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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Thoughts on Epic ships rss

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Tim Pitsch
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What are your thoughts on the Epic Ships? After seeing most of whats in each expansion and now reading the rules.

Do they have the staying power needed?

Do you think we will see a lot of Huge ships falling in the first shooting rounds?

Kamikaze Transports?
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Attacking one while ignoring fighters is a high-risk play. If you can cripple a section in the first volley, that's great... but if you fail, it restores its shields and you have to start over. I guess it's a little like facing a Falcon + wingmen in 100 point squads: do you take out the easier targets first, reducing the overall firepower of the opponents' forces, or do you go after the single biggest threat while you're still at full strength but take a beating in the process?

*edit* Perhaps Luke + R2-D2 + Shield Upgrade is a better analogy. If you don't deal with him early, you might not have the firepower left to take him down later in the match.
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Tim Pitsch
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iNano78 wrote:
Attacking one while ignoring fighters is a high-risk play. If you can cripple a section in the first volley, that's great... but if you fail, it restores its shields and you have to start over. I guess it's a little like facing a Falcon + wingmen in 100 point squads: do you take out the easier targets first, reducing the overall firepower of the opponents' forces, or do you go after the single biggest threat while you're still at full strength but take a beating in the process?

*edit* Perhaps Luke + R2-D2 + Shield Upgrade is a better analogy. If you don't deal with him early, you might not have the firepower left to take him down later in the match.


Well, to get those shields back, whatever hull damage is done cant be healed, the player must spend energy. He then has to make a choice, spend the energy to gain shields back or fire secondary weapons/upgrades. The transport wont live past one round if it gets anywhere near the fight. The CR90 can possible live 2 rounds, but at 12 small ships and 6 large ships, it can easily be 1.
 
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Dennis de Vries
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Ah, doctor, that aneasthetic is perfect!
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pitsch911 wrote:

Well, to get those shields back, whatever hull damage is done cant be healed, the player must spend energy. He then has to make a choice, spend the energy to gain shields back or fire secondary weapons/upgrades. The transport wont live past one round if it gets anywhere near the fight. The CR90 can possible live 2 rounds, but at 12 small ships and 6 large ships, it can easily be 1.


The epic ships will not survive long if these ships are the only target of attack by your opponent, but your opponent also takes a beating, because your other small/large ships will take them out in round 1... Right? I don't see a problem yet with epic ships in play and keeping them in play.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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pitsch911 wrote:
Well, to get those shields back, whatever hull damage is done cant be healed, the player must spend energy. He then has to make a choice, spend the energy to gain shields back or fire secondary weapons/upgrades.


True. Hull damage will stay, just like it does for Luke/R2-D2, etc. But one way or another, you want to minimize the number of rounds spent attacking a HUGE ship. You can't afford to hit it hard, then leave it alone, then hit it again, as you'll be wasting a lot of shots taking down the shields again and again.

pitsch911 wrote:
The transport wont live past one round if it gets anywhere near the fight. The CR90 can possible live 2 rounds, but at 12 small ships and 6 large ships, it can easily be 1.


You might want to re-read the squad building rules, as it sounds like there might be some confusion. There is no limit to the total number of small and/or large ships; however, there is a cap on the number of ships of a given type (e.g. 12 TIE Fighters and/or 6 Lambda Shuttles). Given 300 point squads (versus 400 if playing teams), you could have something like 12 TIE Fighters and 8 TIE Interceptors = 20 small ships if you wanted to. Or you could take 6 Lambda Shuttles + 5 Firesprays for 11 Large ships. Or you could have 12 TIE Fighters and 6 Lambda Shuttles (+ upgrades or an Interceptor or whatever), too... which would be pretty nasty.

...

20 TIE Fighter/Interceptor swarm ... *shudders*
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glen.
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I put this together on why I think it's great for casual players especially (not that big time guys won't). http://couplevscardboard.com/size-matters-not-why-huge-ships...
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andy scott
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great article Glen! You are right! It will be great for the casual player (and those who want to introduce the game to our friends when there are 4-6 players!)
 
