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Subject: Some of the expansion cards.... rss

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bruno faidutti
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I took a nice picture of the first illustrated cards for the expansion. It has been rejected three times by the BGG moderation, each time for a different and nonsensical reason.

I had first tried to put in the people gallery, as a joke, because there are people on the cards and this game is just about people. Unfortunately, the moderators have no humor.

I've then tried to add it to the game gallery, and was told it has to be in the creative gallery because the expansion was not already published. It's a bit strange that expansions are considered more creative than games.

Anyway, I posted it to the creative gallery, and then it was considered blurry and badly cropped.

It's with this kind of absurd, meaningless and plain arbitrary moderation that we end up with galleries full of artistic and perfectly well cropped pictures of punchboards.

Anyway, it's the very last time I try toi upload a picture in the geek, and from now on I'll post in the forums and link to my site. So, here is my picture: of the upcoming expansion



BTW, Surpisingly, another less interesting picture (unless you have some interest in french beers and pretty girls) had been accepted, this one (I've removed it since, having decided, as a protest against the pictures moderation, to remove all my pictures from the BGG database).


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S. R.
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There are quite a few nonsensical rules here on the Geek.
But then, that shouldn't be said too loudly, as insubordination is not always condoned. In fact, it sometimes goes along with hinting at the possibility of using the door, or closing said door in someones face directly...

Ah well, never been intelligent enough to follow rules, anyways.

But kudos to you, not giving up and trying several times to get these images to us!!
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Wonderfull artwork
 
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Salvador C. Majoral
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What's that mysterious dark card with no character and no name on it??

 
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bruno faidutti
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salva wrote:
What's that mysterious dark card with no character and no name on it??


It goes with the Necromancer ability.
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Salvador C. Majoral
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Thank you for your explanation about "the dark card"!

From the second picture (that one with French beer and pretty girls, which of course we are interested in!:-) we can see in the game aid that there are 12 new characters. Is that right?

Well, so far we know 10: usurper, damned, wise, princess, actress, courtesan, alchemist, necromancer (plus the dark card), gambler and "mécène" (which can translate as sponsor or patron).

Could you tell us the other two and what does the mécène do? Thank you!

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bruno faidutti
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salva wrote:
Thank you for your explanation about "the dark card"!

From the second picture (that one with French beer and pretty girls, which of course we are interested in!:-) we can see in the game aid that there are 12 new characters. Is that right?

Well, so far we know 10: usurper, damned, wise, princess, actress, courtesan, alchemist, necromancer (plus the dark card), gambler and "mécène" (which can translate as sponsor or patron).

Could you tell us the other two and what does the mécène do? Thank you!



As it is, the complete list is not definitely stated, but the most serious candidates are named Gambler and Puppet-Master.

The latter is an idea we had last week-ent at my ludopathic gathering, and it's my favorite so far, but it makes the game feel much more chaotic : Two players of your choice give you one gold each and change seat. Their characters card and money stay where it is. A player, of course, cannot look at his character when sitting on a new seat.

I won't go in the details of all other characters, because I'm not sure that's what the publisher would want.
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Salvador C. Majoral
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If I may suggest something, to make the game more strategic and deep (I know many people like chaos, but I guess most Mascarade fans prefer control) there should be some characters that could choose between different actions (the player must do A or B, but not both).
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Matthew M
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Some content, like reviews and session reports and images, are approved through community vote in our GeekMod system: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekmod

These things aren't reviewed by site administrators. Instead, the result of the community voting determines whether it should be approved or declined. That's what happened here.

In this case I agree with all three decisions. As you acknowledge yourself, it didn't belong in People. The Game category is strictly for components that people will find in the game - these being expansion cards, they would ideally go in the Game gallery for the expansion entry, not for the base game.

The decision to decline for cropping and glare is obviously the most subjective. There is undeniably a significant amount of glare, so for that reason alone I can see why people would vote to decline. Taking a new image to remove the glare and filling more of the frame with the cards will likely result in the image being approved.

The second picture was approved because the focus is on the players and it was submitted to the appropriate People gallery.
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bruno faidutti
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salva wrote:
If I may suggest something, to make the game more strategic and deep (I know many people like chaos, but I guess most Mascarade fans prefer control) there should be some characters that could choose between different actions (the player must do A or B, but not both).


I think it's the error I made with the expansion for Citadels. I wanted more strategic characters, and ended with more complex ones. That's the reason no one ever plays with the expansion characters for Citadels - or at least I don't.

What's great with Mascarade is that the system allows for lots of very simple effects. Expansions are much easier to design and much more refreshing to play than with Citadels, for which I never managed to create a good one. Focusing on simple and easy to explain effects will keep the game fun and accessible. This doesn't necessarily mean less control, and some characters can be simple and highly tactical, but it means avoiding anything that needs more than one or two short sentences to explain.
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Salvador C. Majoral
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faidutti wrote:


I think it's the error I made with the expansion for Citadels. I wanted more strategic characters, and ended with more complex ones. That's the reason no one ever plays with the expansion characters for Citadels - or at least I don't.

What's great with Mascarade is that the system allows for lots of very simple effects. Expansions are much easier to design and much more refreshing to play than with Citadels, for which I never managed to create a good one. Focusing on simple and easy to explain effects will keep the game fun and accessible. This doesn't necessarily mean less control, and some characters can be simple and highly tactical, but it means avoiding anything that needs more than one or two short sentences to explain.


Well, you can include simple characters and complex ones in a single expansion, you should think in every kind of gamer not only in one kind of gamer, there's nothing wrong in variety.
Besides, a character that can choose between 2 actions is not necessarily complex, it can be said in a short sentence: "Take two coins from the bank or take one coin from any player". It becomes very strategical without being complex.
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bruno faidutti
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Octavian wrote:
The decision to decline for cropping and glare is obviously the most subjective. There is undeniably a significant amount of glare, so for that reason alone I can see why people would vote to decline. Taking a new image to remove the glare and filling more of the frame with the cards will likely result in the image being approved.


