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-1) Roots! This is where many of the beloved tweaks originated:
--jump icon on bottom right of crisis card via Caprica does NOT get ignored
--'improved' Human Fleet
--test bed for CL and the Motives we know today
--automatic handoff of loyalty cards
--10 Qcard hand limit
--new ICs, which can be houseruled despite not having the new physical IC cards that say to EXclude DD.

0) Plastic basestars. If someone considers the plastic cents a major feature, then this gets bumped up to an actual reason

1*) New character cards, and Ellen has more bite with the new Treachery.

2*) Pegasus CL are still tried and true, but exciting in contrast to the new ones and new Motives.

3) Treachery reveal power works better with Daybreak Treachery.

4) There isn't a single crisis card in Daybreak that gives all players Treachery, which is one way how treachery can shine. Only the 3 - Personal Vices brown card has an effect like that.

5) New super crisis cards here. 2 of them dole out Treachery (hand or into DD), help dilute the deck against Massive Assault, and include unique Event ones.

6) 9 new Qcards. Some very unique abilities there too, but also goes even further to keep cards like Pres. Pardon and ABF from being spammed, even with a 10 Qcard hand limit.

7) food crisis card ratio is still maintained.

8) There are no Movement abilities in Daybreak. Nowhere else really, as these are exclusive to Pegasus.

9) Even though Daybreak skill cards add redundancy, the new skill cards here provide even more of them in exciting ways... Critical Situation is a self-XO for more actions (can't be done out of turn, but doesn't require any trust), Prev. Policy is a gamble to save resources, Calculations and Jury rigged are inverses to SP and DE respectively (lower benefit but played after roll, while more benefit but has to be played before skill check).

10) A lot here, so I'm counting these as 2 reasons... At Any Cost adds new dimensions for the Daybreak Treachery. New piloting requires pilots to be in space and gives more incentive and advantages to have manned vipers. 4 out of the 5 colors gives other players something to do when "playing before a skill check". Oh... having more 1s gives Adama's special ability more influence.

10) Reckless skill check can be benign, but can also screw with the situation.

11) new Dcards for variety. Binary Star can clash with Dradis Contact, while Misjump being a 0 can introduce some interesting gambits.

12*) Peggy's still fun to play with. If you don't like the issues brought up about damage sponge-hood, then feel free to leave it out as a variant, or use any of the variants posted on the Pegasus forum that help address that.

13) Personal preference, but I'd still like to play one game of NC/IN for every 5 games of Kobol/Earth. Makes you think outside the box and screws with pilots. On NC, Mutiny is now a new "resource" the humans need to manage, making it more difficult now.

14) Consult The Oracle Qcard can be used for Missions, so you can see if someone buried a good Mission card, or otherwise try to play that against that player

* Admittedly, you can always print and play these


EDIT: 5/12/2014 added #14
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ackmondual wrote:
8) There are no Movement abilities in Daybreak. Nowhere else really, as these are exclusive to Pegasus.


Leoben's once per turn ability. My favourite CL, partially because of that.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
-1) Roots! This is where many of the beloved tweaks originated:
--jump icon on bottom right of crisis card via Caprica does NOT get ignored
--'improved' Human Fleet
--test bed for CL and the Motives we know today
--automatic handoff of loyalty cards
--10 Qcard hand limit
--new ICs, which can be houseruled despite not having the new physical IC cards that say to EXclude DD.

0) Plastic basestars. If someone considers the plastic cents a major feature, then this gets bumped up to an actual reason

1*) New character cards, and Ellen has more bite with the new Treachery.

2*) Pegasus CL are still tried and true, but exciting in contrast to the new ones and new Motives.

3) Treachery reveal power works better with Daybreak Treachery.

4) There isn't a single crisis card in Daybreak that gives all players Treachery, which is one way how treachery can shine. Only the 3 - Personal Vices brown card has an effect like that.

5) New super crisis cards here. 2 of them dole out Treachery (hand or into DD), help dilute the deck against Massive Assault, and include unique Event ones.

6) 9 new Qcards. Some very unique abilities there too, but also goes even further to keep cards like Pres. Pardon and ABF from being spammed, even with a 10 Qcard hand limit.

7) food crisis card ratio is still maintained.

8) There are no Movement abilities in Daybreak. Nowhere else really, as these are exclusive to Pegasus.

9) Even though Daybreak skill cards add redundancy, the new skill cards here provide even more of them in exciting ways... Critical Situation is a self-XO for more actions (can't be done out of turn, but doesn't require any trust), Prev. Policy is a gamble to save resources, Calculations and Jury rigged are inverses to SP and DE respectively (lower benefit but played after roll, while more benefit but has to be played before skill check).

10) A lot here, so I'm counting these as 2 reasons... At Any Cost adds new dimensions for the Daybreak Treachery. New piloting requires pilots to be in space and gives more incentive and advantages to have manned vipers. 4 out of the 5 colors gives other players something to do when "playing before a skill check". Oh... having more 1s gives Adama's special ability more influence.

10) Reckless skill check can be benign, but can also screw with the situation.

11) new Dcards for variety. Binary Star can clash with Dradis Contact, while Misjump being a 0 can introduce some interesting gambits.

12*) Peggy's still fun to play with. If you don't like the issues brought up about damage sponge-hood, then feel free to leave it out as a variant, or use any of the variants posted on the Pegasus forum that help address that.

13) Personal preference, but I'd still like to play one game of NC/IN for every 5 games of Kobol/Earth. Makes you think outside the box and screws with pilots.



* Admittedly, you can always print and play these



2 - I think Cavil and Caprica 6 are poor choices for Daybreaks motives. Ideally, you want to choose Cavil if you draw a hostile agenda or Caprica 6 if drawing a sympathetic agenda. With Daybreak, being stuck on team human sucks if you're cavil. Leoben however, is perfect for any agenda and probably the most interesting cylon leader to play.

3 - I think adding treachery to everyone's hand through crises is potentially problematic. This destiny deck is really really mean, providing unrevealed cylons with treachery cards early is very dangerous for team human. In daybreak, crises only target 1 player for treachery draws: this makes it easier for the crew to determine where the treachery cards come from. The treachery deck (in daybreak) slowly builds momentum throughout the game, and once personal vices comes out: treachery begins to play a huge effect on the game. Personal vices is unlikely to come out the first time destiny deck is constructed, but it can, and when it does: treachery snowballs. In Pegasus, it makes sense to have crises dole out treachery to every player: to give out reckless skill checks to other players.

