End If
If Artifact_Count > 0 then
Sanity = Sanity -1
CurrentPlayer.AddCondition(Paranoia)
End If
End Sub
I'm starting to feel the entire game should be written like this. Or LogLang.
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Boian Spasov
Bulgaria
Sofia
We are the knights who say...
Ni!
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Opionions seem to be divided on this one. Personally, I decided to ignore the flavor and go with the literal interpretation that the negative effect is independent of the gaining of the clue. Mainly because of this:
Reference Guide wrote: Any effect after the period
or part of a new paragraph, is independent from previous effects.
Thanks, J Kaemmer!
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Zsolt Farkas
Hungary
Gyömrő
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In my opinion:
Sub Sea_Encounter()
If Roll(Influence - 1) = Success Then
Clues = Clues +1
If Artifact_Count > 0 then
Sanity = Sanity -1
CurrentPlayer.AddCondition(Paranoia)
End If
End If
End Sub
robwrigley wrote: In Visual Basic:
Sub Sea_Encounter()
If Roll(Influence - 1) = Success Then
Clues = Clues +1
End If
If Artifact_Count > 0 then
Sanity = Sanity -1
CurrentPlayer.AddCondition(Paranoia)
End If
End Sub
I'm starting to feel the entire game should be written like this. Or LogLang.
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Doc Corvid
United Kingdom
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Sorry to change the topic slightly, but is this encounter just one of the regular encounter cards that will be shuffled in with the base game, or is it a special Yig encounter?
If it's the former, that kind of scuppers my plans to permanently integrate the expansion with the base game. I would only want the snake-themed stuff to come up when playing Yig.
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Boian Spasov
Bulgaria
Sofia
We are the knights who say...
Ni!
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It looks like a clue encounter specific to Yig.
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Doc Corvid
United Kingdom
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blizzardb wrote: It looks like a clue encounter specific to Yig.
Ah of course, it is a clue encounter and therefore would probably be specific to Yig and not used with the rest of the base game against another GOO.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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Stoodster
United States
Santa Barbara
California
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iswearihaveajob wrote: The all powerful reference book states that when resolving tests "any effect after the period or part of a new paragraph, is independent from previous effects."
blizzardb wrote: Reference Guide wrote: Any effect after the period
or part of a new paragraph, is independent from previous effects.
Case closed. Thanks for the rules reference.
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Dune Tiger
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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fkif wrote: In my opinion:
There's no reason to nest it. The checks are independent of each other. Whether or not you gain a clue, you still suffer sanity loss and paranoia if you have an artifact; nesting it doesn't make a difference to the final outcome as far as I can tell - it's just ugly.
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Zsolt Farkas
Hungary
Gyömrő
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DuneTiger wrote: fkif wrote: In my opinion:
There's no reason to nest it. The checks are independent of each other. Whether or not you gain a clue, you still suffer sanity loss and paranoia if you have an artifact; nesting it doesn't make a difference to the final outcome as far as I can tell - it's just ugly.
I nested it on purpose.
I don't think the checks are independent. The "you grow fearful" part is the key. IF you heard the man's story THEN "you grow fearful". If he doesn't tell you anything, then you have no reason to be afraid, ergo you don't lose Sanity and don't become paranoid.
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Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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fkif wrote: DuneTiger wrote: fkif wrote: In my opinion:
There's no reason to nest it. The checks are independent of each other. Whether or not you gain a clue, you still suffer sanity loss and paranoia if you have an artifact; nesting it doesn't make a difference to the final outcome as far as I can tell - it's just ugly. I nested it on purpose. I don't think the checks are independent. The "you grow fearful" part is the key. IF you heard the man's story THEN "you grow fearful". If he doesn't tell you anything, then you have no reason to be afraid, ergo you don't lose Sanity and don't become paranoid.
But that doesn't follow the rules for conditionals and punctuation. The rules are extremely clear on these kind of effects. I understand the thematic reasoning, but this is a rules question and not a theme question.
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Dune Tiger
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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fkif wrote:
I nested it on purpose.
I don't think the checks are independent. The "you grow fearful" part is the key. IF you heard the man's story THEN "you grow fearful". If he doesn't tell you anything, then you have no reason to be afraid, ergo you don't lose Sanity and don't become paranoid.
Well yes, I agree that's the way it should be read, but from the RAW, they are independent. Thematically, it doesn't make sense, of course.
I think Kelly N's interpretation is the best way to play it, but it's not the "rules correct" way of playing it. Just from experience with EH and AH, you often get the shaft whether or not you get the card's benefit.
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Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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It still makes sense, thematically. Josh explained it nicely - you are fearful of the man, not the snakes.
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Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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MasterDinadan wrote: It still makes sense, thematically. Josh explained it nicely - you are fearful of the man, not the snakes.
Yes Josh's thematic justification is excellent.
It always surprises me how little creativity is shown by those that argue from theme  Theme is pliable, the rules are not.
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Dune Tiger
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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MasterDinadan wrote: It still makes sense, thematically. Josh explained it nicely - you are fearful of the man, not the snakes.
Ah, I missed that post. Was too distracted by code.
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Zsolt Farkas
Hungary
Gyömrő
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JonBen wrote: MasterDinadan wrote: It still makes sense, thematically. Josh explained it nicely - you are fearful of the man, not the snakes. Yes Josh's thematic justification is excellent. It always surprises me how little creativity is shown by those that argue from theme Theme is pliable, the rules are not.
Yes, Josh has a great imagination. However don't think that his explanation meets the designer's will. Unfortunately English is not my native language, but in my opinion "grow fearful" means that you gradually (as the man telling his story for hours) become fearful. You don't fear to lose your Artifact just because you meet a blind man.
Indeed, they didn't put the whole thing one sentence, because it would have looked awkward and complicated. They made mistake, IMO, but again, I beleive that you only lose Sanity and gain Paranoia when you passed the influence test (ie. you heard the long and fearsome story).
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Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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We can only speculate as to the designer's intentions. However, the meaning of the card as written is crystal clear.
I personally assume that the designer means what is written unless the designer says otherwise.
I don't have the Sanity to analyze the text and language of every card I draw. I just follow the instructions.
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