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Subject: [Deck] Kate - clickfree econ, big rig control rss

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Matthias Nadler
Switzerland
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Ideas behind the deck:
- Rely on an event and recurring credit based economy instead of opus or katie.
- An effective "big" control rig with an emphasis on low cost breakers, no cheating them into play.
- Assume the tempo of the Corp. Build your board until you are forced to act.

Explanation and card choices:

We are not using test run / scavenge, eureka or any other means to cheat on the cost of our breakers. Therefore they must be reasonably costed but still effective at every stage of the game. We want one breaker for each type of ice,a few ways to find them and a few ways to recover / protect them.
Barrier: this one is easy, Corroder is both cheap and very powerful.
Code gate: torch is too expensive. Gordian blade or zu.13 both work nicely. I prefer zu.13
Sentry: this one is tricky. the only breaker that fits cheap p and powerful is dagger.

If we run dagger we want all three cloaks and at least two silencers. Those have the added benefit of serving as recurring economy in addition to enabling the dagger.

Since all our breakers cost 1-3 credits, smc is a very reasonable way of getting them on the board with the added benefit that it also finds the cloaks.


Our econ will be driven by recurring credits. Kate's ability, prepaid voicepad, toolbox, cloak / silencer, underworld contact, etc.
The idea being to use all the free credits each turn by playing an event, a program / hardware and doing a run.
For prepaid voicepad to work as we need the full card draw package and roughly 1/3 of the deck being events with cost greater than zero:
3 quality time, 3 sure gamble, 3 lucky find, 2 levy AR access, 3 dirty laundry.

This burst heavy econ (further supported by modding) will ideally allow us to power out an early toolbox and set up the underworld contact engine.

11 slots for programs (incl. Silencers)
14 slots for voicepad events
13 more slots to power the econ (2 toolbox, 3 prepaid voicepad, 2 modded, 3 diesel, 3 underworld contact)
2 r&d interface for locking the game

This leaves us with 5 slots and 1 influence to flesh out the deck.

2 cards should be dedicated to beating scorched earth. Plascrete carapace is the obvious choice due to synergy with kate and modded.

The last 3 slots can be adjusted depending on your meta.
I run 1 cyber feeder (more econ) and 2 clone chip (smc 4 and 5 as well as breaker recursion).

Final deck:

Silent Kate

Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core Set)

Event (19)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
2x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control)
3x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••• •
2x Modded (Core Set)
3x Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (14)
2x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)
1x Cyberfeeder (Core Set)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
3x Prepaid VoicePAD (Second Thoughts)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)
2x Silencer (Double Time) ••••• •
2x The Toolbox (Core Set)

Resource (3)
3x Underworld Contact (A Study in Static)

Icebreaker (3)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
1x Dagger (Creation and Control)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead)

Program (6)
3x Cloak (Creation and Control)
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time

Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.

The real strength of the deck is an almost uncontested late game if given time to set up while being able to challenge fast advancing decks with smc and cheap breakers.

Try the deck and let me know how it is working out for you and what changes you could see!
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Brian H
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Not sure where it would fit in, but with that much Hardware it almost seems like you might consider running Replicator.
 
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Ber -
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I like the look of this deck.

Definitely agree Cloak & Dagger & Silencer is nice.

I also like the Prepaid Voicepad + events setup, I think you're right that with Lucky Find we've finally reached a good set of non-zero cost events to justify Voicepad. I'd really like to fit some Maker's Eyes into this deck though, it would go great with Voicepad, Levy AR Labs Access, and with the 'single big run per turn' focus that comes with recurring credits.

I wonder if 3x SMC plus one of each breaker is enough to set them up quickly though? I'd like to squeeze in an extra copy of Dagger at least to help set up faster.

Also, not convinced by the Underworld Contacts, seems like it could take a long time to get that rolling. I'd rather switch those for something else that isn't resources, then ignore tags.
 
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Daine .

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I don't think you're getting your money's worth with the moddeds. They pay for the RDI and help with the toolbox, but they're a dead card in most hands. I'd just cut them.

