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Subject: Need a bit of information. rss

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Ted Logan
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So being in Canada I have no idea when I will be getting my captains pledge and I have now seen Myth in stores around town for a few days. So I was wondering if there are any KS exclusives right inside the myth box that comes with the KS or are they all just in the big box everything gets shipped with? If not then I think I will go out and buy a copy of the game now and when my pledge comes in I will return the copy that comes in the mail.
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Chris Byer
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As far as i can remember all the exclusive stuff was outside the retail box.
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Dan Cordz
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chbyer wrote:
As far as i can remember all the exclusive stuff was outside the retail box.


This is incorrect. The torchbearer, KS exclusive story quest book, metal treasure tokens and metal hero references all came in my first wave box, as well as the card sleeves and for the spriggan which I had ordered. Hope this helps.


I'm sorry Ted, I misread your question. I believe Chris and the others are correct in that the KS exclusive stuff was not sealed inside the myth game box, but was rather packaged separately inside the shipping container. Enjoy Myth!
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Ted Logan
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Captain Stupendous wrote:
chbyer wrote:
As far as i can remember all the exclusive stuff was outside the retail box.


This is incorrect. The torchbearer, KS exclusive story quest book, metal treasure tokens and metal hero references all came in my first wave box, as well as the card sleeves and for the spriggan which I had ordered. Hope this helps.


I know those things came with the first wave but are they also right in the actual Myth game box or just the brown box everything was delivered in?
 
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Inacuran wrote:
Captain Stupendous wrote:
chbyer wrote:
As far as i can remember all the exclusive stuff was outside the retail box.


This is incorrect. The torchbearer, KS exclusive story quest book, metal treasure tokens and metal hero references all came in my first wave box, as well as the card sleeves and for the spriggan which I had ordered. Hope this helps.


I know those things came with the first wave but are they also right in the actual Myth game box or just the brown box everything was delivered in?


Outside of the game box...
 
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Shawn Hubbard
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Titeman wrote:
Inacuran wrote:
Captain Stupendous wrote:
chbyer wrote:
As far as i can remember all the exclusive stuff was outside the retail box.


This is incorrect. The torchbearer, KS exclusive story quest book, metal treasure tokens and metal hero references all came in my first wave box, as well as the card sleeves and for the spriggan which I had ordered. Hope this helps.


I know those things came with the first wave but are they also right in the actual Myth game box or just the brown box everything was delivered in?


Outside of the game box...


Some of that was in the box I thought. I know the cardboard plates of the KS exclusives are inside the retail box.
 
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VoicelessFaces wrote:
Titeman wrote:
Inacuran wrote:
Captain Stupendous wrote:
chbyer wrote:
As far as i can remember all the exclusive stuff was outside the retail box.


This is incorrect. The torchbearer, KS exclusive story quest book, metal treasure tokens and metal hero references all came in my first wave box, as well as the card sleeves and for the spriggan which I had ordered. Hope this helps.


I know those things came with the first wave but are they also right in the actual Myth game box or just the brown box everything was delivered in?


Outside of the game box...


Some of that was in the box I thought. I know the cardboard plates of the KS exclusives are inside the retail box.


They're in the boards with the main components, so those will be in the retail game too...
 
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Jacob Bazar
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The exclusive stuff is outside of the retail box.
 
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Dan Cordz
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I'm sorry Ted, I misread your question. I believe Chris and the others are correct in that the KS exclusive stuff was not sealed inside the myth game box, but was rather packaged separately inside the shipping container. Enjoy Myth!
 
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Stephen Thomas
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I believe the card sleeves for the Trickster character actually did come inside the ks shipped core box. Those will not be in the store box.
 
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Ohbee wrote:
I believe the card sleeves for the Trickster character actually did come inside the ks shipped core box. Those will not be in the store box.


My sleeves were all outside the core box...
 
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JR Wr
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Inacuran wrote:
So being in Canada I have no idea when I will be getting my captains pledge and I have now seen Myth in stores around town for a few days. So I was wondering if there are any KS exclusives right inside the myth box that comes with the KS or are they all just in the big box everything gets shipped with? If not then I think I will go out and buy a copy of the game now and when my pledge comes in I will return the copy that comes in the mail.