6 - The new quorum cards are far too efficient. One card offers 1 fuel or 1 food with almost 0 downside (discard 2 random cards, draw 2 treachery)--you do not need to roll a die. A cylon president may be tempted to do this to draw treachery, but he will likely be unable to convince everyone to choose food over fuel. A cylon probably does not want to give the fleet fuel, if ever, so it's probably best not played. Other quorum cards are present simply for dilution, for example, Eulogy, resources for Galactica and probation.

Overall, I don't have a huge problem with these cards, but I think it's a little too strong to have a card that replenishes a fuel with 0 downside. Also, popular influence allows other players to control what goes into a presidents hand: other players can discard arrest orders or pardons, which prevents the president from abusing the quorum deck and cycling for repeat cards. This works best when the skill decks aren't far too diluted, so there are repeat plays of popular influence: and there will be, because it is such a fun card for anyone to play. The player playing popular influence can also tell the crew: "I gave the president an inspirational speech but she/he is deciding to not use it. Let's take the presidency."

8 - 10, new skill cards, generally. The movement abilities aren't bad, but I think the reckless cards are potentially problematic. At Any Cost is potentially too strong now that treachery cards are 3, 4, 5 strength-- savvy human players can opt to hold the high treachery cards for key skill checks. In addition, for earth, the rules allow reckless cards to be used for missions. The problem with reckless cards is there is little downside to their use when compared to their potential gain.

I do have a slight problem with preventative policy, in that, at least in my experience they're more often used for their value than their effect (I usually see preventative policy used when resources are at 1 or 2). Also, critical situation is very very strong for players with tactics.

Calculations is neat, but people rarely use them (because often they see it will have no beneficial effect). I think it would have been better if it was a play before card that is +1 or -1. For cylon players it's best holding onto or for spiking.

11 - I don't think the destination deck ever needed variety. Misjump is there purely for Helena Cain's OPG (a character that should probably not be chosen because of the Ability to restore OPG). Misjump can potentially be useful for the last jump (e.g. You need 2 distance to reach 8, but you draw a 1 and a 0-miss jump) but both of these circumstances are rare. I'm unsure why they added destinations, I don't think players were getting bored with that content. If anything, it made the game easier by providing more 3s.

12 - Peggy is also another issue with an unbalance between upside and downsides. Peggy is totally pro human. Peggy is supposedly balanced because it's downsides can hit Pegasus or hit friendlies: it's partially the reason why the Calculations card even exists in the first place. However, I don't believe I've ever seen Peggy hit a civ ship and only once have I seen it hit vipers. Ideally, I think the designers hoped people would use calculations to ensure this effect: but, it's not worth soft revealing to destroy a civ and you have to hope for a low roll to modify.

As for my personal preferences, I don't include Pegasus entirely because I believe executions remove much of the mystery of the game, if playing without exodus remember that an execution is a permanent loyalty check. Pegasus crisis cards offer many opportunities for executions and thats the biggest reason I don't mix Pegasus with Daybreak.

IMO, execution is only an absolute necessity, thematic and appropriate when playing with New Caprica. This is the whole reason the mechanic exists: in New Caprica, you probably should execute the admiral to ensure that he is not a cylon. However, then do you now trust the new admiral? Hmmm, maybe we should murder him, too... If you can afford the morale loss. Pegasus encourages rampant murder, because a sleeper agent is potentially game-ending.

Without New Caprica, execution is not a necessity. It also has very little lasting effect and removes the best feature of the base game: never knowing for sure. Also, a sleeper agent isn't potentially game-ending like it is in New Caprica. You can effectively contain a sleeper agent by brigging them, unless of course it is Boomer or NuHelo (they benefit by remaining human In the brig because of their scouting ability and their crushing OPGs that can be used without an action).

Edit: forgot to mention that I use the Pegasus ICs (this is a must) and plastic base stars. I don't use Dee, Cain or Cally though because the execution mechanic is included on their character sheet. Kat is in, though, who arguably was designed to sabotage Pegasus, by making it fire on itself or friendly vipers. I don't use the make players draw treachery cylon card: it's a crappy reveal ability. Ellen Tigh is available as well, but with daybreak treachery: she is a hindrance even if she is a loyal human (entirely thematic, but just increases the difficulty for humans, not a bad thing--but I probably wouldn't try her again).

Derp. I include all CL, too. But choosing Cavil and 6 is a gamble as they can't conform to different agendas as easily as the other leaders can--Cavil is too aggressive where 6 is rather helpful. All other Cylon Leaders have abilities/traits that can better adjust to the motives they are given.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
2 - I think Cavil and Caprica 6 are poor choices for Daybreaks motives. Ideally, you want to choose Cavil if you draw a hostile agenda or Caprica 6 if drawing a sympathetic agenda. With Daybreak, being stuck on team human sucks if you're cavil. Leoben however, is perfect for any agenda and probably the most interesting cylon leader to play.
That was supposed to be the main counterbalance for Cavil. People swooned over him upon seeing his character sheet seeing how direct his abilities are, and how his weakness isn't that crippling, but then they look at the Agendas and notice that it's only really applicable towards 2 of them. The rest of them are resource manipulations that Primacy isn't too great for. And this is a GOOD THING IMO, as we don't need OP CL that are "go to" characters. We already have several top tiered characters that get picked too often as is.

Cap6's special is much more applicable, but is balanced out by weaker OPG and not as bad weakness, whereas Leoben's special is indeed very nice, but can be very crippling.

Kwijiboe wrote:
3 - I think adding treachery to everyone's hand through crises is potentially problematic. This destiny deck is really really mean, providing unrevealed cylons with treachery cards early is very dangerous for team human. In daybreak, crises only target 1 player for treachery draws: this makes it easier for the crew to determine where the treachery cards come from. The treachery deck (in daybreak) slowly builds momentum throughout the game, and once personal vices comes out: treachery begins to play a huge effect on the game. Personal vices is unlikely to come out the first time destiny deck is constructed, but it can, and when it does: treachery snowballs. In Pegasus, it makes sense to have crises dole out treachery to every player: to give out reckless skill checks to other players.
Having only one player getting Treachery gives less chance for players to sabotage, of which a chief complaint with Daybreak is it's harder to do so.

