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Subject: An Overwhelmingly Positive Review rss

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Alex Martinez
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Before I write anything here, I should mention that I am NOT a Kickstarter backer of this game. I hadn't hear about it until a month or two ago, and I have no investment, monetarily or otherwise, in convincing myself it's a great game.

Make no mistake. I think it is a great game.

The other point to address at the get go is that, yes, this is not a great rulebook. It's poorly organized, and hard to cross reference, and makes a lot of assumptions that people will understand certain things. Is this a negative? Absolutely, and Megacon Games are attempting to address it. However, it doesn't change the fact that for a lot of gamers, their first experience with Myth will probably be confusing and awkward. It's a shame that a bad first impression can be so influential, but it is a fact.

With all that said, I have to say this is a pretty amazing game.

While there have been many dungeoncrawler games in the past, Myth is trying to bring something new to the table. Random quests with difficulty set by the players, more or less, is a pretty ambitious goal. Having a game that can be played casually or more long term is another hurdle they've set for themselves. And they succeed.

Though the game is complex, the heart of it is very simple. I have been able to teach several people the game and so far, none has had any trouble understanding it. Occasionally, an ambiguity will pop up, but they are always easily solved by a bit of impromptu agreement among the group.

You can begin a game of Myth by simply grabbing a hero, picking a random tile to start on, and following the guidelines printed on the tile itself. Some tiles always have quests. Some will always have lairs and / or hunting parties. And while the game sets guidelines, the specifics are almost always up to the players.

This is Myth's greatest strength but also it's greatest weakness. Most of these type games are very specific. Myth gives parameters. If there's a hunting party on the tile, players can pick the number of monsters ranging from 3 to 8. More monsters equal more danger, but a greater chance of reward.

An unguided game of Myth can run for as many realm tiles as the players want. One tile after another, one challenge after another. The stopping point is completely up to the players, as is the exact challenge level.

If players elect to incorporate an Act quest, their end goal is more obvious, but by no means limited. Our heroes might have a mission to confront a terrible mini-boss, and as they journey farther, collecting gear and conquering tiles, they must constantly decide if they're ready to face that boss or to carry on deeper.

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake. But if you take Myth for what it wants to be, you realize this is almost the first freeform board game. There's structure here, but it's an intentionally loose structure meant to encourage players to act not just as the heroes, but as the villains as well. The players can make it easy on our heroes. Or they can make it really hard. It's up to them.

It's a beautiful game too. I've heard some complaints about the minis, and if you're a hardcore mini fan, I'm sure they'll be disappointing. I like a good mini, but I'm not fanatical about it. And these are some of the nicest minis I've ever had in any board game. The art on the cards is unique too.

In the end, most everyone who reads this review will already know how they feel, good or bad. I will say I was expecting to like Myth, but I think it's fair to say I love it. It eschews a lot of game conventions. Unlike a lot of dungeon crawlers, characters advance very slowly, and adventures are very freeform. It lacks the hardcore art design that so often defines the genre, and for a lot of folks, that's a turnoff. But for me, I've grown sick of warriors decked out in spikey armor and half-naked Amazon chicks.

Myth is an expensive game, and it isn't without its flaws. But if you go in with an open mind, and understand what it's trying to do, you could find a great game here. I certainly did.
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Mike Burns
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Well done. As you've posted a positive review, we can no doubt now wait for the four or five pages of comment that every negative review of this game seems to receive... - or can we?
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Mike Burns
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One question - as you're not a kickstarter backer, how come you own the game and have been able to teach it to several people already? Has it been out for a while in the states?
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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KingCroc wrote:

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake.


For me, this is absolutely a "mistake," and if I had known just how freeform the game was going to be, I doubt I would have backed.

When I play a co-op game, I expect the game to set the challenge. I don't mind choosing a difficulty setting at the start of the game (like in Ghost Stories), but I don't want to choose everything.

I am going to have to put in a lot of time making mission generators and proper campaign rules before I ever get this game to the table. Which is a bit of a shame really. Although, in layering those things onto the Myth system, maybe I will get something close to the dungeon crawler I was hoping for, because I have a lot of hope for the core mechanisms Myth provides.