I'm sure that store owner would be delighted that you decided to rent a game from him for free.
More importantly, keeping it off the shelf when someone else could have purchased it while you had iit at home.

Sorry if that comes off crass.
I understand wanting the game in hand.
But I think your plan here is wrong and disingenuous to the store owner in question.

FLGS need all the help they can get, and this is directly hurting them.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in karma, and I can only imagine the end result of a plan such as this.
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Jacq L
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ropya wrote:
FLGS need all the help they can get, and this is directly hurting them.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in karma, and I can only imagine the end result of a plan such as this.


Do you have a comment on the karma of a company taking people's money a year in advance, and then ignoring them while they sell that product on to retailers?

I mean, I "get" that LGSs getting games I kickstart weeks (sometimes months) in advance of my copy is not, of itself, the Most Terrible Thing in the World. I really do.

But when it happens over and over again, it just contributes to the feeling that international backers (but not international retailers) are second class citizens as far as project creators are concerned.
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Jacqland wrote:
I mean, I "get" that LGSs getting games I kickstart weeks (sometimes months) in advance of my copy is not, of itself, the Most Terrible Thing in the World. I really do.


OP, Ask the retailer how he got his copies. The Myth KS had a retailer pledge level, so it's possible that's how the retailer got the game on his shelves, although I don't recall Mercs saying when retailers would receive their shipment. Since he knew international backers would wait months after domestic ones, he could have also made several domestic pledges, have the games sent to a US address dropbox, and gotten the games -- and lucrative exclusives -- that way.

Myself, I will never ever back another project by a creator who puts the retailers before the backers (hello Japanime Games), but make sure that you know how the FLGS got the game before you did.
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MM
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Sam and Max wrote:
Myself, I will never ever back another project by a creator who puts the retailers before the backers (hello Japanime Games)...


+100.

I am definitely critical towards McG on this particular topic and empathize with those seeing Myth in retail while waiting for their shipment. Yeah there are logical reasons for this, but the emotional reaction trumps reasoning.

I'm with S&M on this one ... asking up front when retail receives vs. backers is now an important factor for me - especially if the KS originates in a country other than my own.
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Jacq L
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Sam and Max wrote:
Myself, I will never ever back another project by a creator who puts the retailers before the backers (hello Japanime Games), but make sure that you know how the FLGS got the game before you did.

AFAIK the same distributors service both countries (Canada and the USA). The shop gets the same magazine/email/web update about stuff available to order, regardless of which side of the border they're on. So if it's available for US-based stores, it's available for Canadian ones.

If this was one shop with a few copies, then sure, a retailer level or something similar might be the explanation (though, as MisterManIndy said, reaction trumps reasoning somewhat in how it makes me feel about the company). But when 2 different stores in my city alone have it on the shelf, and the third has it available to order, that's not something likely accounted for by the 6 retail backer levels.
 
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JR Wr
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Jacqland wrote:
ropya wrote:
FLGS need all the help they can get, and this is directly hurting them.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in karma, and I can only imagine the end result of a plan such as this.


Do you have a comment on the karma of a company taking people's money a year in advance, and then ignoring them while they sell that product on to retailers?

I mean, I "get" that LGSs getting games I kickstart weeks (sometimes months) in advance of my copy is not, of itself, the Most Terrible Thing in the World. I really do.

But when it happens over and over again, it just contributes to the feeling that international backers (but not international retailers) are second class citizens as far as project creators are concerned.


Fair opinion.

Never mind though that the retail boxes were packed only pallets pretty much ready to ship to retailers, usually in bulk.
Whereas backers each have orders that have to be sorted out and put together, then shipped individually.

Simple logistics really.
They themselves have to sort out backer shipments.
Where I imagine retail shipments are handled in a different matter.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the emotional feelings behind it.
For me personally, retail getting it before me doesn't bother me.
I'm not bothered by late delivery, no matter how late.
As long as it is delivered.

Side bar to that, refresh my memory, did Mercs ever put forth we would get it before retail.
If so, Ok, I can see being perturbed.
But if not, then that's on your for assuming that that is how it worked.
Being a backer in no way entitles you to getting it first unless they say otherwise.
And again, it all comes down to logistics.
Do we leave those half dozen pallets sitting there taking up space, costing us revenue, when we can ship them out in one afternoon, so we can appease the half dozen backers we can sort and ship in the same amount of time, or do we ship them and make room and provide income?