Kwijiboe wrote:
6 - The new quorum cards are far too efficient. One card offers 1 fuel or 1 food with almost 0 downside (discard 2 random cards, draw 2 treachery)--you do not need to roll a die. A cylon president may be tempted to do this to draw treachery, but he will likely be unable to convince everyone to choose food over fuel. A cylon probably does not want to give the fleet fuel, if ever, so it's probably best not played. Other quorum cards are present simply for dilution, for example, Eulogy, resources for Galactica and probation.

Overall, I don't have a huge problem with these cards, but I think it's a little too strong to have a card that replenishes a fuel with 0 downside. Also, popular influence allows other players to control what goes into a presidents hand: other players can discard arrest orders or pardons, which prevents the president from abusing the quorum deck and cycling for repeat cards. This works best when the skill decks aren't far too diluted, so there are repeat plays of popular influence: and there will be, because it is such a fun card for anyone to play. The player playing popular influence can also tell the crew: "I gave the president an inspirational speech but she/he is deciding to not use it. Let's take the presidency."
Now there are 26, not just 17 Qcards, so it becomes harder to abuse that. If anything, I'd argue the powerful skill cards just from Daybreak pose more problems.


Kwijiboe wrote:
8 - 10, new skill cards, generally. The movement abilities aren't bad, but I think the reckless cards are potentially problematic. At Any Cost is potentially too strong now that treachery cards are 3, 4, 5 strength-- savvy human players can opt to hold the high treachery cards for key skill checks. In addition, for earth, the rules allow reckless cards to be used for missions. The problem with reckless cards is there is little downside to their use when compared to their potential gain.
While the average strength count in Daybreak Treachery is higher than Pegasus, there are a lot (half the deck) of 0s in the Treachery deck, so odds are, it'll even out anyways.

And you mentioned that cards like Personal Vices and A Better Machine can snowball, so I'd be cautious about risking that for the long haul

Kwijiboe wrote:
I do have a slight problem with preventative policy, in that, at least in my experience they're more often used for their value than their effect (I usually see preventative policy used when resources are at 1 or 2). Also, critical situation is very very strong for players with tactics.
It's sort of designed that you need to combo it (e.g. Boomer Recon a crisis card and suggesting that the next player play Prev. Pol. on Morale). If you can pick with absolute certainty of which resource it is, then it sort of goes back to your comments about things being too OP, like Reckless abilities. Sidestepping the loss of a resource for sure is really OP.

Kwijiboe wrote:
Calculations is neat, but people rarely use them (because often they see it will have no beneficial effect). I think it would have been better if it was a play before card that is +1 or -1. For cylon players it's best holding onto or for spiking.
failing an FTL Control roll, or some other crucial roll can be worth its weight in gold. And the reason Calculations doesn't get played as often is 1) there's only 3 of them in the deck, and 2) unlike SP, the beauty of it is you don't have to commit it. You only use it when it will make a difference. This lets you stretch it out further vs. something like SP. The only thing I can say is roll MANY TIMES, and you'll come across more situation where you were only 1 away. Otherwise, you let an action and even a SP go to waste.

Kwijiboe wrote:
11 - I don't think the destination deck ever needed variety. Misjump is there purely for Helena Cain's OPG (a character that should probably not be chosen because of the Ability to restore OPG). Misjump can potentially be useful for the last jump (e.g. You need 2 distance to reach 8, but you draw a 1 and a 0-miss jump) but both of these circumstances are rare. I'm unsure why they added destinations, I don't think players were getting bored with that content. If anything, it made the game easier by providing more 3s.
There's only one new 3. There are three that are 1s or 2s. And FTR, I do like how Misjump adds that element of gambling.

Kwijiboe wrote:
12 - Peggy is also another issue with an unbalance between upside and downsides. Peggy is totally pro human. Peggy is supposedly balanced because it's downsides can hit Pegasus or hit friendlies: it's partially the reason why the Calculations card even exists in the first place. However, I don't believe I've ever seen Peggy hit a civ ship and only once have I seen it hit vipers. Ideally, I think the designers hoped people would use calculations to ensure this effect: but, it's not worth soft revealing to destroy a civ and you have to hope for a low roll to modify.
If you want to use bad rolls for cylon purposes, you're better off rolling at -3 for FTL Control. Peggy's main cylon use is for Airlock, a dumping ground for Treachery, and get their effects into play.

Kwijiboe wrote:
As for my personal preferences, I don't include Pegasus entirely because I believe executions remove much of the mystery of the game, if playing without exodus remember that an execution is a permanent loyalty check. Pegasus crisis cards offer many opportunities for executions and thats the biggest reason I don't mix Pegasus with Daybreak.
They're not THAT many. Only one is guaranteed. The rest require a die roll or sorts. And even then, there were plenty of ways to get hosed without Pegasus.... you get hit with the Mutr., and through no fault of your own, you lose titles which changes the whole course of the game. Or, you get brigged from a random crisis card. Being Brigged can be worse then executed, especially given how some situations it's better to Brig a cylon than execute him.

Also, it's been brought up that executions can be pro-cylon too.

Kwijiboe wrote:
Without New Caprica, execution is not a necessity. It also has very little lasting effect and removes the best feature of the base game: never knowing for sure. Also, a sleeper agent isn't potentially game-ending like it is in New Caprica. You can effectively contain a sleeper agent by brigging them, unless of course it is Boomer or NuHelo (they benefit by remaining human I'm the brig because of their scouting ability and their crushing OPGs that can be used without an action).
I'd beg to differ... I wouldn't want Cultar stealing mt, Helo being able cause guaranteed resource lose from crisis cards with choices, Boomer auto-failing something crucial, or Ellen borrowing a title and doing evil with that. In some situations, the cylons clearly made themselves known, so why even bother pretending? It can be the only way to strip the presidency if C1 is out of order, or it's also an alternative if AQ gets damaged.
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ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
2 - I think Cavil and Caprica 6 are poor choices for Daybreaks motives. Ideally, you want to choose Cavil if you draw a hostile agenda or Caprica 6 if drawing a sympathetic agenda. With Daybreak, being stuck on team human sucks if you're cavil. Leoben however, is perfect for any agenda and probably the most interesting cylon leader to play.
That was supposed to be the main counterbalance for Cavil. People swooned over him upon seeing his character sheet seeing how direct his abilities are, and how his weakness isn't that crippling, but then they look at the Agendas and notice that it's only really applicable towards 2 of them. The rest of them are resource manipulations that Primacy isn't too great for. And this is a GOOD THING IMO, as we don't need OP CL that are "go to" characters. We already have several top tiered characters that get picked too often as is.