If you're going with UWC, you might consider rabbit holes. They'll help thin the deck if nothing else.

I've been loving crescentus in shaper lately. If the cyberfeeder doesn't pull its weight, I'd recommend giving crescentus a try. It's particularly helpful against curtain walls and tollbooths. You've got recursion to bring them back if you're battling a glacier deck.

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Steven Tu
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I saw a deck like this running by my friend last night, it looks nuts, on the table was:
3 cloaks
2 daggers
3 cyber feeders
1 femme
With 2 personal touches
1 Gordian
2 voice pads
Not sure which console/MU he had.

And he just levy'd and has a hand full of event Econ.

The only reason he hadn't lost yet was cos the NBN opponent wasn't drawing agendas earlier
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Shane Ruman
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Agree about moddeds and they are not useful with Prepaid Voice Pads as well. Personally, I don't really get Prepaid Voice Pads since you have to play 3, one+ cost events to break even with them (okay 2 if first hardware Kate plays in the round), and, really, need to be in the three+ click-equiv to be worth it over other econ cards for the card slot (so 6 events played after playing them), how often does that happen? Apart from that, I guess they protect from power shutdowns but have lots of cheap hardware to do that.

Plus do you need 2 levy's, seems like a card you don't want to play till mid-game+ anyway and likely have drawn your one by then.
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Shane Ruman
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Whoops, cut myself off early. I also really paused at all the card influence and slots used on the sentry breaker -- 6 in total. Seems like mimic + datasuckersx3 (and 1 less influence) would be stronger or femme with personal touches (1 influence) or other combos on a in-faction breaker. Just a thought.
 
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Grant Cain
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Instead of toolbox, have you given thought to dyson mem chip? It hits the memory and link that you need and for Kate really cheap to get out. For underworld contacts, it's something you want out as early as possible. Waiting for toolbox to hit seems like it may take more time. Other, than that, this is one of my favorite builds and I run this type of deck constantly and has performed well against most corps. Keep it up.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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wiley15 wrote:
Plus do you need 2 levy's, seems like a card you don't want to play till mid-game+ anyway and likely have drawn your one by then.


The advantage between two Levys is that you can ignore the first one. If you discard it due to net damage the Corp thinks you've lost your only copy. When you play the second one, it shuffles the first one back in, which is great when combined with event econ.
 
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Matt - Conduit23
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I really like these kinds of decks.

I might give up on the "link activated" cards and take Gordian over Zu, and Daily Casts over UW.

Agree on finding room for Crescentus and Maker's Eye.
 
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Matt - Conduit23
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mdanuser wrote:
I really like these kinds of decks.

I might give up on the "link activated" cards and take Gordian over Zu, and Daily Casts over UW.

Agree on finding room for Crescentus and Maker's Eye.

Quoting myself after playing 2 games. Toolbox/UW/Zu actually worked out really well. But I can't imagine playing without Crescentus (so much giant ICE everywhere right now) and loved having Maker's Eye instead of RDI.

Here's what I was playing if you're curious:
Quote:
Event (21)
3x Diesel
3x Dirty Laundry
1x Infiltration
2x Levy AR Lab Access
3x Lucky Find ••••• •
3x Quality Time
3x Sure Gamble
3x The Maker's Eye
Hardware (11)
2x Clone Chip
2x Plascrete Carapace
3x Prepaid VoicePAD
2x Silencer ••••• •
2x The Toolbox
Resource (3)
3x Underworld Contact
Icebreaker (3)
1x Corroder ••
1x Dagger
1x ZU.13 Key Master
Program (7)
3x Cloak
1x Crescentus •
3x Self-modifying Code

I looooove VoicePAD. I know if you crunch the numbers it might not be the most effective thing in the world, but in my last game I had 3 of them out, was in dire need of money with no econ in hand, clicked to draw and got.. Lucky Find! Last two clicks for 9 credits no big deal.