Beyond that, your rebuttal to my comment does not actually address my comment.
What the OP is talking doing does nothing to Mercs.
But certainly hurts the local game store who has done nothing wrong other than order product.
Doing as he plans is in no way justified by Mercs business model.

Also, who was ignored?
I'm pretty sure it was stated a long time ago that international shipments to backers would be held for one shipment.
Which saved you money as well as them.
Your payment for shipping in no way covers one shipment much less two.

As for 'selling to retailers' if you have no knowledge whatsoever of the inner workings of Mercs behind closed doors.
Now granted, neither do I, just playing Devils advocate.

But how do you know that that that the retailers didn't place pre orders for the game at the same time you did?
You really don't.
And if they did, is there any reason AT ALL that they should have to wait until you get your special package for them to get their cookie cutter box of game boxes? That indeed would be simpler to sort and ship than a backers?

I've jumped around a lot here.

So tldr.

You have no info on the logistics of retail packs vs backer packs, payments, or processes there of.

And more importantly,
Mercs business model has NOTHING to do with the flgs the OP is going to shaft out of potential sales.
Mercs dropping the ball (as you see it) has nothing to do with that store, and shouldn't be used as an excuse to rip them off.

Edit, goofy phone auto corrects.
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Jacq L
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There were 6 "retailer" pledges on the campaign. I highly doubt that two of those were from two of the LGSs in my city.

I also don't see how what the OP is doing can be considered "shafting" an LGS. There's no way the store "loses" money in the situation (unless you do some sort of mental backflip whereby a returned copy that doesn't sell, even if it wouldn't have sold to the OP in the first place, is OP's fault.) Not that I particularly agree with the switcheroo, I just don't think it's economically negative for either party.

The rest of your post is basically just saying it's my own fault for not being American or a retailer. I'm not sure how to approach that, other than to say that I was never given a choice to have my base game shipped early, or to pay the extra shipping costs associated with two shipments. I asked to do that months ago (via email, PM, and Kickstarter comments) and never received a response. But local pickup was offered. So, again, international backers are ignored and American backers are catered to.

Also, the rest seems open to interpretation. Megacon did not say outright that backers would receive it before retail (unlike Dungeon Roll). However, if they say our games will be delivered in Jan 2014, and retail will ship April 2014, isn't that the same thing as saying Backers will get it before retail? Later, they say that international backers will receive it in April, and retailers will receive it in April, and then the retail packages are delivered but the backer packages are not. Now, they have no ETA on backer packages, but we can assume that retail packages (like Orcneas) will be delivered to retailers on time. In backers vs retailers, backers have put out more (money & trust) and received less.

When you look at this in the context of "people that gave them money a year ago" vs "people that didn't", it paints a fairly clear picture to me of where their priorities are.

(yes I am aware Kickstarters are always delayed. My point is not the delay in delivery, but the fact that one delivery "promise" was kept and one wasn't)

Neither of us are privy to the inner workings of Megacon. The difference is that you are giving them the benefit of the doubt and saying it's okay for them to do what's potentially easier for them. Whereas my opinion is that regardless of their inner workings, they're responsible for their conduct and to deliver on what they say they will, or at the very least to treat backers who give them equivalent amounts of money equivalent treatment (and those that give less - ie retailers - treatment equivalent or below that of backers).
 
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JR Wr
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Fair points
I'd like to air this moment to say, I'm hoping there is no offense here, I'm hoping this stays civil, as it seems to have.

And I wasn't saying that retailers necessarily backed the KS.
There are other channels that can allow them to pay a head of time.

I wasn't trying to lay blame on you at all.
I agree they could have tried and allowed people to pay extra.
And it does suck they didn't do that.

That said, think of off of the logistics on that.
They are shipping everything direct to Germany (iirc) and then sending someone over to sort out the shipping.

I understood this to be the plan for overseas shipping all along.

So imagine if they opened the option you're requesting.
An you were the only one to get for it.
They'd have to fly that poor chum twice.

Now I do realize it would make more sense to ship from here and send to you.