Cap6's special is much more applicable, but is balanced out by weaker OPG and not as bad weakness, whereas Leoben's special is indeed very nice, but can be very crippling.


I was a little unclear. I was not pointing out that you should not include Cavil or Caprica 6, I was just pointing out that they were designed for Hostile/Sympathetic agendas from Pegasus. I let people play any leader they want, but its a big gamble choosing either Cavil or Caprica 6 with Daybreak's motives. Other leaders aren't pushed too far in one direction or the other, their abilities are ambigious enough so that they can help/hurt depending on their motives.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
3 - I think adding treachery to everyone's hand through crises is potentially problematic. This destiny deck is really really mean, providing unrevealed cylons with treachery cards early is very dangerous for team human. In daybreak, crises only target 1 player for treachery draws: this makes it easier for the crew to determine where the treachery cards come from. The treachery deck (in daybreak) slowly builds momentum throughout the game, and once personal vices comes out: treachery begins to play a huge effect on the game. Personal vices is unlikely to come out the first time destiny deck is constructed, but it can, and when it does: treachery snowballs. In Pegasus, it makes sense to have crises dole out treachery to every player: to give out reckless skill checks to other players.
Having only one player getting Treachery gives less chance for players to sabotage, of which a chief complaint with Daybreak is it's harder to do so.


It is much much easier to sabotage skill checks when playing Daybreak. There's a number of reasons:

1) If Cottle is in the game, he will likely be funneling skill cards to players that do not have that skill card in their skillset: additionally, Cottle will likely be adding skill cards that he normally does not normally draw.

Romo Lampkin, also is an interesting character that seems to be designed for using consolidating power skill cards. His draw is Yellow/Purple, and the Romo Lampkin character will feel he can't help unless he plays Consolidate power to diversify his skillset.

2) The "Install Upgrades" card from Daybreak funnels engineering cards to the current player after a skill check passes (2 cards) or fails. This provides cover for support characters to sabotage with blue cards--normally, sabotaging with these cards is difficult because there are probably only 1 or 2 characters with blue in their skill set.

3) Not necessarily skill check hidden sabotage, but Dogfight allows a player to remove cards to either help/hurt the skill check. Also, they can send pilots to sickbay because they are eligible targets for the Dogfight card.

4) Force their hand provides excuses for cylons to get Mutiny cards in their hands (Cylons want mutiny cards, they will likely play them to "waste" their turn and/or go to Press Room to dump their mutiny card and give it to someone else which, in effect, wastes two players turns.) Alternatively, this card, forces humans to waste additional cards, and or draw mutiny cards: which is also bad for team human.

Note on mutiny cards: Cylons should embrace the opportunity to discard 0 strength treachery to get their hands on mutiny cards. You can play the mutiny card to great effect, or dump mutiny on someone else via the press room.

5) Quick thinking is excellent. It gives players an excuse to take cards that don't match their skillset into their hand, this also allows that player to sabotage with that card.

The long and short of it is this: at the start of the game, it is indeed hard to sabotage. However, as treachery builds and as skill cards end up in players' hands where they don't belong: sabotage becomes increasingly easier. Cylon players should try to sabotage early skill checks with common colors if possible: Yellow, Green or Purple. Once humans know there is a cylon out there, it causes a huge psychological effect on the humans: they overshoot skillchecks, are scared to XO, and act selfishly.

If you are a Cylon player and are given treachery cards via a crises or other means, once personal vices comes out, you have the excuse you need to unload the treachery cards in your possession: because they cannot be tracked to you, they could have come from anyone.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
6 - The new quorum cards are far too efficient. One card offers 1 fuel or 1 food with almost 0 downside (discard 2 random cards, draw 2 treachery)--you do not need to roll a die. A cylon president may be tempted to do this to draw treachery, but he will likely be unable to convince everyone to choose food over fuel. A cylon probably does not want to give the fleet fuel, if ever, so it's probably best not played. Other quorum cards are present simply for dilution, for example, Eulogy, resources for Galactica and probation.

Overall, I don't have a huge problem with these cards, but I think it's a little too strong to have a card that replenishes a fuel with 0 downside. Also, popular influence allows other players to control what goes into a presidents hand: other players can discard arrest orders or pardons, which prevents the president from abusing the quorum deck and cycling for repeat cards. This works best when the skill decks aren't far too diluted, so there are repeat plays of popular influence: and there will be, because it is such a fun card for anyone to play. The player playing popular influence can also tell the crew: "I gave the president an inspirational speech but she/he is deciding to not use it. Let's take the presidency."
Now there are 26, not just 17 Qcards, so it becomes harder to abuse that. If anything, I'd argue the powerful skill cards just from Daybreak pose more problems.


Which skill cards? How do they pose problems? The only potentially problematic skill card for me is "Change of Plans" but I think its offset by limiting skill cards to "Human Players."

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
8 - 10, new skill cards, generally. The movement abilities aren't bad, but I think the reckless cards are potentially problematic. At Any Cost is potentially too strong now that treachery cards are 3, 4, 5 strength-- savvy human players can opt to hold the high treachery cards for key skill checks. In addition, for earth, the rules allow reckless cards to be used for missions. The problem with reckless cards is there is little downside to their use when compared to their potential gain.
While the average strength count in Daybreak Treachery is higher than Pegasus, there are a lot (half the deck) of 0s in the Treachery deck, so odds are, it'll even out anyways.

And you mentioned that cards like Personal Vices and A Better Machine can snowball, so I'd be cautious about risking that for the long haul


I don't believe it will balance it, the Daybreak treachery deck has 8-3's, 3-4's, and 3-5's. I don't recall for certain, but the treachery deck from Pegasus had perhaps 4-3s. I don't believe it will balance out.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
I do have a slight problem with preventative policy, in that, at least in my experience they're more often used for their value than their effect (I usually see preventative policy used when resources are at 1 or 2). Also, critical situation is very very strong for players with tactics.
It's sort of designed that you need to combo it (e.g. Boomer Recon a crisis card and suggesting that the next player play Prev. Pol. on Morale). If you can pick with absolute certainty of which resource it is, then it sort of goes back to your comments about things being too OP, like Reckless abilities. Sidestepping the loss of a resource for sure is really OP.