Think I might trade 1 LARLA for 1 SOT. I like being able to install a SOT and discard my LARLA and not have anything clogging up my hand until I'm ready to reboot. (Haven't gotten to the point of needing to reboot yet, so I can't imagine you'd ever need to reboot twice.) And then in a pinch you can SOT a Maker's Eye or Infiltration.
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Shane Ruman
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As a crazy thought, how about 1 Notoriety? Late game when you need the point this deck actually has the ability to run all 3 and the look of surprise alone might be worth it
 
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Ezio Auditore
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Would love to see Personal Workshop in this deck, fits very nicely with the clickless economy theme.
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Sean Hanrahan
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If you go personal workshop(which you should, with all the hardware you have), consider stimhack. It will let you get the toolbox out faster. Then you take out the modded and maybe a silencer or a lucky find and the cyberfeeder. The sooner you can get your underworld contacts working, the better.

 
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Shane Ruman
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My understanding is that Personal Workshop does not combine with Kate's powers so I tend not to put them in the same deck myself.
 
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Shane Ruman
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As a long-lover of the idea of toolbox, but never really keeping it in a deck past a few bad losses, I have to thank you. I've played, my version of this deck (posted below) for 6 games now and really enjoying it. It's 3-and-3 but all against good players on OCTGN with strong/tier-1 decks (NBN:FA, HB:CI-super-combo, HB:EtF Taxing). Changes I've made are:

- dropped cyber feeder (with the toolbox, cloaks, silencer don't really need more run-creds with have tons of other creds) and Modded's ( cost-0 and not much expensive h/w) for 3 Maker's Eyes.

- removed the diesels for Same Old Things. Quality Time and Levy's are lots of draw and the Same Old Things are so good in this deck -- Maker's Eye's with no end or Lucky Finds with no end or ...

- I was skeptical about Cloak/Dagger/Silencer but now I'm a believer!

- The blackmail is just there to see, but probably taking it out soon for an Escher or something.

I'm also going to try a Chaos Theory version to see, but any thoughts on this one welcome. Thanks.


Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core)


Total Cards: (45)

Event: (18)
Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control) x3
Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) x2
Lucky Find (Double Time) x3 ■■
Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow) x3
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Blackmail (Fear and Loathing) x1

Hardware: (11)
Clone Chip (Creation and Control) x2
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x2
Prepaid VoicePAD (Second Thoughts) x3
Silencer (Double Time) x2 ■■■
The Toolbox (Core) x2

Program: (10)
Corroder (Core) x1 ■■
Dagger (Creation and Control) x1
ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) x1
Cloak (Creation and Control) x3
Crescentus (A Study in Static) x1 ■
Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) x3

Resource: (6)
Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x3
Underworld Contact (A Study in Static) x3

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 2
Criminal: 7
Shaper: 42
 
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Pierre-Yves Caron
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I really like this build. I have been running a similar deck that relies on SOT in order to pull out events from the heap, but never managed to get a functionnal and effective deck without spending lots of credits.

I built the same deck except that I followed your recommendation and switched 1x Blackmail for 1x Escher. I'll be testing this one out later this week and report back.

I might also keep the blackmail and go to 46 cards total, just in case, because many players in my meta play Weyland.
 
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Shane Ruman
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Good to hear, let me know how it goes. We're make this the Canuck-Variant. I also thought about switching out the Zu for a Gordian due to efficiency-over-time factors but have, to my suprise, hit a few times when the extra no-memory-factor of Zu actually helped a bit even with 6.
 
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Captain Frisk
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wiley15 wrote:
My understanding is that Personal Workshop does not combine with Kate's powers so I tend not to put them in the same deck myself.