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Tim Pitsch
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iNano78 wrote:
pitsch911 wrote:
Well, to get those shields back, whatever hull damage is done cant be healed, the player must spend energy. He then has to make a choice, spend the energy to gain shields back or fire secondary weapons/upgrades.


True. Hull damage will stay, just like it does for Luke/R2-D2, etc. But one way or another, you want to minimize the number of rounds spent attacking a HUGE ship. You can't afford to hit it hard, then leave it alone, then hit it again, as you'll be wasting a lot of shots taking down the shields again and again.

pitsch911 wrote:
The transport wont live past one round if it gets anywhere near the fight. The CR90 can possible live 2 rounds, but at 12 small ships and 6 large ships, it can easily be 1.


You might want to re-read the squad building rules, as it sounds like there might be some confusion. There is no limit to the total number of small and/or large ships; however, there is a cap on the number of ships of a given type (e.g. 12 TIE Fighters and/or 6 Lambda Shuttles). Given 300 point squads (versus 400 if playing teams), you could have something like 12 TIE Fighters and 8 TIE Interceptors = 20 small ships if you wanted to. Or you could take 6 Lambda Shuttles + 5 Firesprays for 11 Large ships. Or you could have 12 TIE Fighters and 6 Lambda Shuttles (+ upgrades or an Interceptor or whatever), too... which would be pretty nasty.

...

20 TIE Fighter/Interceptor swarm ... *shudders*


I read the rules and you are right, oops! guess i read to quick and jumped to a conclusion.

Still, seeing that the empire has no epic ships, you can get a lot more attacks out of that 30-90 pts spent on the epic ship. Ill have my transport i hope soon to test out the epic rules with an actual ship, i know that transport is solely a support ship so a "real" epic game cannot be played till the CR90 is out.

Anyone think a kamikaze transport will work? naked transport with the sole purpose or taking out ships and asteroids?
 
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glen.
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pitsch911 wrote:
Anyone think a kamikaze transport will work? naked transport with the sole purpose or taking out ships and asteroids?


Yes and no. I think thinking about it first as a support ship like the Shuttle is key, though.
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Tim Pitsch
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thesmallman wrote:
pitsch911 wrote:
Anyone think a kamikaze transport will work? naked transport with the sole purpose or taking out ships and asteroids?


Yes and no. I think thinking about it first as a support ship like the Shuttle is key, though.


It may work, idk, will need testing.
 
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Allen T
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I don't think anyone has used the shuttle as a support ship, the abilities typically don't actually work in 100 point dogfights. As a lumbering death-dealer, however, yes.
I can see in Epic play, however, support shuttles possibly working. Sucking stress off ships passed out by the transport? Passing 3-4 target locks off before hitting range 5? Very cool.
 
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Matthew Taylor
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Something I've been thinking about...there doesn't appear to be a lot of common ground between the two huge ships.

The transport is set up to be a support ship. All the cards we've seen so far are there to add bonuses to other squads, or cause difficulty to the enemy indirectly.

The corvette on the other hand is an in your face offensive machine, with multiple weapons, (that the transport can't take) or other directly offensive upgrades.

So, am I mistaken that if you just want to run one often, you're not going to get a whole lot of benefit from buying the other for upgrade cards?
 
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Jeff Dunford
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AdmiralCrunch wrote:
Something I've been thinking about...there doesn't appear to be a lot of common ground between the two huge ships.

The transport is set up to be a support ship. All the cards we've seen so far are there to add bonuses to other squads, or cause difficulty to the enemy indirectly.

The corvette on the other hand is an in your face offensive machine, with multiple weapons, (that the transport can't take) or other directly offensive upgrades.

So, am I mistaken that if you just want to run one often, you're not going to get a whole lot of benefit from buying the other for upgrade cards?


Do you want Kyle Katarn with Moldy Crow and Recon Specialist, or Han Solo with Marksmanship and Gunner? They serve different purposes, have different lifespans, and their costs reflect that. This is really no different.
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Brian Black
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AdmiralCrunch wrote:
The corvette on the other hand is an in your face offensive machine, with multiple weapons, (that the transport can't take) or other directly offensive upgrades.