This is a sound strategy, and I see no problem with it, but if I have a 4 or 5 strength "Preventative Policy" it will probably not be in my hand for long because I will have used it for other skill checks. Perhaps I'll hold onto a 3 for this strategy, but sometimes throwing a 3 in a check is more helpful than holding onto it. Just the same, it's not like we'll be able to use this strategy every turn because there are only 3 preventative policies in the deck.

Preventative policy, to me, seems like an effort to give the president to make use of never utilizing his/her "movement" step since they are always squatting on the Quorum Chamber. I'm not sure I'd give up a 3, 4, or 5 value card unless I knew for certain about the value on the card. You can get mileage out of it for sure if someone ahead of you in turn order can scout, but by the end of the game (if you've been scouting diligently) you may very well be out of scouts.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
Calculations is neat, but people rarely use them (because often they see it will have no beneficial effect). I think it would have been better if it was a play before card that is +1 or -1. For cylon players it's best holding onto or for spiking.
failing an FTL Control roll, or some other crucial roll can be worth its weight in gold. And the reason Calculations doesn't get played as often is 1) there's only 3 of them in the deck, and 2) unlike SP, the beauty of it is you don't have to commit it. You only use it when it will make a difference. This lets you stretch it out further vs. something like SP. The only thing I can say is roll MANY TIMES, and you'll come across more situation where you were only 1 away. Otherwise, you let an action and even a SP go to waste.


Calculations is indeed a wonderful card. However, it changes a core dynamic from the base game. I.e. "Do I want to put this 3-strength Declare emergency in now...or hold onto it and reduce the skillcheck by 2...I better put it in now for its value." Nearly every 3,4,5 makes the player go through this "use it lose it" process in the base game: Investigative Committee, Declare Emergency, Strategic Planning, and Scientific Research. With Calculations, there is no risk/reward process involved, therefore it never hits the discard pile unless deemed necessary by the player. I don't particularly enjoy the skill cards that are held by players the entire game, and ultimately, seldom used or never cycled through the decks. This is, of course, my opinion. However, I think the regret/satisfaction players feel for using a skill card for its text rather than its value is a rewarding experience. Pegasus also added "Major Victory" that has an instant reward for playing it after. I much prefer the cards that required players to weigh the differences between using a card for its strength or its value. But, perhaps that's just me! Although, you did say you enjoyed the gambling aspects of this game.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
11 - I don't think the destination deck ever needed variety. Misjump is there purely for Helena Cain's OPG (a character that should probably not be chosen because of the Ability to restore OPG). Misjump can potentially be useful for the last jump (e.g. You need 2 distance to reach 8, but you draw a 1 and a 0-miss jump) but both of these circumstances are rare. I'm unsure why they added destinations, I don't think players were getting bored with that content. If anything, it made the game easier by providing more 3s.
There's only one new 3. There are three that are 1s or 2s. And FTR, I do like how Misjump adds that element of gambling.


I looked through the Pegasus destinations, they're alright, but I'm still not convinced whether they add anything to the base game destinations. One thing to note is that they don't require risking raptors/destroying raptors and raptors are vital to human wins in the base game.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
12 - Peggy is also another issue with an unbalance between upside and downsides. Peggy is totally pro human. Peggy is supposedly balanced because it's downsides can hit Pegasus or hit friendlies: it's partially the reason why the Calculations card even exists in the first place. However, I don't believe I've ever seen Peggy hit a civ ship and only once have I seen it hit vipers. Ideally, I think the designers hoped people would use calculations to ensure this effect: but, it's not worth soft revealing to destroy a civ and you have to hope for a low roll to modify.
If you want to use bad rolls for cylon purposes, you're better off rolling at -3 for FTL Control. Peggy's main cylon use is for Airlock, a dumping ground for Treachery, and get their effects into play.


Peggy is 100% human badassery, I would only be add the Pegasus board if Humans never win. In addition, execution mechanics ruin (IMO) the best aspect of this game: paranoia and hidden sabotage. (More on that later).

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
As for my personal preferences, I don't include Pegasus entirely because I believe executions remove much of the mystery of the game, if playing without exodus remember that an execution is a permanent loyalty check. Pegasus crisis cards offer many opportunities for executions and thats the biggest reason I don't mix Pegasus with Daybreak.
They're not THAT many. Only one is guaranteed. The rest require a die roll or sorts. And even then, there were plenty of ways to get hosed without Pegasus.... you get hit with the Mutr., and through no fault of your own, you lose titles which changes the whole course of the game. Or, you get brigged from a random crisis card. Being Brigged can be worse then executed, especially given how some situations it's better to Brig a cylon than execute him.

Also, it's been brought up that executions can be pro-cylon too.


Executions are never good for Cylons. The primary reason is that it completely removes suspicion from the executed human player. That player, now known as a 100% loyal human, can be targeted with XOs without fear of being a cylon. They may also entrust that player with certain tasks and responsibilities. Without Executions, you will never know for sure: suspicion and uncertainty are the best tools for unrevealed cylons. The loss of a morale and that player's skill cards will never counterbalance the boon that human team is granted through an execution: a human they can trust.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
Without New Caprica, execution is not a necessity. It also has very little lasting effect and removes the best feature of the base game: never knowing for sure. Also, a sleeper agent isn't potentially game-ending like it is in New Caprica. You can effectively contain a sleeper agent by brigging them, unless of course it is Boomer or NuHelo (they benefit by remaining human I'm the brig because of their scouting ability and their crushing OPGs that can be used without an action).
I'd beg to differ... I wouldn't want Cultar stealing mt, Helo being able cause guaranteed resource lose from crisis cards with choices, Boomer auto-failing something crucial, or Ellen borrowing a title and doing evil with that. In some situations, the cylons clearly made themselves known, so why even bother pretending? It can be the only way to strip the presidency if C1 is out of order, or it's also an alternative if AQ gets damaged.


Cultar will only ever steal one MT, and then he will likely be immediately brigged by the crew. Sure, he can reveal, but most cylons want to time their reveals strategically, so Cultar would have to plan ahead of time: if he pulls it off, awesome. If he does steal MTs, "A Second Chance" can easily restore a player's stolen OPG with some cooperation. You should note that Cultar cannot easily draw tactics, so he can't get his hands on A Second Chance to prevent players from regaining their OPGs. There is also a Demetrius mission to help restore players' OPGs.

