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Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Do Merchant's Hired Ships Count for Defender Rewards/Compensation? rss

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John Doe
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Im leaning towards "yes" even though I guess this could be considered "overpowered" by some players.

I think its pretty balanced since if the Merchan't loses he is forced to discard any hired ships.....
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Grey Fox
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The manual states that you get to draw one card for each ship lost to the warp. Since the hired ships are removed from the game and not lost to the warp, I'd go with "No".
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David Montgomery
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I play that they certainly are ships for the purpose of rewards.
I've yet to encounter a compensation encounter, but I'll agree with Grey Fox that the cards are discarded and wouldn't count for compensation.
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Grey Fox
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Oh yeah, I missed the reward part. There I'd say they definitely count.
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Roberta Yang
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CodenameGreyFox wrote:
The manual states that you get to draw one card for each ship lost to the warp. Since the hired ships are removed from the game and not lost to the warp, I'd go with "No".

That is what the manual says, but taking it literally leads to a lot of strange implications:

* The Zombie never receives compensation.
* The Bulwark only receives 1 compensation.
* The Sting only receives half compensation.
* The Fungus never pays compensation.
* The Void never pays compensation.
* The Cudgel always pays extra compensation.
* The Gambler pays double compensation if the opponent calls and is wrong.
* If The Vacuum is an ally on the losing side and targets the losing main player, the winner needs to pay extra compensation for the ships lost due to the Vacuum's effect.
* Compensation is never paid in the presence of the Black Hole.

Everything works a lot more smoothly if compensation is determined by the number of ships the losing main player had in the encounter when the encounter rather than by the number of the losing main player's ships that actually made it to the warp.

On the other hand, if you do want to read the effects literally, read the Merchant carefully: "Any hired ship that goes to the warp [...] is discarded." It doesn't have the timing of the Zombie, which intervenes before the ships actually land in the warp; it has the timing of the Healer, which intervenes only after the ships have reached the warp. Read literally, the Merchant's hired ship-cards are sent to the warp and are there very briefly before the Merchant yanks them away to the discard pile, which means they were sent to the warp and by the way the rules are written are eligible for compensation.

So regardless of whether you choose to read the rules by the letter of the law or the spirit, the Merchant should receive compensation for the hired ships it loses. (That's half the point of calling them "ships" instead of a +1 combat bonus like the Wild Merchant.)
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Grey Fox
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salty53 wrote:
* The Zombie never receives compensation.
* The Fungus never pays compensation.
* The Void never pays compensation.


Those are the only powers I have fresh in my mind, but aren't those situations actually true?
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Roberta Yang
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CodenameGreyFox wrote:
Those are the only powers I have fresh in my mind, but aren't those situations actually true?

FFG thinks the Zombie one is true, but it never has been in any previous edition of the game and it makes the Zombie a horribly weak power.

The other two are just plain false, and would make the Fungus way too strong.
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Grey Fox
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salty53 wrote:
CodenameGreyFox wrote:
Those are the only powers I have fresh in my mind, but aren't those situations actually true?

FFG thinks the Zombie one is true, but it never has been in any previous edition of the game and it makes the Zombie a horribly weak power.

The other two are just plain false, and would make the Fungus way too strong.


Well, we house ruled those as false, but I honestly thought that by the rules they were true.

How do you justify it not being true for the Fungus? The ships are captured, so they won't go to the warp right?
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Mi Myma
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salty53 wrote:

* The Gambler pays double compensation if the opponent calls and is wrong.

* And the Gambler would receive double compensation if the opponent calls and was right.
* And the same with the Skeptic or his opponent.
 
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