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Subject: Quick Loitering and Threat Penalty Question rss

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Hot Rod
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Loitering is described as happening when the heroes do not use an action during the Hero Cycle. Does this mean:

A - that at least ONE hero in the party needs to spend an action during the HC, and the rest need not? or;

B - that ALL heroes need to spend at least one action each to avoid Loitering?

I'm thinking B, but with this Rulebook, who knows?

Threat Penalty on most Darkness cards says that the Threat Penalty, lasts the rest of the Act (I guess so does Loitering, too). Okay, so how do I deal with Threat Penalty if I'm not playing an Act. Say I'm playing a quick Free-Chapter or Chapter session, how does Threat Penalty work in those, when it specifically says Act?

Thanks!
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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It's A.
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Hot Rod
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Thanks Mathue!

Any thoughts on the Threat Penalty? I'm inclined to call an entire session on Act when dealing with Free Chapter games. Thoughts?
 
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Michael Pruden
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That's how I would take it. If you're playing a free form act (Drew an act card) or just free form playing without anything than until you're done playing... Or just decide you've had enough with that penalty.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Loitering is avoided when at least one AP is spent as a group.

I recommend a houserule that removes it and add an AP in the refresh if none was added in the HC. (And not allowing "loitering" when the tile is clear).

When you are free questing, that is still an Act, it is simply an Act without an Act Quest.
 
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Judy Krauss
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ShotgunLove wrote:
Loitering is described as happening when the heroes do not use an action during the Hero Cycle. Does this mean:

A - that at least ONE hero in the party needs to spend an action during the HC, and the rest need not? or;

B - that ALL heroes need to spend at least one action each to avoid Loitering?

I'm thinking B, but with this Rulebook, who knows?

Threat Penalty on most Darkness cards says that the Threat Penalty, lasts the rest of the Act (I guess so does Loitering, too). Okay, so how do I deal with Threat Penalty if I'm not playing an Act. Say I'm playing a quick Free-Chapter or Chapter session, how does Threat Penalty work in those, when it specifically says Act?

Thanks!


A

and


I've been playing that it lasts for the rest of the whole Adventure (in other words, for that game). ...Unless you are playing a Story Quest with separate acts, in which case it lasts for the rest of the act.

EDITED to fix typo and really stupid mistake!
 
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Thanks all!

Two more questions off the to do list.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Jude wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
Loitering is described as happening when the heroes do not use an action during the Hero Cycle. Does this mean:

A - that at least ONE hero in the party needs to spend an action during the HC, and the rest need not? or;

B - that ALL heroes need to spend at least one action each to avoid Loitering?

I'm thinking B, but with this Rulebook, who knows?

Threat Penalty on most Darkness cards says that the Threat Penalty, lasts the rest of the Act (I guess so does Loitering, too). Okay, so how do I deal with Threat Penalty if I'm not playing an Act. Say I'm playing a quick Free-Chapter or Chapter session, how does Threat Penalty work in those, when it specifically says Act?

Thanks!


A - and remember that some cards can be played as an Action or Reaction, but only playing a card as an Action counts towards negating the Loitering penalty.


I've been playing that it last for the rest of the whole Adventure (in other words, for that game). ...Unless you are playing a Story Quest with separate acts, in which case it lasts for the rest of the act.


Loitering has nothing to do with actions/reactions, only AP.

"Heroes (as a party) must spend at least one Action Point (AP) per Hero
Cycle. If they do not, they are considered to be Loitering."
 
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Hector Rivera
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I am slowly reading my way through the rules.

The loitering question the answer is A (Page 21 PDF Rulebook)

The Threat penalty (page 34) happens if it meets the criteria and is in effect for the entire act (or any chapters in that act).


On page 12 it states what constitutes a story, act, and chapter.

Story Quest = one or more Acts (Note: do not draw act quest cards when doing story quest)

Acts = One or more chapters

In the rules there is also mentions of a Myth = one or more stories.