Thanks for the review. It was nice to hear a bit more positivity, and I am happy you are enjoying the game so much. Unfortunately, your review doesn't make me feel any better about my purchase at the moment, because I need more of the structure Myth appears to lack. Time will tell.
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Shawn Hubbard
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
KingCroc wrote:

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake.


When I play a co-op game, I expect the game to set the challenge. I don't mind choosing a difficulty setting at the start of the game (like in Ghost Stories), but I don't want to choose everything.


Isn't setting up a tile similar to choosing a difficulty level? You're definitely going from easy (no lair or maybe 1 lair) to hard (2 lairs of different types) with different configurations.

We were blowing through a freeform quest last night and decided to finish with a bang - double crawler lairs, grubber hunting pack + Yardu. The game definitely went from "doesn't matter how you kill it, we have 4 different options" to "ok, let's decide how we're going to do this...". We lost, but it was fun.
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VoicelessFaces wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
KingCroc wrote:

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake.


When I play a co-op game, I expect the game to set the challenge. I don't mind choosing a difficulty setting at the start of the game (like in Ghost Stories), but I don't want to choose everything.


Isn't setting up a tile similar to choosing a difficulty level? You're definitely going from easy (no lair or maybe 1 lair) to hard (2 lairs of different types) with different configurations.



Not really.

Imagine a computer game: At the start it asks you to set a difficulty level. Then you play. From that point on, the computer knows what monsters to throw at you, and how many, and what the world you are exploring will look like. The computer is still making the bulk of the decisions. I am not getting to pick when the end of level boss appears, or how many monsters there will be in any given room.

Look at a game like Dark Darker Darkest: At the start, you choose a difficulty level. From that point on, the game controls everything. It determines where zombies turn up, and how many, and every other challenge you will face.
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Brett Hertzberger
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Romeo wrote:
One question - as you're not a kickstarter backer, how come you own the game and have been able to teach it to several people already? Has it been out for a while in the states?


It has been out for a bit. It's even in stores in Canada already.
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Jason Christie
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Romeo wrote:
One question - as you're not a kickstarter backer, how come you own the game and have been able to teach it to several people already? Has it been out for a while in the states?


Amazon UK has Myth advertised as available via Funagain Games USA for £51.48.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Myth/dp/B00JKU170S%3FSubscriptionId%...

Edit for spelling.
 
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Tristan Hall
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de_aztec wrote:
Romeo wrote:
One question - as you're not a kickstarter backer, how come you own the game and have been able to teach it to several people already? Has it been out for a while in the states?


Amazon UK has Myth advertised as available via Funagain Games USA for £51.48.



+ £49.63 UK delivery.
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Shawn Hubbard
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
VoicelessFaces wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
KingCroc wrote:

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake.


When I play a co-op game, I expect the game to set the challenge. I don't mind choosing a difficulty setting at the start of the game (like in Ghost Stories), but I don't want to choose everything.


Isn't setting up a tile similar to choosing a difficulty level? You're definitely going from easy (no lair or maybe 1 lair) to hard (2 lairs of different types) with different configurations.



Not really.

Imagine a computer game: At the start it asks you to set a difficulty level. Then you play. From that point on, the computer knows what monsters to throw at you, and how many, and what the world you are exploring will look like. The computer is still making the bulk of the decisions. I am not getting to pick when the end of level boss appears, or how many monsters there will be in any given room.

Look at a game like Dark Darker Darkest: At the start, you choose a difficulty level. From that point on, the game controls everything. It determines where zombies turn up, and how many, and every other challenge you will face.


I get your point, but it seems like there's enough randomization with the Darkness deck and the lair spawns that you don't feel like you know exactly what's coming. Just my opinion.
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jef stuyck
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
KingCroc wrote:

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake.


For me, this is absolutely a "mistake," and if I had known just how freeform the game was going to be, I doubt I would have backed.

When I play a co-op game, I expect the game to set the challenge. I don't mind choosing a difficulty setting at the start of the game (like in Ghost Stories), but I don't want to choose everything.

I am going to have to put in a lot of time making mission generators and proper campaign rules before I ever get this game to the table. Which is a bit of a shame really. Although, in layering those things onto the Myth system, maybe I will get something close to the dungeon crawler I was hoping for, because I have a lot of hope for the core mechanisms Myth provides.