Yes, but
1) I don't have the cards anymore, the publisher left with them. I playtest with plain cardboard.
2) It would remove the spontaneity of a picture taken in a wink at a convention - and I like this spontaneity.

Octavian wrote:
In this case I agree with all three decisions. As you acknowledge yourself, it didn't belong in People. The Game category is strictly for components that people will find in the game - these being expansion cards, they would ideally go in the Game gallery for the expansion entry, not for the base game.


So far, there's no entry for the expansion, and no need for one. It's always better to keep all the discussions about base game and expansions together. And if the rule says that expansion are more creative than games and must therefore be put in the "creative" category, then the rule is stupid and must be changed. Or at least it must be stated somewhere when posting pictures, because there's absolutely no way to guess it from the guidelines.

For those interested, see the whole discussion there : http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1162031/pictures-moderat...

(and better keep discussing the game here)
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bruno faidutti
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salva wrote:

Well, you can include simple characters and complex ones in a single expansion, you should think in every kind of gamer not only in one kind of gamer, there's nothing wrong in variety.
Besides, a character that can choose between 2 actions is not necessarily complex, it can be said in a short sentence: "Take two coins from the bank or take one coin from any player". It becomes very strategical without being complex.


You're right - and such simple choices are possible in future cards, though there's none so far in the expansion we're working on.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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faidutti wrote:
Octavian wrote:
In this case I agree with all three decisions. As you acknowledge yourself, it didn't belong in People. The Game category is strictly for components that people will find in the game - these being expansion cards, they would ideally go in the Game gallery for the expansion entry, not for the base game.


So far, there's no entry for the expansion, and no need for one. It's always better to keep all the discussions about base game and expansions together.


Sorry, but I'll have to side with Octavian here. If there's no expansion entry, make it. Even if it's not published yet, it doesn't have a name and you don't know when it will be published. Make an entry and call it "Mascarade - upcoming expansion"; you can change the name later. But it allows categorization and makes it easier to locate the information you actually want.

As for keeping the discussions about base game and expansions together - why would that be better? If they're split up, the people who only own the base game, don't have their forums cluttered up by expansion threads, and people who have issues with one expansion don't have to slog through threads about other expansions to find the help they need.
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Joshua H
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faidutti wrote:
BTW, Surpisingly, another less interesting picture (unless you have some interest in french beers and pretty girls) had been accepted


Unfortunately, you'll find that this is exactly the reason that photo was accepted.
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bruno faidutti
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
faidutti wrote:
Octavian wrote:
In this case I agree with all three decisions. As you acknowledge yourself, it didn't belong in People. The Game category is strictly for components that people will find in the game - these being expansion cards, they would ideally go in the Game gallery for the expansion entry, not for the base game.


So far, there's no entry for the expansion, and no need for one. It's always better to keep all the discussions about base game and expansions together.


Sorry, but I'll have to side with Octavian here. If there's no expansion entry, make it. Even if it's not published yet, it doesn't have a name and you don't know when it will be published. Make an entry and call it "Mascarade - upcoming expansion"; you can change the name later. But it allows categorization and makes it easier to locate the information you actually want.

As for keeping the discussions about base game and expansions together - why would that be better? If they're split up, the people who only own the base game, don't have their forums cluttered up by expansion threads, and people who have issues with one expansion don't have to slog through threads about other expansions to find the help they need.


Of course, if there had been an expansion entry, I would had posted the pictures there - but it's hard to make one when the contents, name and publication date have not been settled.

Having separate entries for expansions might be good for major hits with hundreds of discussion but for a simple game with only one post every other week, like Mascarade, I would rather have everything kept together. Not a major issue though, since it seems that now threads from the expansion page appear on the base game forums - or so I think.

As a general rule, I think the BGG is dividing too much, with specific entries for one card promotiona item, with separate entries for different editions of the same game, etc. But, her again, the changes from last year or two have made links between games mir obvious, so it's not a major issue for me.
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Bjørnar Løseth
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faidutti wrote:

As a general rule, I think the BGG is dividing too much, with specific entries for one card promotiona item, with separate entries for different editions of the same game, etc.


My thoughts too. I actually _hate_ that the 'Board Game Owned' sum is games + expansions. That makes no sense in my book.
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These cards look GREAT!!! Any idea how much the expansion will cost and a more specific release date?
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bruno faidutti
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yatescory wrote:
These cards look GREAT!!! Any idea how much the expansion will cost and a more specific release date?


No idea of the price, you must ask the publisher. It ought to be released in september.
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Too bad about the release date. I would like it for August so it can be a key part fof my GenCon bounty.
 
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faidutti wrote:






I was at "Paris est ludique" and had all ten cards explained to me.

Do the BGG-rules allow people to reveal this information?

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It has been done quite often.
But I'd ask permission of the publisher/author first, to be on the safe side. On the other hand, if they explain it willingly at fairs and the like, they usually know that the information will be out there (on the net), anyways...
 
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Travahar wrote:

I was at "Paris est ludique" and had all ten cards explained to me.

Do the BGG-rules allow people to reveal this information?



The instructions I got at paris Est Ludique was to reveal them very progressively in order to keep the buzz going..... Let's start with Comedian and Puppet Master ;-)
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I'm curious to listen about Comedian and Puppet Master then ....
 
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af7hqs wrote:
I'm curious to listen about Comedian and Puppet Master then ....


Comedian/Actress: makes the same action as the last action performed
Puppet master: chooses two players who swap their places
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