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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Difficulty Rant! Flight from Moria rss

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Greg
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For the irony, I placed this rant in the "Strategy" section. First off, I want everyone to know I love this game. So much so that I bought the whole game (Core - VoI) in a month's worth of time. As I have been playing through each scenario in order, at least 40+ plays, I came across one called Flight from Moria. There is a card in there that just makes the game really really really fun! Here it is:



Yay! Get this card pulled on the first turn and one of your heroes is most likely dead. And you can't use A Test of Will or Elenor to cancel it. I am sorry but I call BS on this one.

There is a video game I really like that is really hard called Dark Souls. There is a second on that came out recently. It can be very brutal and unforgiving. Just like the above card is. I can be running down a dark tunnel in the game, just exploring, and get smashed in one hit by some powerful monster or trap and die. Just like Sudden Pitfall. But you know what? The next time I go that way, I will be ready to haul tail to avoid it. I am ok with this because I can get better and change my "Strategy".

With Sudden Pitfall, there is nothing one can do. It's just boom (HAHA!) you are going to lose and there isn't anything you can do except get more lucky or not commit a hero early unless you have an ally to quest. Great fun though for poor Thalin in a mono-Tactics deck. But that is not all. In the same deck we have:



Sure I can cancel this but man, 2 damage is brutal.

And then we have the Quest card that makes only one of each sides character count for determining overall Willpower in the Quest. Loads of fun!!

Last but not least:



Another one of those "cannot be cancelled" Treacheries that probably kills a hero! Yay! so fun to play this quest where luck pretty much rules the day entirely!

Bottom line: I hate this quest, and do not have fun playing it at all. Any tips on how to enjoy it and make it less based on random chance to succeed in beating the quest? I find it too hard to beat if I lose a hero early.
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Troy Lawrence
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If only there was a way you could peek at the top card in the encounter deck and prepare for it, or even move it to the bottom of the deck... Wait a minute.
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Dr Who
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For the first one, you just have to set up for it, and get a little lucky with the draws.

Fortune or Fate



Stand and Fight




Make sure that any 'questing character' is also any ally.
You don't have to ditch a hero.

You are also in the dark pits of Moria, where a decaying dwarven fortress is withering before you.

Either way, yes, you need luck more in some APs than others.

And without knowing your spheres you are playing, there are no doubt other possibilities to mitigate and work around. But some APs just might stomp you good.
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Greg
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Hmm... Denethor. This would work great when one-hand soloing. I solo, mostly, but play two-handed. I will try to make a deck featuring Denethor's ability, now that you mention it. Thanks!
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Greg
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Dr Who: Thanks for your reply. I was playing one hand with an "Eagle/Direct damage" mono-Tactics deck with Hama, Legolas, and Thalin. The other, I was playing with a mono-Spirit deck of Frodo, Eowyn, and Eleanor that is mostly Rohan characters using Astonishing Speed to quest like mad. I also sometimes switch out this Rohan Spirit build for a Dain, Oin, and Nori Dwarf deck. This has been working really well on everything up until this quest.

It appears that the answer may be to use a little scrying on the encounter deck. Lore happens to be my least favorite Sphere. Maybe it's time to use it though.
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Allan Clements
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Sudden Pitfall is still bad game design regardless (and sleeping sentry)

Cards which discard characters (especially heroes) are very poorly designed cards. There should not be a single card which will simply discard a hero. The card should at least say do 10 damage to a questing character (thus you could somehow have someone with lots of health or somehow prevent it, such as with Frodo)

FFG has got a lot better with later quests as making them hard without just throwing one stupid card into the mix.
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Sam Cook
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My understanding is that you really have to tailor your deck to the specific quest. In this case it seems like it would be pretty easy to put out a chump quester on turn 1.
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chadgar24
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this is an encounter deck manipulation quest. I would hope each new quest MAKES a player change his strategy...otherwise what is the point? for this quest you have to manipulate the encounter deck and have chump-questers. If you set your deck up right then it is not a matter of luck, rather it is skill. Good luck.
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Greg
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I suppose one alternative would be to rip Sudden Pitfall into several pieces and place them in the garbage. After looking at it some more last night, there is only 1 copy. I think it initially erked me so bad because I pulled it on turn 1 with no "chump quester" in sight because I was not aware of that treachery card and because my hand did not provide me with one.

Another alternative would be to change "character" to "ally" on Sudden Pitfall with a sharpie and be done with it. I don't mind losing an ally like that.

With that said the bottom line, for me, is if you are the first player, and you know Sudden Pitfall is in the deck still, do not quest with only a hero. Send a 0 willpower ally if you have too lol!

I tried using a Denethor, Loragorn, Pippen mono-Lore build with an emphasis on scrying. It was really cool knowing what was coming. But I found that the game lasted forever as I didn't have much questing or attack strength. Course I didn't get the Hobbit version of Gandalf out either, which seems key.
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David Harris
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Don't forget easy mode (Instructions here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/lotr-lcg/suppo...)

