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Even though I am an evil antisemite, I have a perpetual hard-on for Naomi Klein. The years have taken their tolls and she is not exactly a beauty anymore, but superior intelligence has its own sex appeal. Love you Naomi!!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/10/us-frac...
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Boaty McBoatface
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Yes, this is not exactly news to some. In fact I seem to recall reading that this whole Ukraine thing would just be another means of American making money out of Europe again. That it is all well and fine for the Yanks to say "we can take it", as we will be the ones paying.
 
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Doesn't really matter much to the climate whose gas you're burning.

Hopefully all this wrangling about resources is going to convince nations to use renewable/less resources.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Simon Mueller wrote:
Doesn't really matter much to the climate whose gas you're burning.

Hopefully all this wrangling about resources is going to convince nations to use renewable/less resources.
There has been a move in Europe (well at least in teh UK) to rely to heavily on importation of energy, I really do not think anyone who could not see this crisis coming has the brains to learn from it.
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Chris R.
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"..this could conceivably be the last time Moscow will be able to use gas as a weapon. The world's fracking-enabled natural gas boom may, over time, upset this status quo... (Fracking-type technologies) can not only help bolster energy independence, but eventually could also weaken the petrodollar flow into the Putin regime."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-us-fracked-gas...

I would much rather have more fracking than another Ukrainian Chernobyl-type nuclear power plant.

...

Israel found two of the best fields in a closer area. Nearby Greece needs money, and they are known for their shipping and tankers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_gas_field
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field

...

Quote:
I call this knack for exploiting crisis for private gain the shock doctrine...


Hysterical. Trying to keep people warm during the winter and away from Putin is called "exploiting crisis"...

And the alternative energy idea is what? Do nothing?

You don't think Putin is going to "exploit a crisis" for his own personal use and financial gain?
 
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Snowball
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sikeospi wrote:

You don't think Putin is going to "exploit a crisis" for his own personal use and financial gain?


On the contrary. I think that Putin does the exact same things that we do. He is not more nor less evil than we are.
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Chris R.
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If any country needs better energy independence I would think it would be Ukraine.

Ukraine ranks #32 in natural gas production and #53 in oil production.

Russia ranks #2 in natural gas production behind only the United States and #1 in oil production with the United States ranked #3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_ga...

As an American am I supposed to tell someone in Ukraine that he should not use able to use his own natural resources?

Are places like Norway, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, and Netherlands not supposed to develop their natural resources either?

What about countries like Angola, India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam?

Ukraine is supposed to be a unique case for some reason?

...

People are always complaining about how big companies don't pay their employees enough. Look at what fracking has done to North Dakota.

The starting salary at a place like Wal-Mart or McDonald's is now about $15-$17+ an hour.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0630/Oil...

http://www.startribune.com/local/188503971.html



"...$15 an hour serving tacos, $25 an hour waiting tables and $80,000 a year driving trucks."
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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sikeospi wrote:
If any country needs better energy independence I would think it would be Ukraine.

Ukraine ranks #32 in natural gas production and #53 in oil production.

Russia ranks #2 in natural gas production behind only the United States and #1 in oil production with the United States ranked #3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_ga...

As an American am I supposed to tell someone in Ukraine that he should not use able to use his own natural resources?

Are places like Norway, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, and Netherlands not supposed to develop their natural resources either?

What about countries like Angola, India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam?

Ukraine is supposed to be a unique case for some reason?

...

People are always complaining about how big companies don't pay their employees enough. Look at what fracking has done to North Dakota.

The starting salary at a place like Wal-Mart or McDonald's is now about $15-$17+ an hour.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0630/Oil...

http://www.startribune.com/local/188503971.html



"...$15 an hour serving tacos, $25 an hour waiting tables and $80,000 a year driving trucks."
Right next to a sigh that is endemic of poverty, the irony.

By the way, that is $15 for working over lunch, possibly $15 a day.

Did you also read why those rate are so high, lets just say it's not due to these workers being better off.
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Actually Europe--once a leader in alternative energy--is now quietly watering down its EU environmental goals thus paving the way for it to begin fracking the hell out of the continent.

Source.
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Chris R.
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Quote:
...it's not due to these workers being better off.




Just a different version of the cramped housing that people in New York City and other large cities call home.