Hope this helps and I'm not wrong. I'm sure you could house rule it if you like to cater to your play style or group.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Jude wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
Loitering is described as happening when the heroes do not use an action during the Hero Cycle. Does this mean:

A - that at least ONE hero in the party needs to spend an action during the HC, and the rest need not? or;

B - that ALL heroes need to spend at least one action each to avoid Loitering?

I'm thinking B, but with this Rulebook, who knows?

Threat Penalty on most Darkness cards says that the Threat Penalty, lasts the rest of the Act (I guess so does Loitering, too). Okay, so how do I deal with Threat Penalty if I'm not playing an Act. Say I'm playing a quick Free-Chapter or Chapter session, how does Threat Penalty work in those, when it specifically says Act?

Thanks!


A - and remember that some cards can be played as an Action or Reaction, but only playing a card as an Action counts towards negating the Loitering penalty.


I've been playing that it last for the rest of the whole Adventure (in other words, for that game). ...Unless you are playing a Story Quest with separate acts, in which case it lasts for the rest of the act.

As Jeremy said, Loitering doesn't concern Acton vs Reaction. It is only tied to the use of AP. As long as at least one Hero plays a card that uses AP during the a Hero Cycle then the Heroes are not considered to be Loitering.... whether that card is an Action or a Reaction.
 
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Judy Krauss
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Whoops/ Stupid mistake on my part. blush I will edit my post.

mfaulk80 wrote:

As Jeremy said, Loitering doesn't concern Acton vs Reaction. It is only tied to the use of AP. As long as at least one Hero plays a card that uses AP during the a Hero Cycle then the Heroes are not considered to be Loitering.... whether that card is an Action or a Reaction.


Sorry about that. I actually don't play that way, but for some reason my mind confused the two while writing.

Does an AP from playing an Interrupt card also negate the Loitering penalty? I think it should.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Jude wrote:
Whoops/ Stupid mistake on my part. blush I will edit my post.

mfaulk80 wrote:

As Jeremy said, Loitering doesn't concern Acton vs Reaction. It is only tied to the use of AP. As long as at least one Hero plays a card that uses AP during the a Hero Cycle then the Heroes are not considered to be Loitering.... whether that card is an Action or a Reaction.


Sorry about that. I actually don't play that way, but for some reason my mind confused the two while writing.

Does an AP from playing an Interrupt card also negate the Loitering penalty? I think it should.


Yes.

But I am a full proponent of removing loitering altogether and adding couple rules that do mostly the same thing instead (+1 AP in refresh if no AP was added in the HC and during the refresh phase while heroes are on a cleared tile, move them all to the edge of the cleared tile.)
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Deadwolf wrote:
Jude wrote:
Whoops/ Stupid mistake on my part. blush I will edit my post.

mfaulk80 wrote:

As Jeremy said, Loitering doesn't concern Acton vs Reaction. It is only tied to the use of AP. As long as at least one Hero plays a card that uses AP during the a Hero Cycle then the Heroes are not considered to be Loitering.... whether that card is an Action or a Reaction.


Sorry about that. I actually don't play that way, but for some reason my mind confused the two while writing.

Does an AP from playing an Interrupt card also negate the Loitering penalty? I think it should.


Yes.

But I am a full proponent of ditch loitering altogether and adding couple rules that do mostly the same thing instead (+1 AP in refresh if no AP was added in the HC and during the refresh phase while heroes are on a cleared tile, move them all to the edge of the cleared tile.)


Therefore giving them no chance to pick up treasure once the tile is cleared...do they still get the gold pieces that the treasure turns into? What about if there is a Merchant that appears when the tile is cleared?
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Jude wrote:


Therefore giving them no chance to pick up treasure once the tile is cleared...do they still get the gold pieces that the treasure turns into? What about if there is a Merchant that appears when the tile is cleared?


Treasure is turned to gold and immediately given to heroes when a tile is cleared (this is as per rules), also you can simply resolve the merchant right away or during that Refresh Phase, it doesn't really matter...

I actually plan on a rule where the tile isn't considered clear until the refresh phase in order to give you a small window to pick up treasure (like if the last monster killed popped a treasure).
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Thanks again for all the info.