If a cylon player wants to play from the brig, he should be allowed to, most characters are not strong when brigged for thematic reasons while others are. If Base Helo wants to waste turns in the brig waiting to use his OPG to change a player's choice, he can do so--he will likely be wasting valuable revealed cylon turns doing so, however. It's ultimately a gamble on his part. Cylon Boomer, is designed to be effective in the brig whether she is a human or a Cylon. If she is a Cylon, there's also nothing wrong with her waiting for the opportunity to use her OPG--again, she has to weigh her options similarly to Helo.

Minor tangent: Why not send human Cultar on a mission to the brig to steal some miracle tokens, hahaha.

For the most part, however, a brigged Cylon is crippled. They're often forced to reveal because they have no other options. If a Cylon player wants to waste his time in the brig, that's good for me--sure his OPG is worriesome, but you will have knowledge of the threat and can plan for it.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
2 - I think Cavil and Caprica 6 are poor choices for Daybreaks motives. Ideally, you want to choose Cavil if you draw a hostile agenda or Caprica 6 if drawing a sympathetic agenda. With Daybreak, being stuck on team human sucks if you're cavil. Leoben however, is perfect for any agenda and probably the most interesting cylon leader to play.
That was supposed to be the main counterbalance for Cavil. People swooned over him upon seeing his character sheet seeing how direct his abilities are, and how his weakness isn't that crippling, but then they look at the Agendas and notice that it's only really applicable towards 2 of them. The rest of them are resource manipulations that Primacy isn't too great for. And this is a GOOD THING IMO, as we don't need OP CL that are "go to" characters. We already have several top tiered characters that get picked too often as is.

Cap6's special is much more applicable, but is balanced out by weaker OPG and not as bad weakness, whereas Leoben's special is indeed very nice, but can be very crippling.


I was a little unclear. I was not pointing out that you should not include Cavil or Caprica 6, I was just pointing out that they were designed for Hostile/Sympathetic agendas from Pegasus. I let people play any leader they want, but its a big gamble choosing either Cavil or Caprica 6 with Daybreak's motives. Other leaders aren't pushed too far in one direction or the other, their abilities are ambigious enough so that they can help/hurt depending on their motives.
nothing new here... there are characters that work better as cylons or humans, but since you need to pick your character before getting Loyalty cards, you need to take a chance anyways.

And I was pointing out that even if the Motives don't support it, just pick the characters you like. The Motives are designed that they're not that easy to win right away anyways. It's akin to someone picking Baltar or Boomer b/c they want to be a cylon, but end up not becoming one. It's more important to manage your risks and expectations rather than trying to plan out everything ahead of time.

Kwijiboe wrote:
It is much much easier to sabotage skill checks when playing Daybreak. There's a number of reasons:

1) If Cottle is in the game, he will likely be funneling skill cards to players that do not have that skill card in their skillset: additionally, Cottle will likely be adding skill cards that he normally does not normally draw.
Ellen can also funnel cards from her hand to others. She may need to be follow others, but OTOH, it doesn't take an action.

Kwijiboe wrote:
Romo Lampkin, also is an interesting character that seems to be designed for using consolidating power skill cards. His draw is Yellow/Purple, and the Romo Lampkin character will feel he can't help unless he plays Consolidate power to diversify his skillset.
If you're a Polly that only draws 1 green, it's not that hard to convince others you didn't draw an XO. And the flipside of Romo is he gets the same label as Boomer where not drawing any XO naturally is an awful thing. I don't quite agree with this, but that's for another thread.

Kwijiboe wrote:
2) The "Install Upgrades" card from Daybreak funnels engineering cards to the current player after a skill check passes (2 cards) or fails. This provides cover for support characters to sabotage with blue cards--normally, sabotaging with these cards is difficult because there are probably only 1 or 2 characters with blue in their skill set.
There's still a paper trail as you know who drew the blue though.

Kwijiboe wrote:
3) Not necessarily skill check hidden sabotage, but Dogfight allows a player to remove cards to either help/hurt the skill check. Also, they can send pilots to sickbay because they are eligible targets for the Dogfight card.
I guess I'll have to play more, but I have yet to see a desperation situation where a pilot needed to be targeted by Dogfight. The fact that this can't been done without outing you, 'nuf said.

Kwijiboe wrote:
4) Force their hand provides excuses for cylons to get Mutiny cards in their hands (Cylons want mutiny cards, they will likely play them to "waste" their turn and/or go to Press Room to dump their mutiny card and give it to someone else which, in effect, wastes two players turns.) Alternatively, this card, forces humans to waste additional cards, and or draw mutiny cards: which is also bad for team human.
This was one of the few 0s that you can try to explain your way into telling others you're not a cylon. Of course, you need one Mcard to pull this off, and if you already have one, you need to risk a crisis card outright giving you another and brigging you, so it can backfire on you.

Kwijiboe wrote:
5) Quick thinking is excellent. It gives players an excuse to take cards that don't match their skillset into their hand, this also allows that player to sabotage with that card.
if someone takes a good 3 into their hand at the cost of failing a skill check, he's getting executed or sent to the Brig. And if you play with groups who are good at tracking cards, then you'd need to be extra careful there.

Kwijiboe wrote:
The long and short of it is this: at the start of the game, it is indeed hard to sabotage. However, as treachery builds and as skill cards end up in players' hands where they don't belong: sabotage becomes increasingly easier. Cylon players should try to sabotage early skill checks with common colors if possible: Yellow, Green or Purple. Once humans know there is a cylon out there, it causes a huge psychological effect on the humans: they overshoot skillchecks, are scared to XO, and act selfishly.

If you are a Cylon player and are given treachery cards via a crises or other means, once personal vices comes out, you have the excuse you need to unload the treachery cards in your possession: because they cannot be tracked to you, they could have come from anyone.
Which is why I'd still advocate more effects that dole out Treachery to each player. It really forces a hard decision early on.



Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
6 - The new quorum cards are far too efficient. One card offers 1 fuel or 1 food with almost 0 downside (discard 2 random cards, draw 2 treachery)--you do not need to roll a die. A cylon president may be tempted to do this to draw treachery, but he will likely be unable to convince everyone to choose food over fuel. A cylon probably does not want to give the fleet fuel, if ever, so it's probably best not played. Other quorum cards are present simply for dilution, for example, Eulogy, resources for Galactica and probation.

