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Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men» Forums » General

Subject: A Difficult Question rss

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Richard Herrera
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First let me say that I am really enjoying this game, have bought about 20 boosters this far and am itching to buy more due to the fact I don't have some characters or their dice yet. That being said, I have never gotten into the CCG scene until now, so this question may be a but off putting.

As I've read posts here and seen the ridiculousness that is going on with the secondary market on eBay, one question keeps coming to mind: why don't people just make and share copies of cards? Now I'm not talking about making copies and using them in tournaments, I'm talking about you and your friends just sitting down and playing each other? Is it just illegal to do so or is it a fauxpa, too much temptation to rip off others in the secondary market with fake cards?

Like I said, I'm still buying boosters because I know I need cards and dice. I was just wondering for the sake of having fun to have a printable copy of rares and super rares, but not releasing some info on the card to help make sure that it is tournament legal vs fake. If this is a touchy subject, I understand, but I was just curious due to the fact you need the dice to play at all.
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Jacob Bazar
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I haven't played yet but since you don't shuffle the cards all you need to do is write down the rules for the card you want to use but don't have. There's absolutely nothing illegal about that.

As for your suggestion that you print out a copy of the actual card, I personally don't think that's wrong unless you try to sell it. But some people on BGG take such things very seriously and will tell you it is wrong. Practically speaking no one will ever know you did it unless you post about it on some Internet forum.
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Jason Nopa
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People have been doing that for years, just in a slightly different form. They call it proxying. You basically don't have the actual card, but you have something that represents the card to let and remind other people you're playing that you do.

It's something that you only do in casual play.

I can't tell you about counterfeiting though... but anything that would damage the collectible aspect of a CCG is probably something most of us would stay away from, as it hurts the game by hurting sales of packs for the game and also the secondary market.
 
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Stephen Cooper
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Why are you asking? whats it matter if other people are doing it?
 
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Trent Hamm
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See this text? It's a gratuitous waste of GeekGold.
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The game itself isn't important. Spending time intellectually jousting with likeminded folks is the real reason to game.
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rokkon wrote:
People have been doing that for years, just in a slightly different form. They call it proxying. You basically don't have the actual card, but you have something that represents the card to let and remind other people you're playing that you do.

It's something that you only do in casual play.

I can't tell you about counterfeiting though... but anything that would damage the collectible aspect of a CCG is probably something most of us would stay away from, as it hurts the game by hurting sales of packs for the game and also the secondary market.


This is highly accurate.

I was a competitive Magic player for many years. The only time I would proxy was when I was testing a competitive Magic deck in preparation for a tournament. This wasn't to keep me from buying cards, but just to make sure I was getting the right cards. This might also be okay in a purely casual game with a close friend.

Outside of that, "proxying" would move a lot closer to "counterfitting." Proxying is banned in organized tournaments and it's even looked down upon in many casual formats. If I sat down across from someone intending to do anything other than test for a tournament, I would basically consider them a douchebag for busting out proxies.

Why? It undermines the entire game a la the "tragedy of the commons." It's given that the game survives because the company that makes it has incentive to do so. By making proxies, you damage that company and thus damage the game. Like many gamers, I consider that disrespectful. If I want to enjoy the game, it's reasonable that I pay the price that the manufacturer is asking for it (or, in the case of collectible games, the price that the market is asking for it). If I'm not willing to pay, then I should go play something else.
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Richard Herrera
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Oh I don't have a problem with it. I just like having full sets if things as a completionist. I just wonder if I or others made photocopies of cards that it is seen as illegal even if it is just for fun? Mainly I was thinking about giving a set to my wife (not site) so we could play against each other, but I would use what real cards I have for a tourney.
 
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Lee Fisher
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In this game it seems less of an issue. You still have to pay for the dice and support the game (if you were proxying the dice, that would be more akin to the issue of proxying in magic).

So if you have the dice and are just proxying a different variation, that's really not a big deal (as I think even the designer may have implied as well).
 
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Tim Norris
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Don't worry about what people say. Proxy away amigo!

It's a pretty fun game that, to be honest would of done just as well without that stupid CCG model attached to it.

At some point, you've spent enough. Proxy your duplicates and just have fun.

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Major Havok
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I'm not a _completionist_, but I would have assumed that proxy's would not have necessarily scratched that itch for folks who want it all? But I guess that isn't the case obviously.
 
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Richard Herrera
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I guess I should clarify, I would like a copy of all cards for the "completionist" in me, but I plan on getting those through boosters. I plan on playing tournaments and casually outside of my home with cards that I have purchased. This whole question really comes back to a legality of making copies for my wife from what I already have purchased and say from a photo that people have placed online (lets say through ebay or promotional pics). That is ultimately my question. Is it illegal to make copies of my cards which I have purchased for my home to play only in my home? Obviously there are some rares and super rares I will not have, so if I made a copy from one that someone else had and used it for personal use/fun, would it be wrong to do so?
 
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Scott Egan
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The only issue with proxying is that you'd never be able to use the cards in an event, and some LGSs will not let you use them in store either. If you are only playing at home, no one else will ever know or care if you are proxying.
 
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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In your own home, or with friends, you can do whatever you, and your player-base agrees with, honestly. Its all a game, literally, so in casual play, who wants to turn the fun into "serious business"?

That said, in an organized event, with a prize or buy-in of any kind, I would respectfully refuse to play against proxied cards.
 
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Mark Reynolds
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silverbowen wrote:
Or you could just play a game that doesn't have a distribution model that encourages people to be (as Trent put it) "douchebags".


Do you have the game?
Do you play or have you played/collected CCGs in the past?

The 2 posts I have noticed from you have been negative towards the CCG model and have not offered anything of value towards any of the OPs or any other questions within the threads. You have a right to your opinion but you offer very little value when stating it.

As far as the OP's question, collecting and trading can be part of the fun a CCG model can bring. I have never made proxies of cards since I like the challenge of going up against people who may have more options and beating them with a well built deck. Needing to have every card in a CCG can be an expensive endeavor. If you feel the need to proxy cards to scratch that itch it may save you lots of money.
 
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