I think a typical lunch shift is 11AM-2PM, M-F. That was be almost a $1,000-a-month low-skill, part-time supplemental job that someone could do until something additional or better appears.

I guess the 1849 California Gold Rush was also immoral as there just weren't enough minimum wage and other regulations.

I guess some crazy families still like to hustle it. I often meet families that purchase a small parcel of land or a repossessed home and slowly transform that into a very nice home.

If $15 an hour is what unskilled labor gets, think what you could get if you were an electrician, plumber, roofer, or engineer who could live close to rent-free in his own mobile home, truck, or with a couple of roommates? I've seen a lot of skilled people wait around for something perfect to happen these past 6 years or so. This at least seems like a partial, active solution.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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sikeospi wrote:
Quote:
...it's not due to these workers being better off.




Just a different version of the cramped housing that people in New York City and other large cities call home.



I think a typical lunch shift is 11AM-2PM, M-F. That was be almost a $1,000-a-month low-skill, part-time supplemental job that someone could do until something additional or better appears.

I guess the 1849 California Gold Rush was also immoral as there just weren't enough minimum wage and other regulations.

I guess some crazy families still like to hustle it. I often meet families that purchase a small parcel of land or a repossessed home and slowly transform that into a very nice home.

If $15 an hour is what unskilled labor gets, think what you could get if you were an electrician, plumber, roofer, or engineer who could live close to rent-free in his own mobile home, truck, or with a couple of roommates? I've seen a lot of skilled people wait around for something perfect to happen these past 6 years or so. This at least seems like a partial, active solution.
The $15 an hour is paid by some companies to enable those worker to pay the high rent caused by the increase in land values (read your bloody sources). There is no evidence everyone is getting it to increase their standard of living.

The average two-bedroom apartment in the oil patch rents for more than $2,500 per month, so if two people are earning $1,000 (each) a month they are in fact losing $500 a month, not exactly breaking out of poverty is it?

No wonder there are pawn shops near their places of work.
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Junior McSpiffy
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I have a nephew who lives in Williston. So rather than just spewing off what I thought was the case, I decided to call him up and ask about it. And yep... I was pretty much right about my thoughts.

To help you out, think of North Dakota like Alaska. Oil jobs pay REALLY well because 1) it's hard, dangerous work and 2) it's usually out in the boonies so you have to pay extra to get people out there. My nephew makes pretty good money, but that town you have pictured down there, it is fab housing just dropped down there to house the massive influx of oil workers. So if you drop a few hundred oil workers out in the middle of nowhere, what are you missing?

Everything else. A grocery store. People to work the grocery store. A gas station. People to work in the gas station. Child care providers. All sorts of things. Now, you want to get people to relocate their family to work at a Subway in a gas station for $8.00/hour? Good luck with that. The people who work those jobs come from other cities... and Williston is fairly isolated. For most, he says it's at least a 45 minute commute. Are you gonna drive 45 minutes for $8 per hour?

The reason wages are so high for such menial jobs is simply supply and demand. Far more demand than supply. If this oil boom were happening near a metropolis... or even a reasonable-sized town, there would be precisely zero noticeable wage increase compared to other places in the nation.
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Chris R.
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Look at it this way.

Either the fracking is going to be done by American and Western countries or by Putin and his oligarchs puppets.
 
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sikeospi wrote:
Look at it this way.

Either the fracking is going to be done by American and Western countries or by Putin and his oligarchs puppets.


So we should go and "liberate" the oil? Because that worked so well for us last time? Because there's not a world crisis that we shouldn't exploit? Holy hell.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
sikeospi wrote:
Look at it this way.

Either the fracking is going to be done by American and Western countries or by Putin and his oligarchs puppets.


So we should go and "liberate" the oil? Because that worked so well for us last time? Because there's not a world crisis that we shouldn't exploit? Holy hell.
I think he said what you should do, Frak the enviroment.
 
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I am just sickened by people who wrap themselves up in the flag and shout "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" and then actively seek to send our troops into harm's way, not to defend America, but to defend corporate interests... or to get aggressive and not so defensive about corporate interests. It is hypocrisy at its finest.

Tell me, what is the interest of America... not American oil companies, but America, you and me... in the Ukraine?

Hate to tell you, but sometimes things happen in the world where it doesn't work out 100% as we would like and where it's not our business to say how it should go. There's a difference between world policemen and world bullies.
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