While true - you can usually work around it. If you really want the discount - you could pay to install the item on your workshop at the end of the corp's turn - or take the credit off of another item on the workshop and then pay to install AFTER you saved a credit installing your other thing -

Workshop does so many good things for you, its worth it even if it blanks your ability once in a while (remember - if you used the workshop to install at the start of your turn, you got a free $ anyway)

1. Drip economy
2. Ability to turn bad pub / stimhack into something useful
3. Ability to install on the fly.

 
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Shane Ruman
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Thought I would report back with my experiment on the CT version of this deck (below). In short, after 4 games (not enough for conclusive but some intuitions come clear) is that it isn't working as well as my Kate (above in thread). At this point willing to keep trying (although my heart's with Kate anyway) but might change to:

- drop Garrote and work in Cloak/Dagger/Silencer. It's a big card space hit but, you know, I hate Garrote so expensive for a 2-strength, kinda looks obscene beside Corroder (and more influence). To do this thought I would:
-2 kati, -2 toolbox (too expensive in this deck), -1 garotte, -1 HQI (actually that was working, so sad to see it go
+1 dagger, +2 silencer, +3 cloak

Thoughts on this or other changes?






Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)


Total Cards: (40)

Event: (18)
Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control) x3
Escher (Creation and Control) x1
Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) x2
Lucky Find (Double Time) x3 ■■
Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Sure Gamble (Core) x3

Hardware: (11)
R&D Interface (Future Proof) x2
Prepaid VoicePAD (Second Thoughts) x3
HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow) x1 ■■
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x2
The Toolbox (Core) x2
Clone Chip (Creation and Control) x1

Program: (7)
Corroder (Core) x1 ■■
Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) x3
Garrote (True Colors) x1 ■■■
Gordian Blade (Core) x1
Crescentus (A Study in Static) x1 ■

Resource: (4)
Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow) x2
Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x2

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 2
Criminal: 6
Shaper: 42
 
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Matthias Nadler
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I've been playing the deck a lot recently and here are some observations and suggested changes with an updated list.

- Kate is the only viable id for this deck. The amount of money gained over a medium to long game (which this deck aims for) an the low/slow MU taxing really leave no other option.

- I tried personal workshop. I really Wanted to make it work, but this deck has around 8 one credit pieces and 4 two credit pieces. Even if you run toolbox and rdi workshop is often awkward with Kate's ability and simply not with it. Stimhack is in the same vein. Nothing big to get with smc and only amazing with workshop. I don't think this is a shell for either.

- As many of you pointed out, modding and to a lesser extent RDI underperformed. Modding helped to dump handsize in a deck that draws a lot, but was mostly dead without the box.

- With modding gone, toolbox became increasingly difficult to get out early and turned into more of a liability. Dyson mem chip is the obvious alternative, offering 1/3 of a toolbox at 1/3 of the cost (less if you factor in kates ability multiple times) and just 1 mem chip is usually enough to turn on both your full rig and UWC, making further ones late game options if you really need more MU or link (but usually you can ignore the 2nd one). 3 are probably too many but running 2 and a single global sec. Sounded good to me - and testing strongly confirmed that.

- with the console slot open the option of running spinal modem presented itself. The synergies are amazing (link based deck lowers the drawback, clickfree economy). I think it is fine to run one modem and a cyberfeeder over a silencer. But a lot more testing would be required to confirm that. For now ill stick with two silencers and no console.

- Crescentus is amazing and crushes the lategame. Very nice with the smc and clone chips too. Definitely worth one slot.

- With rdi gone most of you suggested makers eye. I'm not the biggest fan for several reasons. Makers eye is a decently aggressive card but this deck can not capitalize on early aggression at all. And it kinda doesn't need help to close out the game as with two levys and such an effficient rig/ lategame econ it is very rare that you lose a game with your full engine going. Maybe this deck just doesn't need help to close out. Of maybe two makers eye is correct.

- I tested SOT, but it was very Underwhelming. One thought that crossed my mind when running only one levy and 2-3 sot was to replace a silencer with an inside job. This would shore up some of the early game weakness while provining a constant threat, forcing the corp to play around it.

I'll post the updated list later today but the changes are something like this:
-1 cyberfeeder -2 modded -2 rdi -2 toolbox
+1 crescentus +2 dyson mem chip +2 makers eye +1 link to global sec +1 free slot (clone chip 3 or sot maybe)
 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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wiley15 wrote:
- drop Garrote and work in Cloak/Dagger/Silencer. It's a big card space hit but, you know, I hate Garrote so expensive for a 2-strength, kinda looks obscene beside Corroder (and more influence).