Would you be willing to pay exact shipping cost for your first shipment?
Because what you paid for the whole deal is well below local cost, much less shipping across the pond.

Beyond that, would you be OK with customs on the first shipment since logistically it would have to ship from here?

I understand what you mean by delivery promises.
Difference being there of course, retail container made it thru, all the backer stuff didn't.

So I understand being upset, especially since you haven't even gotten the base game yet.

Here's a few notes on that though.
Retail most likely went thru separate distribution channels.
Retail would be simpler to ship, due to being plug and play.
Whereas a backer package has to be sorted and shipped one by one.

Lastly, and most importantly,
The retail container made it thru, not all the KS ones did.
The retail sets were likely air dropped direct.
International backers were to all be sent out in one shot, from over there to save you customs and shipping fees.
Now that plan has back fired, as not everything is in hand.

So yeah, retail has shipped on time, as retail was delivered on time.
Not everything from KS was, so it's late.

Not your fault by any measure.
But they can only do so much.

And yeah I do give them the benefit of the doubt.
I think this is growing pains, not intentional screw you tactics.

I tend to go by hanlons razor.

Never attribute to malice, what can be explained by stupidity.
I hate saying that, as I don't think they are stupid per say,just made stupid decisions. .

 
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Charlie Theel
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Quote:
I also don't see how what the OP is doing can be considered "shafting" an LGS. There's no way the store "loses" money in the situation (unless you do some sort of mental backflip whereby a returned copy that doesn't sell, even if it wouldn't have sold to the OP in the first place, is OP's fault.) Not that I particularly agree with the switcheroo, I just don't think it's economically negative for either party.


You're basically deciding the store is going to loan you money with no interest attached and they have no say in it. I'm sorry but this is not an ethical choice and I'd recommend against it. Many LGS' barely make ends meet, they have spent the money you gave them to pay bills, now only to have to come up with it again to refund you.

They also may now not have the shelf space to restock your game, so they're stuck. Additionally they may have lost a sale due to opportunity being lost, but you already touched on that.

You're transferring a burden to the LGS in a way which they would not agree to if they knew your true intentions. I don't think this is some heinous act or that the OP should be persecuted, but I would hope more people would point out that this is probably not a great idea and you should consider finding ways to help your LGS out instead of hurting them.
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Jacq L
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ropya wrote:
Fair points
I'd like to air this moment to say, I'm hoping there is no offense here, I'm hoping this stays civil, as it seems to have.

Of course. While I'm a little upset at the way the project has fallen out, I'm by no means offended at anyone here and hope I don't come across that way.
ropya wrote:
That said, think of off of the logistics on that.
They are shipping everything direct to Germany (iirc) and then sending someone over to sort out the shipping.

They are sending to Canadian backers from the USA. Via USPS.

ropya wrote:
So imagine if they opened the option you're requesting.
An you were the only one to get for it.
They'd have to fly that poor chum twice.

Even were I the only Canadian backer to go for that, the logistics are such that it's a matter of putting a slightly different shipping label on the same box that American backers received and bringing it to the post office.

ropya wrote:
Would you be willing to pay exact shipping cost for your first shipment?
Because what you paid for the whole deal is well below local cost, much less shipping across the pond.

Yes. That is what I offered to do and what they ignored. Each shipment would cost about $25 to Canada (USPS first class). Minus the $13 already paid (and assuming they wouldn't discount the shipping by however much they discounted American orders to make theirs "free") that's only $37. And totally within what I would be willing to pay to not be stuck waiting while everyone else in the city can go out and buy it. I would have been willing to spend upwards of $50/$60 for shipping if it meant having the game in hand when everyone else did. But that wasn't my choice to make and it wasn't a choice I was given.

ropya wrote:
Beyond that, would you be OK with customs on the first shipment since logistically it would have to ship from here?

I think there is a fundamental miscommunication here. My package will be arriving from the USA. I am going to have to pay customs on it regardless. In fact, it's very possible that I would pay less in customs charges/duty if two packages were send (due to the trade agreements between our two countries and the lower limits on exemptions). IIRC, items valued under around $100 are duty free, depending on category (not 100% sure, though).

ropya wrote:
Here's a few notes on that though.
Retail most likely went thru separate distribution channels.
Retail would be simpler to ship, due to being plug and play.
Whereas a backer package has to be sorted and shipped one by one.