Thanks for the review. It was nice to hear a bit more positivity, and I am happy you are enjoying the game so much. Unfortunately, your review doesn't make me feel any better about my purchase at the moment, because I need more of the structure Myth appears to lack. Time will tell.


Maybe next time you should research a game better on kickstarter because this was clearly said back then. That is one of the main reasons why i backed it.
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Kevin Outlaw
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VoicelessFaces wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
VoicelessFaces wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
KingCroc wrote:

That's Myth in a nutshell. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be, and it doesn't always tell you exactly what to do. For a lot of players, that will seem like a mistake.


When I play a co-op game, I expect the game to set the challenge. I don't mind choosing a difficulty setting at the start of the game (like in Ghost Stories), but I don't want to choose everything.


Isn't setting up a tile similar to choosing a difficulty level? You're definitely going from easy (no lair or maybe 1 lair) to hard (2 lairs of different types) with different configurations.



Not really.

Imagine a computer game: At the start it asks you to set a difficulty level. Then you play. From that point on, the computer knows what monsters to throw at you, and how many, and what the world you are exploring will look like. The computer is still making the bulk of the decisions. I am not getting to pick when the end of level boss appears, or how many monsters there will be in any given room.

Look at a game like Dark Darker Darkest: At the start, you choose a difficulty level. From that point on, the game controls everything. It determines where zombies turn up, and how many, and every other challenge you will face.


I get your point, but it seems like there's enough randomization with the Darkness deck and the lair spawns that you don't feel like you know exactly what's coming. Just my opinion.


It is definitely a personal taste thing. Some people will love that freedom, and some people won't.

I know that I am going to need to put in all the framework that isn't there. But I am only going to do that if I love the underlaying mechanisms of the game. At the moment, I like what I have seen, but it really is difficult to know until my box arrives. Hopefully soon...
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Romeo wrote:
One question - as you're not a kickstarter backer, how come you own the game and have been able to teach it to several people already? Has it been out for a while in the states?


Been at my FLGS(es) for about a week now here in Toronto.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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It's interesting to get a non-KS perspective.

What type of Questing did you play? (Free-form, Act, or Story)
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Alex Martinez
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mfaulk80 wrote:
It's interesting to get a non-KS perspective.

What type of Questing did you play? (Free-form, Act, or Story)


I have done both free form and acts. I have not tried a story quest yet.

I have enjoyed both.

To those who asked, I bought my copy on Thurs, last week, at my local gaming store, and had a bunch of regulars at the store ask to play it. That was how I was able to teach and play it so many times in the space of only a few days.
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Quote:
To those who asked, I bought my copy on Thurs, last week, at my local gaming store, and had a bunch of regulars at the store ask to play it. That was how I was able to teach and play it so many times in the space of only a few days.


I bought myself a retail copy abut 2 weeks ago now and am hesitant presenting it to our group yet. I'm the only one who has read the rulebook and I played around a bit by myself and with the BF (not sure he was enjoying himself it did run late). Do you have any advice on teaching this to a group (We're all pretty experienced gamers)? I would hate to see this get played once and then shelved because I didn't teach it well and people didn't enjoy themselves.
 
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Brian M
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But if you take Myth for what it wants to be, you realize this is almost the first freeform board game.

I've been checking these sort of reviews because I keep wondering "what are other people seeing that I'm missing", and you aren't the first person I've seen list this as a good point, which confuses me a lot.

Are there really people that don't realize that you can play ANY game like this if you want to?

Seriously. You can play Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game and, when you draw a "Crypt tile" think "Ooh, this should have a few skeletons in it!" and place a few skeletons. You can pull out your copy of Descent: Journeys in the Dark and play solo by just putting out whatever monsters you think should be there. If you wanted to, instead of rolling on an encounter table for Warhammer Quest, you could just say "I think Ogres would make for a cool fight!" and toss them in the room.
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
But if you take Myth for what it wants to be, you realize this is almost the first freeform board game.

I've been checking these sort of reviews because I keep wondering "what are other people seeing that I'm missing", and you aren't the first person I've seen list this as a good point, which confuses me a lot.

Are there really people that don't realize that you can play ANY game like this if you want to?