The Loitering variants sound very interesting, though I don't think a 1 AP penalty is enough. The loitering pen is pretty brutal, so I would consider 1 AP per player. In a four player game, you should be very likely to have one person turn up an AP.

Separately, how are you all dealing with the realm tile transitions? I was running a test run today and ran into this:

4x6 tile, trap was boulders. One character was a card play (sprint) away from leaving, while the other made it 1 MP. As one exits, what happens?

I played it like this: the acolyte got off, so I pulled a 6x6, and I began to resolve the quest (A desperate act), which apparantly sends you to a 12x12 immediately. Note that while all this is going on, I still have a soldier on the previous tile dealing with the boulder trap. Oh sure, the trap was no longer an issue, but at what point do you start resolving the new tile? Immediately?

Refresh phase seems the most likely, but I could not find anything one way or the other. Plus with a quest like that, seems like there should be something to prevent it from going off until the previous tile is resolved. Or maybe the quest just interrupts everything, and the party just magically gets whisked away to the slaughterfield, the assumption being that they previous tile was obviously resolved. I don't know. It might be in there, but that Rulebook is a wonderful and labyrinthine thing.
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Jeremy Steward
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ShotgunLove wrote:
Thanks again for all the info.

The Loitering variants sound very interesting, though I don't think a 1 AP penalty is enough. The loitering pen is pretty brutal, so I would consider 1 AP per player. In a four player game, you should be very likely to have one person turn up an AP.

Separately, how are you all dealing with the realm tile transitions? I was running a test run today and ran into this:

4x6 tile, trap was boulders. One character was a card play (sprint) away from leaving, while the other made it 1 MP. As one exits, what happens?

I played it like this: the acolyte got off, so I pulled a 6x6, and I began to resolve the quest (A desperate act), which apparantly sends you to a 12x12 immediately. Note that while all this is going on, I still have a soldier on the previous tile dealing with the boulder trap. Oh sure, the trap was no longer an issue, but at what point do you start resolving the new tile? Immediately?

Refresh phase seems the most likely, but I could not find anything one way or the other. Plus with a quest like that, seems like there should be something to prevent it from going off until the previous tile is resolved. Or maybe the quest just interrupts everything, and the party just magically gets whisked away to the slaughterfield, the assumption being that they previous tile was obviously resolved. I don't know. It might be in there, but that Rulebook is a wonderful and labyrinthine thing.


1 AP may not be enough, but my loitering variant was mostly to emulate the rules as intended while removing the negative side effects of it (Mostly how loitering interacts with traps).

You played the transition right (mostly). The Acolyte moves off and you immediately set up the tile and that tile is active (The tile, not necessarily the monsters). The rules do state however, if the quest calls for a size different than the one you entered, you set that tile next to the one you entered and do that one next. (This obviously can't be done in a Story Quest-In which case, I'd probably draw a new one, or cancel it since chapter quests are optional within Story Quests)

I actually also really dislike the Slaughterfield chapter quests personally, They will not be in the deck when I play Story Quests, tho I would likely include them for Act Quests.

 
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Jarad Bond
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ShotgunLove wrote:
The Loitering variants sound very interesting, though I don't think a 1 AP penalty is enough. The loitering pen is pretty brutal, so I would consider 1 AP per player. In a four player game, you should be very likely to have one person turn up an AP.


The loitering penalty is heavy, but only on the reduction of treasure. If you play with it, you can likely take a hit or two without affecting the outcome of the game. I am in Jeremy's camp though, and have ditched loitering rules in favor of rules I outlined in the Variant's section. You can read it there if you want to know more.

Also, note that you have to spend positive AP. According to Kenny, if you spend just one AP and the archer uses Fool's Errand (reduces AP by 2), you are now officially loitering.

Edit: Forgot to mention, that if you added 1AP to every hero, traps would not only be brutal, but most would be literally impossible. They're imbalanced enough already.
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I'll have to look into all these variants!
 
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