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Subject: Half Man (30) and interaction with Nicholas Jarrot (36) rss

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Jon Ben
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Half Man (30) wrote:
Pay 1 resource of any kind and move your Scout as many spaces forward on the River as there are Scouts located on or farther ahead of your Camp (your own Scout included). In a solo game, Alexander Mackenzie is considered as a Scout.


Nicholas Jarrot (36) wrote:
This Character has no effect when you activate him. But if Nicholas Jarrot is face-up in your Playing Area when you move your Scout forward on the River (thanks to another Character), add 2 spaces to one movement on the River (the Strength given to the other Character doesn't matter).


Question 1
If I power Half Man with more than one strength do I evaluate the movement points given before each activation? If yes (I think you would) then later movement could improve if you reach your camp due to the earlier movement. However, other cards which can have chaining effects like Sacagawea do not allow earlier activations to help later ones.

Question 2
If I have Nicholas Jarrot in my play area and I play Half Man and pay to activate him, but there are zero scouts at or ahead of my camp do I get any movement? If read literally I would say no, since Nicholas only helps if you move your Scout forward and zero movement is not forward.
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Hardy
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Good questions!

I think the answer is not in the rules. Both are unlikely situation, so therefore nobody came across this questions so far.
Regarding the question, if multiple activations happen simultaneously or one after another, the rules are unclear and inconsequent: e.g. Sacagawea: simultaneous, Pow-wow: consecutively.
 
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Eugene Spears
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1 - That's a tough one, although if another player tried this in a game against me, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially since, while the payments to activate a card are simultaneous, movements between strengths don't seem to be (given that you can alternate between terrain on some cards).

2 - 2 - If a scout is *at* the same space you camp, you still count it. But if they all are behind you camp, then yep - it would be 0 movement.
Edit: I read that wrong - I guess since you wouldn't be moving "forward" you couldn't move the extra either, but I'm not sure if that just rules lawyer-ing.
 
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Jason S
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Re:Question 1
I would say "No". no matter how many times you activate, which should be considered as chain effect.
e.g.if you move your scout x3, you won't benefit by the first two movement land on the same spot as other player scout. You only benefit when you finish all 3 movement.
and (53)Sacagawea is another example as you mention

Re:Question 2
I would say "No" as well. Card(36)clearly written "when you move your Scout forward"

just my 2 cents
 
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Jason S
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fallenpillars wrote:


2 - If a scout is *at* the same space you camp, you still count it. But if they all are behind you camp, then yep - it would be 0 movement.


His scout might fall back behind his own camp on the previous round
 
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Cédrick Chaboussit
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Interesting (and unlikely!) situations ;-)

1/ You have to evaluate the number of camps once, before moving and you perform all actions in one go. Thus the first action does not improve the effect of the second (as detailed for Sacagawea). We decided to generalize this rule even if we can still find some exceptions (like the interpreter which is detailed in the rulebook).

2/ Logically, you have to move 0+2 = 2 spaces. I agree, the "if you move forward" in the rulebook should be replaced by "if you activate a river movement action"

Thanks a lot for your interest
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Enon Sci
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Chabousse wrote:
Interesting (and unlikely!) situations ;-)

1/ You have to evaluate the number of camps once, before moving and you perform all actions in one go. Thus the first action does not improve the effect of the second (as detailed for Sacagawea). We decided to generalize this rule even if we can still find some exceptions (like the interpreter which is detailed in the rulebook).


This generalized rule should appear in the rulebook in some fashion. Without it, a serious case can be made for parsing a card per each activation, instead of doing all evaluations in a go.

Currently, only two examples of multiple card activations exists in the book: resources (where the distinction wouldn't matter) and the interpreter (which appears to be an exception). A close reading of the rules wouldn't lend one to feel the interpreter wasn't the norm for multiple activations of non-resource generating cards.
 
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Jon Ben
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Chabousse wrote:
Interesting (and unlikely!) situations ;-)


The game is in the wilds now with over 3400 reported plays here on BGG. Even the unlikely has likely happened several times now

Quote:
1/ You have to evaluate the number of camps once, before moving and you perform all actions in one go. Thus the first action does not improve the effect of the second (as detailed for Sacagawea). We decided to generalize this rule even if we can still find some exceptions (like the interpreter which is detailed in the rulebook).

2/ Logically, you have to move 0+2 = 2 spaces. I agree, the "if you move forward" in the rulebook should be replaced by "if you activate a river movement action"

Thanks a lot for your interest


Great! Thanks for the response. It's a good thing I checked because my initial thoughts on both issues were not what you intended

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André Seiler
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Chabousse wrote:
Interesting (and unlikely!) situations ;-)

1/ You have to evaluate the number of camps once, before moving and you perform all actions in one go. Thus the first action does not improve the effect of the second (as detailed for Sacagawea). We decided to generalize this rule even if we can still find some exceptions (like the interpreter which is detailed in the rulebook).

2/ Logically, you have to move 0+2 = 2 spaces. I agree, the "if you move forward" in the rulebook should be replaced by "if you activate a river movement action"

Thanks a lot for your interest


For 2/ the (original?!) french rules says different:
"... lorsque vous avancez votre Éclaireur d’au moins une case ... ajoutez 2 cases ..."
Therefore, 0+0 would be correct, because you can add the bonus only when you move at least 1 space without it.

I think this makes also more sense because how could you add a bonus to something that does not take place?
 
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Kris Ardianto
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Freejack69 wrote:
Chabousse wrote:
Interesting (and unlikely!) situations ;-)

1/ You have to evaluate the number of camps once, before moving and you perform all actions in one go. Thus the first action does not improve the effect of the second (as detailed for Sacagawea). We decided to generalize this rule even if we can still find some exceptions (like the interpreter which is detailed in the rulebook).

2/ Logically, you have to move 0+2 = 2 spaces. I agree, the "if you move forward" in the rulebook should be replaced by "if you activate a river movement action"

Thanks a lot for your interest


For 2/ the (original?!) french rules says different:
"... lorsque vous avancez votre Éclaireur d’au moins une case ... ajoutez 2 cases ..."
Therefore, 0+0 would be correct, because you can add the bonus only when you move at least 1 space without it.

I think this makes also more sense because how could you add a bonus to something that does not take place?


So the designer had given the clarification over this, and when you made an issue over the original rules (in French) of the game (since it's a French game) did you ever think that the Designer made the game and he's also a French. Either the original rule is incorrect or it's the Designer's.
 
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André Seiler
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vardamir wrote:
So the designer had given the clarification over this, and when you made an issue over the original rules (in French) of the game (since it's a French game) did you ever think that the Designer made the game and he's also a French. Either the original rule is incorrect or it's the Designer's.


Clarification? An answer that does not regard the rules is very confusing, even if (or especially because) it comes from the designer.
I had to decrease my voting for the game because of many errors in translation and clearness of the rules. And it is getting worse if you think you understood something (because you follow the rules), then you come here to read a completely different answer of the designer.
 
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