Seriously. You can play Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game and, when you draw a "Crypt tile" think "Ooh, this should have a few skeletons in it!" and place a few skeletons. You can pull out your copy of Descent: Journeys in the Dark and play solo by just putting out whatever monsters you think should be there. If you wanted to, instead of rolling on an encounter table for Warhammer Quest, you could just say "I think Ogres would make for a cool fight!" and toss them in the room.


But with Myth it gives you a framework/some guidance for this. That's what I've been enjoying about it...
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Alex Martinez
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synchroneyes wrote:
Quote:
To those who asked, I bought my copy on Thurs, last week, at my local gaming store, and had a bunch of regulars at the store ask to play it. That was how I was able to teach and play it so many times in the space of only a few days.


I bought myself a retail copy abut 2 weeks ago now and am hesitant presenting it to our group yet. I'm the only one who has read the rulebook and I played around a bit by myself and with the BF (not sure he was enjoying himself it did run late). Do you have any advice on teaching this to a group (We're all pretty experienced gamers)? I would hate to see this get played once and then shelved because I didn't teach it well and people didn't enjoy themselves.


I found it was best just to jump in, explain the basics, and just start playing. Don't worry about doing an Act or Story. Just do a few Chapter Quests. Start with a 6x6 tile and go from there. And ask the players what they want to do. After clearing a tile, ask if they want to face a trap or a lair or just a larger hunting party. This is not a game that tells you what to do. Customize your experience to your group, and it will go over well.

Also, don't be afraid to make judgment calls. I don't care for the crushing wall trap, for instance, so I don't use it. Use the game's flexibility to your advantage and it should go fine.
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Alex Martinez
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Titeman wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
But if you take Myth for what it wants to be, you realize this is almost the first freeform board game.

I've been checking these sort of reviews because I keep wondering "what are other people seeing that I'm missing", and you aren't the first person I've seen list this as a good point, which confuses me a lot.

Are there really people that don't realize that you can play ANY game like this if you want to?

Seriously. You can play Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game and, when you draw a "Crypt tile" think "Ooh, this should have a few skeletons in it!" and place a few skeletons. You can pull out your copy of Descent: Journeys in the Dark and play solo by just putting out whatever monsters you think should be there. If you wanted to, instead of rolling on an encounter table for Warhammer Quest, you could just say "I think Ogres would make for a cool fight!" and toss them in the room.


But with Myth it gives you a framework/some guidance for this. That's what I've been enjoying about it...


I agree. You can certainly adapt this system to many games, just as If I loved Warhammer rules, I could use the system for any number of custom choices. All games are merely a framework of rules, but Myth is designed with this in mind, versus other games.

There is also more to it though. The D&D adventure board games have always struck me as rather bland. You can certainly adapt it to something like Myth, but Myth is here and doesn't need to be adapted. It already is, and it is designed with its intent in mind, which is a worthy achievement.
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Brian M
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Quote:
But with Myth it gives you a framework/some guidance for this. That's what I've been enjoying about it...

EVERY adventure game gives you a framework for what you meet. All of them that I know give you a much, much more solid framework than Myth does.

Quote:
You can certainly adapt this system to many games...

Um, "decide what you meet" is not a system. There is no system to adapt. It's just "decide what you meet". It's the fallback you use when you are trying to play a game designed as a competitive or GMed game without an opponent or GM. It's the fallback people have been using since Basic D&D 30+ years ago.
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Tristan Hall
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
But if you take Myth for what it wants to be, you realize this is almost the first freeform board game.

I've been checking these sort of reviews because I keep wondering "what are other people seeing that I'm missing", and you aren't the first person I've seen list this as a good point, which confuses me a lot.

Are there really people that don't realize that you can play ANY game like this if you want to?

Seriously. You can play Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game and, when you draw a "Crypt tile" think "Ooh, this should have a few skeletons in it!" and place a few skeletons. You can pull out your copy of Descent: Journeys in the Dark and play solo by just putting out whatever monsters you think should be there. If you wanted to, instead of rolling on an encounter table for Warhammer Quest, you could just say "I think Ogres would make for a cool fight!" and toss them in the room.