For the Flight from Moria quest, it won't solve all your problems but will remove A Foe Beyond and Shadow of Fear.
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Rob Jennings
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This quest is a lot easier one-handed solo than it is with two hands for two reasons. First, you can scry, which makes the quest way easier. Second, even if you can't scry, you see about half as many cards and thus are less likely to hit the really vicious treacheries.

There is very little you can do about A Foe Beyond. Citadel Plate, Gondorian Discipline, or 5-hp heroes can usually weather it once, but after that you're in trouble. Luckily, if you play one-handed solo you probably won't hit it more than once.

Sudden pitfall is awful, just brutal. On the other hand, it's far less painful if you have an ally along for the quest, so just make sure you have at least one ally questing every round. Even if the only ally you have is dwarven axehand with zero will, he can still walk out in front and find holes for you.

Most quests you can beat by just running test of will+dwarven tomb+map of earnil (to recur dwarven tomb). With about a fifth of your deck devoted to treachery cancellation, all you need to worry about are enemies and locations, and there are a lot of tools for that. Flight from Moria doesn't let you do that, so you really have to be ready to suffer the treacheries.
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Ed T
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I played through the Khazad Dum / Dwarrowdelf (as well as the Hobbit cycle) quests with a Lore / Leadership dwarf deck without any sort of cancellation or scrying just fine. You just have to mitigate the risk of those nasty treacheries with overwhelming force and smart questing. I did the same thing with the last two quests in the Heirs of Numenor box set set as well with a mono tactics deck.

I do get wanting to use Spirit or Lore to cancel / avoid bad cards and card effects (that's how I first played through the Mirkwood cycle, slapping Unexpected Courage on Denethor to scry and playing with 3x Test of Will and Hasty Stroke to avoid anything bad at all), but there are absolutely ways to play and win against the game consistently without relying on those techniques.
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Ryan Hanson
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Have only skimmed the other responses, but I remember from some time I spent playing this quest that it is more likely to outright kill heroes than almost every other quest in the game. It's one of the few quests where "Fortune or Fate" is actually a really good inclusion.

Unfortunately, it's also a somewhat long quest which can lead to some very frustrating late-game losses due to bad card draws.

Don't forget Eleanor is one of the most reliable cancel cards in the entire game, she can really mitigate some of the really really bad treacheries even if she can't prevent you from drawing a new one after using her effect.

All that said, there is a lot I like about this quest also, it's a true endurance test in a way that many quests aren't.
 
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Tobin Lopes
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Phate999 wrote:
I suppose one alternative would be to rip Sudden Pitfall into several pieces and place them in the garbage. After looking at it some more last night, there is only 1 copy. I think it initially erked me so bad because I pulled it on turn 1 with no "chump quester" in sight because I was not aware of that treachery card and because my hand did not provide me with one.

Another alternative would be to change "character" to "ally" on Sudden Pitfall with a sharpie and be done with it. I don't mind losing an ally like that.

With that said the bottom line, for me, is if you are the first player, and you know Sudden Pitfall is in the deck still, do not quest with only a hero. Send a 0 willpower ally if you have too lol!

I tried using a Denethor, Loragorn, Pippen mono-Lore build with an emphasis on scrying. It was really cool knowing what was coming. But I found that the game lasted forever as I didn't have much questing or attack strength. Course I didn't get the Hobbit version of Gandalf out either, which seems key.


I love the game. Been playing through the scenarios two-handed solo as that gives me a great deckbuilding experience (Tactics Eagles and Lore/Spirit).

I've been playing this one lately and have hit a wall, or a pit, as the case may be. Twice in my first three games I it in on the first quest - bye bye hero. I immediately reshuffled all cards, including my own and started again. Then I hit it turn three. I tell ya, this is the first quest where I really am fearful of the encounter deck. The only win condition is with Abandoned Tools. I put the third progress token on it - i.e. I only needed to not have anything catastrophic happen but then I hit New Devilry - which AFAIK isn't optional (can I opt to not reset the quest deck and just Surge?) and went right back to the beginning.

This one has me frustrated. Once I do beat it I'm not looking back. At least until my wife and I play it. She and I are three quests behind my solo progress.

-tpl
 
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Robb Melenyk
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I like half-easy mode: I don't remove any cards but I do double resources for the first round. I didn't need it for this quest but Shadow and Flame I still can't get a win without the double resources.

I agree man, the game literally can throw you such a zinger that you just feel like packing up and doing something else. Quest number two in KD really bugged me the most. The laughable difficulty three yes if you aren't killing goblins every round, you are swarmed. Not to mention some nasty things like that stupid drummer who boosts staging card willpower.

I'm going to be honest, if I drew this on the first round, i'd discard and draw again. I play alone and I don't do any tournaments. I just want to see how the deck handles the quest as a whole.


Hmm, maybe I just need to toughen up
 
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