One thing I noticed was the Target Lock action of the CR-90 appears to only be acquired up to range 3, which means you'll be throwing lots of (mostly) naked dice at longer range. Doesn't make a gunship corvette very appealing to me. I'm much more excited about the transport as a support ship in epic play.

Edited for clarification.
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Allen T
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Brian_Black wrote:
AdmiralCrunch wrote:
The corvette on the other hand is an in your face offensive machine, with multiple weapons, (that the transport can't take) or other directly offensive upgrades.


One thing I noticed was the Target Lock action of the CR-90 appears to only be acquired up to range 3, which means you'll be throwing lots of (mostly) naked dice at longer range. Doesn't make a gunship corvette very appealing to me. I'm much more excited about the transport as a support ship in epic play.

Edited for clarification.


Mostly naked, free, unreturned attack dice. 4 unmodified dice a full 2 range bands farther than the enemy can even fire is a pretty good prospect, IMO, even if it does grant extra evade dice.
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Brian Black
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But would you spend ~90 points for shots at that extended range (+8 for each extra shot, limited by energy generation on the CR90)? I really want to like the corvette, but it seems really limited if you build it as a large/huge ship killer. Maybe I'm looking at it with blinders, because I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything else.
 
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Jade Youngblood
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I only play casually, but I am very much looking forward to the epic ships. I am excited by the prospect of an extended campaign option. The three hour epic gaming with 300-400 point fleets interests me less due to the time.

At the end of the day, more options for this great game cannot be a bad thing. I do not see the ships taking over the competitive scene, although the team epic rules are quite nice!

I hope they release something similar for the empire.
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Allen T
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Brian_Black wrote:
But would you spend ~90 points for shots at that extended range (+8 for each extra shot, limited by energy generation on the CR90)? I really want to like the corvette, but it seems really limited if you build it as a large/huge ship killer. Maybe I'm looking at it with blinders, because I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything else.


Depending on closing speed, you might spend a few turns building energy on the guns, and might get two shots. Also try to meet the opposing force so your ships' range 1 band aligns with range 4 of the corvette... I'll have to wait and see too, but I think FFG has generally done a good job (ignoreTIEadvance)
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Richard Beal
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Yes great article Glenn
I think I'll pick up 1 of each because they look cool, and I can play with them.

I do wonder what to scale - on par Imperial huge ships they could come out with though. Star Destroyers ("SDs") are obviously too huge.

What do the Imps have in between the SDs and the fighters/shuttles ? I can't think of anything....
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Tim East
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This is the enormous problem with Huge Ships Rik, is that there really isn't anything of that size that people will recognise.

Even famous ships like the Carrack Cruiser, Lancer Frigate, and even the Nebulon-B Frigate are an order of magnitude larger than a Corvette.

It'll be interesting to see where they go from here. My friends are betting on an Imperial Corvette, but I'm not convinced.
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Richard Beal
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Hmmm - yes a simple repainted corvette with imperial logos would feel a bit hollow and likely would not be a good seller...

Not huge - but maybe they could bolster the Imperials firepower with the assault/gunships from the old X-Wing PC game - but they are only shuttle size

It certainly is a bit of a dilemma
 
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Matthew Taylor
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I dunno...an imperial corvette wouldn't be the worst outcome. They could use the same model...could include some corvette specific upgrade cards for both sides...wouldn't be as bank breaking as an even larger model would probably be.
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Richard Beal
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True - I guess the model itself is only part of the value proposition - and same upgrades both sides could use would be tempting to all.

Depends how much people enjoy incorporating the larger ships into their general play I guess
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Rogue Knight
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Maybe they plan on doing the Assassin Corvette from the X-wing games. If I recall correctly that one was generally used by the Empire in the games.

A distinct looking ship, but very similar in size and function.
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Richard Beal
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Good thought - I just looked at it

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin-class_corvette

I think you may be on to something- would not be hard for them to do at all. Well done
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