Could it be that people who see this as an innovation just aren't used to house rules or modding their games? Or feel they need permission from the designers to do this? I genuinely can't understand why people think this is something new. But then I don't have the game yet so am happy to have my mind blown when it arrives.
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Ben Nietzel
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I enjoyed this review. I am also very excited and enthusiastic about Myth. I'm teaching it to a group on Thursday, so i did a lot of prep this weekend.

To the points about it being free form. I think a huge issue that I've come to realize is that one thing they could have done to really improve this game's first impression value was provide some very scripted adventures right out of the gate. Even just one story quest that was completely spelled out. By this I mean, very detailed adventures, down to the exact placement of lairs, traps, creatures, etc.

I like the idea of choosing the adventure and difficulty as you go as it's implemented, but the issue is when you play this game early on, you have no perspective on the difficulty level. That's the problem. So I encounter a 12x12 tile. I can chose 1 or 2 lairs. I can choose a hunting pack, or I can not. I can choose 2-8 critters in the pack. What do I do? The issue is, initially, I have no idea. As I become comfortable with the game, I will figure it out, and I think that will be cool. But at first, I didn't know. This creates a bad first impression. A group sets it up, makes some choices, and get's slaughtered... no fun. Conversely, they make it too easy and never get touched... no fun. Even worse, they start off on a story act that has confusing rules or unclear interactions, and on top of it, they seem to be geared towards some heroes that have done some previous leveling. I feel like this creates, with the rule confusions of course, a negative first play experience. That sets people down the wrong path. I think the common experience could be greatly improved if people could sit down and play the first few tiles in a very scripted manner. I know it would have helped me out a lot.

I'm loving this game. I think it has massive potential and I think even in its current state it really rewards the effort put into playing it. The issue is there are tons of great games out there (I just got my Kaosball in the mail... wow it's great) so the fact that it has this high barrier to entry is tough. It's not that people aren't smart or don't get it, or anything, I just think they (understandable) choose to not invest so much time into this game when so many other great games exist that have a much easier and clearer entry point.

I don't think free form is a "BS" cover-up to hide flaws as I do think it's an intential design, but I do think the free-form nature being forced upon new players does cause problems for very clear reasons. You can fight through them, but should you have to and (certainly) do you wan to are rational questions to ask. I can see that even in my attempts to just figure out what to do to intro the game to my buddies. For me, the answer has been "yes"
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Nitz wrote:

I like the idea of choosing the adventure and difficulty as you go as it's implemented, but the issue is when you play this game early on, you have no perspective on the difficulty level. That's the problem. So I encounter a 12x12 tile. I can chose 1 or 2 lairs. I can choose a hunting pack, or I can not. I can choose 2-8 critters in the pack. What do I do? The issue is, initially, I have no idea. As I become comfortable with the game, I will figure it out, and I think that will be cool. But at first, I didn't know. This creates a bad first impression. A group sets it up, makes some choices, and get's slaughtered... no fun. Conversely, they make it too easy and never get touched... no fun. Even worse, they start off on a story act that has confusing rules or unclear interactions, and on top of it, they seem to be geared towards some heroes that have done some previous leveling. I feel like this creates, with the rule confusions of course, a negative first play experience. That sets people down the wrong path. I think the common experience could be greatly improved if people could sit down and play the first few tiles in a very scripted manner. I know it would have helped me out a lot.


Wait, it DOESN'T have suggestions like that? I would have expected that at a minimum to consider this a "freeform system". I really need to get my buddy to teach us this game. I want to play it, but every time I read a review trying to see what people are loving about it I can't find it.

It sounds like a set of rules to govern movement, combat, etc (poorly explained rules but whatever, ignore that). Then at the end of those rules governing that stuff they then say "Also you can do whatever you want!" and call it a game. It feels like the only difference between the "system" or "framework" provided by Myth is that the devs told you you could houserule or make changes explicitly vs any other game with rules governing movement, combat, etc where they didn't explicitly say "make stuff up" in the rules.
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Ben Nietzel
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It's not that loose.

It has structure. Like I said, my belief is the issue is that when first learning/exploring the game, it's really hard to know what choices you make challenge you vs. crush you or help you vs. turn it into a cake walk.

Give it a shot though with your buddy. I think at the end of the day, its a lot of fun to play.
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