Comparing to Corroder makes no sense because Corroder cannot break sentries

Cloak + Daggers + Silencers will take at least the same influence (unless you go Cloaks only), at least the same MU (unless you go Silencers only), more cardslots and whatever yousave on cheaper install will be lost on spending multiple clicks to install. If you want a killer option that is easy and quick to setup, use Ninja.
 
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Shane Ruman
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Agree Corroder vs. Garotte is not a serious comparison, but when you actually play the 2 side-by-side (at least I) always do a double-take and say ... damm you Corroder, damm you (now that you're recovering money for a round)

I see your argument about the extra clicks for Cloak + Daggers + Silencers = savings on Garotte. Although Kate's ability (if using her) the total cost for Cloak + Silencer + Dagger is 5 click-creds equivalent vs. 7 for Garrote. 2 creds is not the world but something. Although it's versus installing over 3 rounds so mileage will vary. Every silencer/cloak after that (which are free for Kate that round) only makes the diff bigger.

However, that completely ignores the re-usable credits when you run. I'd say you'll break a sentry at least 6 times in a typical game so that's huge -- 6 - 12 cred savings. Also if you're break bigger sentries and people are using more and more 4+ strengths (Ichi 1.0 is everywhere in our meta). For a 4 strength with 2 subs (let's say), Garotte is 4 credits while Cloak+Dagger is 3 and a 5 strength it's 5 vs. 3. However, at 6 you do have trouble I agree, so against Weyland that has scored an cheap Agenda I go digging (hopefully with QT) for that 2nd silencer / cloak .. then break Archer for a total out-of-pocket cost for 4 credits which is just cool (however, the scoring window is not so cool ... but Archer usually causes that as it's an 8-break with Garrotte). Ninja does match up better and could also be combo'ed with Cloak/Silencer too but it's more expensive to both install and to use (2 extra creds to boost).

Anyway, after that ramble, it's a good thing to think about it and thanks for bringing up. I'll keep in mind if Cloak/Silencer/Dagger is looking like it's just not quick enough.

Might as well continue the ramble for a second. I know people will scoff at Toolbox in any build (with good reason) but those re-occurring credits are just awesome late game. Last night I played GRDNL and at turn 11, I had the toolboox+cloak+silencer while they had 2 BP and I was running a 3-decent-ice data fort for 2 credits out-of-pocket. I'll admit in general you'll be digging out of a hole by the time rig is up (welcome to Shaper imho) but you have a really good shovel. After playing criminal for so long and being really disappointed with first Shaper decks, I'm warming fast to Shaper.
 
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Shane Ruman
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Good points and convinced me to flip back from Femme to Crescentus. However I disagree with your comparison of Dyson to Toolbox and 1 Dyson = 1/3 toolbox. That case ignores the re-occuring creds which are big. To me this comparison is:

Toolbox Pros
- 2 re-occuring creds and on average, I figure, you'll run 4-5 times after getting it out (and usually more) so that's 8+ creds swing.
- 2x toolbox in deck vs 3 x Dyson is 1 card saved and still more likely to get your 1 toolbox and 2 dysons out of deck.


2xDyson Pros
- only 4 creds with Kate's ability
- gets out Underworld contacts sooner (this is fairly big)
- do you need the 6th memory? I'd say not "need" but option to have another cloak or the crescentus in the mix with an SMC hogging things is nice (had 2 SMCs installed once and things started to look really tight). If consider that a luxury that's too slow then the 1 dyson does what you need for 2 vs. 8 creds which is big.


Hmmm, kinda argued myself back to pretty close .... So really up to personal pref. I think and how much you think Toolbox is just cool (whic h is alot for me ; the actual statistics on drawing 1 toolbox vs. 2 dyson; cost of underworlds sitting in hand; and # of runs after toolbox gets out.
 
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Shane Ruman
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Whoops, I meant damm you Garrotte. I'd never damm Corroder (okay maybe when paying for that Curtain Wall on the outside ..), it's that good.
 
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