Overall, I don't have a huge problem with these cards, but I think it's a little too strong to have a card that replenishes a fuel with 0 downside. Also, popular influence allows other players to control what goes into a presidents hand: other players can discard arrest orders or pardons, which prevents the president from abusing the quorum deck and cycling for repeat cards. This works best when the skill decks aren't far too diluted, so there are repeat plays of popular influence: and there will be, because it is such a fun card for anyone to play. The player playing popular influence can also tell the crew: "I gave the president an inspirational speech but she/he is deciding to not use it. Let's take the presidency."
Now there are 26, not just 17 Qcards, so it becomes harder to abuse that. If anything, I'd argue the powerful skill cards just from Daybreak pose more problems.


Which skill cards? How do they pose problems? The only potentially problematic skill card for me is "Change of Plans" but I think its offset by limiting skill cards to "Human Players."
Test The Limits is practically a free jump icon. VERY POWERFUL right there. Negotiations lets you ignore a whole activation. Granted if you use this early in the jump prep track to put out a basestar early, it can be deadly, but you're likely to be outed in that case. Gaining a mt is obvious.

ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
8 - 10, new skill cards, generally. The movement abilities aren't bad, but I think the reckless cards are potentially problematic. At Any Cost is potentially too strong now that treachery cards are 3, 4, 5 strength-- savvy human players can opt to hold the high treachery cards for key skill checks. In addition, for earth, the rules allow reckless cards to be used for missions. The problem with reckless cards is there is little downside to their use when compared to their potential gain.
While the average strength count in Daybreak Treachery is higher than Pegasus, there are a lot (half the deck) of 0s in the Treachery deck, so odds are, it'll even out anyways.

And you mentioned that cards like Personal Vices and A Better Machine can snowball, so I'd be cautious about risking that for the long haul


I don't believe it will balance it, the Daybreak treachery deck has 8-3's, 3-4's, and 3-5's. I don't recall for certain, but the treachery deck from Pegasus had perhaps 4-3s. I don't believe it will balance out.[/q]It just depends on luck... one game you draw many 3s to 5s. Other games, cylons are cursing b/c the last 5 cards they drew were all 0s.

Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
I do have a slight problem with preventative policy, in that, at least in my experience they're more often used for their value than their effect (I usually see preventative policy used when resources are at 1 or 2). Also, critical situation is very very strong for players with tactics.
It's sort of designed that you need to combo it (e.g. Boomer Recon a crisis card and suggesting that the next player play Prev. Pol. on Morale). If you can pick with absolute certainty of which resource it is, then it sort of goes back to your comments about things being too OP, like Reckless abilities. Sidestepping the loss of a resource for sure is really OP.


This is a sound strategy, and I see no problem with it, but if I have a 4 or 5 strength "Preventative Policy" it will probably not be in my hand for long because I will have used it for other skill checks. Perhaps I'll hold onto a 3 for this strategy, but sometimes throwing a 3 in a check is more helpful than holding onto it. Just the same, it's not like we'll be able to use this strategy every turn because there are only 3 preventative policies in the deck.
Really not that much different than IC or SP.

Kwijiboe wrote:
Preventative policy, to me, seems like an effort to give the president to make use of never utilizing his/her "movement" step since they are always squatting on the Quorum Chamber. I'm not sure I'd give up a 3, 4, or 5 value card unless I knew for certain about the value on the card. You can get mileage out of it for sure if someone ahead of you in turn order can scout, but by the end of the game (if you've been scouting diligently) you may very well be out of scouts.
you can usually go with Morale. A lot of things in this game are uncertain anyways... LS, only to end up with a crisis that has a jump icon anyways, and other stuff that's not harmful. Should we work the Quroum, Missions, or just repair? Pick 2 of the 3.

Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
Calculations is neat, but people rarely use them (because often they see it will have no beneficial effect). I think it would have been better if it was a play before card that is +1 or -1. For cylon players it's best holding onto or for spiking.
failing an FTL Control roll, or some other crucial roll can be worth its weight in gold. And the reason Calculations doesn't get played as often is 1) there's only 3 of them in the deck, and 2) unlike SP, the beauty of it is you don't have to commit it. You only use it when it will make a difference. This lets you stretch it out further vs. something like SP. The only thing I can say is roll MANY TIMES, and you'll come across more situation where you were only 1 away. Otherwise, you let an action and even a SP go to waste.


Calculations is indeed a wonderful card. However, it changes a core dynamic from the base game. I.e. "Do I want to put this 3-strength Declare emergency in now...or hold onto it and reduce the skillcheck by 2...I better put it in now for its value." Nearly every 3,4,5 makes the player go through this "use it lose it" process in the base game: Investigative Committee, Declare Emergency, Strategic Planning, and Scientific Research. With Calculations, there is no risk/reward process involved, therefore it never hits the discard pile unless deemed necessary by the player. I don't particularly enjoy the skill cards that are held by players the entire game, and ultimately, seldom used or never cycled through the decks. This is, of course, my opinion. However, I think the regret/satisfaction players feel for using a skill card for its text rather than its value is a rewarding experience. Pegasus also added "Major Victory" that has an instant reward for playing it after. I much prefer the cards that required players to weigh the differences between using a card for its strength or its value. But, perhaps that's just me! Although, you did say you enjoyed the gambling aspects of this game.
Major Victory is harder to get working since only the player who kills the cent or bs can play it, so most commonly it's the admiral with nukes (alternative is to your Peg CIC). Even then, you still have a 50/50 shot to get the morale, so ideally, you'd have 2 SP... one for the cent or bs, and one for the Major Victory roll.

Hate to break it to you, many of the 5s in Daybreak cause players to hold on to them rather than use them right away, unless it's a dire emergency. I'd rather figure out if I'm a cylon or not. If not, then I'd be willing to give my own team a jump icon. Change Of Plans has been held onto as defense against AQ or Airlock. You can't use A Second Chance to effect unless you know that the check will pass for sure, and also, it only works on the current player. Ditto with Negotiations. Play it when there are more ships, and when both basestars are already out.


Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
11 - I don't think the destination deck ever needed variety. Misjump is there purely for Helena Cain's OPG (a character that should probably not be chosen because of the Ability to restore OPG). Misjump can potentially be useful for the last jump (e.g. You need 2 distance to reach 8, but you draw a 1 and a 0-miss jump) but both of these circumstances are rare. I'm unsure why they added destinations, I don't think players were getting bored with that content. If anything, it made the game easier by providing more 3s.
There's only one new 3. There are three that are 1s or 2s. And FTR, I do like how Misjump adds that element of gambling.


I looked through the Pegasus destinations, they're alright, but I'm still not convinced whether they add anything to the base game destinations. One thing to note is that they don't require risking raptors/destroying raptors and raptors are vital to human wins in the base game.
There was only one Dcard that straight up destroyed raptors. The others risked them, so you stand to gain extra fuel or food, so not quite the same thing.

Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
As for my personal preferences, I don't include Pegasus entirely because I believe executions remove much of the mystery of the game, if playing without exodus remember that an execution is a permanent loyalty check. Pegasus crisis cards offer many opportunities for executions and thats the biggest reason I don't mix Pegasus with Daybreak.
They're not THAT many. Only one is guaranteed. The rest require a die roll or sorts. And even then, there were plenty of ways to get hosed without Pegasus.... you get hit with the Mutr., and through no fault of your own, you lose titles which changes the whole course of the game. Or, you get brigged from a random crisis card. Being Brigged can be worse then executed, especially given how some situations it's better to Brig a cylon than execute him.

Also, it's been brought up that executions can be pro-cylon too.


Executions are never good for Cylons. The primary reason is that it completely removes suspicion from the executed human player. That player, now known as a 100% loyal human, can be targeted with XOs without fear of being a cylon. They may also entrust that player with certain tasks and responsibilities. Without Executions, you will never know for sure: suspicion and uncertainty are the best tools for unrevealed cylons. The loss of a morale and that player's skill cards will never counterbalance the boon that human team is granted through an execution: a human they can trust.

Executing a cylon gives him a head start on spamming cylon locations. Some of the super crisis cards are overrated anyways. On average, there's only so much you can do to stay hidden while sabotaging meaningfully, so you do need to reveal. Games where you can stay hidden and really sow full confusion onto the humans are the exception than the norm.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Both Pegasus and Daybreak have 26 Treachery cards.

Pegasus has twelve 1s, eight 2s and six 3s for a total of 46 strength.
Daybreak has twelve 0s, eight 3s, three 4s and three 5s for a total of 51 strength.

Average strength of a Pegasus Treachery card: 1.769
Average strength of a Daybreak Treachery card: 1.962

The difference in variance between the two decks is more significant than the difference in mean.

***

Personally, while I like the effects of some Movement cards/abilities, I'm not a fan of the mechanic - it should have been balanced as something that works on any move rather than having to make the distinction between a player's movement step and a player moving - being able to sit on FTL Control with a Preventative Policy ready to catch an XO and save Pop/Fuel on the Jump would be a nice option.
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rmsgrey wrote:
Personally, while I like the effects of some Movement cards/abilities, I'm not a fan of the mechanic - it should have been balanced as something that works on any move rather than having to make the distinction between a player's movement step and a player moving - being able to sit on FTL Control with a Preventative Policy ready to catch an XO and save Pop/Fuel on the Jump would be a nice option.


Eerie... I was just thinking about starting a thread about this! surprise

I honestly don't see the harm in letting Cap6, Leoben, or God's Plan work on a move instead of a Movement step considering they hardly get XO-ed anyways. Ditto with State Of Emergency usage.

I'm slightly leaning towards Prev. Pol. usage in this fashion.

I would probably rule that encountering allies in IN should still be on a player's Movement step though.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
I honestly don't see the harm in letting Cap6, Leoben, or God's Plan work on a move instead of a Movement step considering they hardly get XO-ed anyways. Ditto with State Of Emergency usage.

I'm slightly leaning towards Prev. Pol. usage in this fashion.

I would probably rule that encountering allies in IN should still be on a player's Movement step though.


None of is really game-breaking. It does make PrevPol VERY good in the XO-FTL situation (you can do this currently if one player has both PrevPol and XO, as they play the prevPol as their movement, but two players having the right combo is a lot easier).

For simplicity, I would let either:
1) have allies work on any movement, then basically you have "anything that refers to MOVEMENT / MOVEMENT STEP also includes any time you could move, e.g., XO"
2) state that you can only encounter allies on your turn. this would include at least the following situations not covered by "movement step only": SoE (you play & choose to move), Brig Escape, Cylon Leader infiltrating.

Either way, keep the "limit 1 ally per turn" rule.

Basically, if you're going to conflate "movement" with "movement step" (which overall I think is fine), then do it all the way. If you want to restrict allies further, then option 2 mostly covers it, and the fun of getting to visit an ally outside of your normal move could be neat.
 
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InfoCynic wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
I honestly don't see the harm in letting Cap6, Leoben, or God's Plan work on a move instead of a Movement step considering they hardly get XO-ed anyways. Ditto with State Of Emergency usage.

I'm slightly leaning towards Prev. Pol. usage in this fashion.

I would probably rule that encountering allies in IN should still be on a player's Movement step though.


None of is really game-breaking. It does make PrevPol VERY good in the XO-FTL situation (you can do this currently if one player has both PrevPol and XO, as they play the prevPol as their movement, but two players having the right combo is a lot easier).

For simplicity, I would let either:
1) have allies work on any movement, then basically you have "anything that refers to MOVEMENT / MOVEMENT STEP also includes any time you could move, e.g., XO"
2) state that you can only encounter allies on your turn. this would include at least the following situations not covered by "movement step only": SoE (you play & choose to move), Brig Escape, Cylon Leader infiltrating.

Either way, keep the "limit 1 ally per turn" rule.

Basically, if you're going to conflate "movement" with "movement step" (which overall I think is fine), then do it all the way. If you want to restrict allies further, then option 2 mostly covers it, and the fun of getting to visit an ally outside of your normal move could be neat.


Another element is XO-ing a player to visit a location with an ally is the workaround for using a location without having to encounter the ally, so if a new variant say it's mandatory rather than optional, you now lose that workaround.
 
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Robert Stewart
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I'm happy to leave Allies under the same restriction as Ellen Tigh's OPT - whether that's end-of-movement-step or after moving.

The difference between Movement abilities and Allies/Ellen is that the former require you to give up your movement; the latter happen as a "free" effect based on your location.

I'd leave the end-of-movement-step triggers as they are - as something that happens as part of your turn - before your action, you resolve any triggers for your location
 
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