I do understand this, but they had no problem sorting and shipping the first wave to US backers "one by one." I am not saying they need to magically make that elusive sixth container appear. But I am saying they made decisions that negatively impacted international buyers. The reasons are not important from my POV, other than the fact that they value retail money more than they value the money I already gave them.

ropya wrote:
I think this is growing pains, not intentional screw you tactics.

I tend to go by hanlons razor.

Never attribute to malice, what can be explained by stupidity.
I hate saying that, as I don't think they are stupid per say,just made stupid decisions. .


I hope it doesn't come across that I think MGC are evil, or acting maliciously. But for me the results are the same. For me to not have the game while others can walk down the street and purchase it sucks. And that is a direct result of Megacon's actions. They don't have to have been planning it maliciously, nor be rubbing their hands in impish glee or anything. But, to me, it does show that they lack regard for international backers. Whether intentional or not, they acted badly and have not granted us enough consideration to alter their behavior and make up for it. At least, not yet.

Er, that was a lot of writing, but what I mean was: It doesn't matter if they meant well or ill - Ill still happened. I judge them on their actions, not their intentions.

charlest wrote:
You're basically deciding the store is going to loan you money with no interest attached and they have no say in it. I'm sorry but this is not an ethical choice and I'd recommend against it.

From my POV, this is exactly what happened with the Kickstarter, though. They take my money, and I have no say when I will receive the product, despite the base game being available for weeks (and available to my LGS while my copy is being held "hostage").

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with your point somewhat, and it's not something I would do myself.

If Megacon had told me last year that my LGS and everyone in the USA would get the base game months* before I did (ie if I knew the 'true intentions'*), that would definitely have affected my choice to back in the first place.

* - I think "months" is likely and not hyperbolic, by the time the missing container gets found and my package finally makes its way to me.

** - yes, I am aware this was not the distribution they "intended" a year ago. However, each decision along the tree where they favoured retailers over international backers was an intentional choice on their part.
 
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@Jacq,
Ok, one big misconception I had, youre not across the pond.

My entire argument was on the basis of international backers.
And yes, technically Canada is international.
But that just so rings wrong in my head.
Naive thought process for sure.

In the case of our neighbors to the North, I agree.
I cant imagine the logistical problem with getting stuff to you.

How many Canadian Backers can there be?
So many they couldnt send them a message saying Hey, if youll pay X well sort you out?

Yeah, in your case I can see being quite peeved.

One quick side note.
The free shipping for US backers.
I understand the angst that international backers have over that.
But from my view, biased as it is, the free shipping is a perk to make it worth backing.

Main reason I skipped AQ.


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Jacqland wrote:

charlest wrote:
You're basically deciding the store is going to loan you money with no interest attached and they have no say in it. I'm sorry but this is not an ethical choice and I'd recommend against it.

From my POV, this is exactly what happened with the Kickstarter, though. They take my money, and I have no say when I will receive the product, despite the base game being available for weeks (and available to my LGS while my copy is being held "hostage").

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with your point somewhat, and it's not something I would do myself.

If Megacon had told me last year that my LGS and everyone in the USA would get the base game months* before I did (ie if I knew the 'true intentions'*), that would definitely have affected my choice to back in the first place.

* - I think "months" is likely and not hyperbolic, by the time the missing container gets found and my package finally makes its way to me.

** - yes, I am aware this was not the distribution they "intended" a year ago. However, each decision along the tree where they favoured retailers over international backers was an intentional choice on their part.


But here's the thing, you signed up for this. By backing the game, you're taking on the inherent risks, that's why we got all of these amazing stretch goals. Also, you should fully expect every kickstarter to be late and for retailers to get the game first, as this is all too prevalent on kickstarter.

Backing a game on Kickstarter is taking a variable size risk, which you are rewarded for with stretch goals and tons of bonus material. Where is the store's reward for loaning you that money?

 
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charlest wrote:
But here's the thing, you signed up for this. By backing the game, you're taking on the inherent risks, that's why we got all of these amazing stretch goals. Also, you should fully expect every kickstarter to be late and for retailers to get the game first, as this is all too prevalent on kickstarter.

Backing a game on Kickstarter is taking a variable size risk, which you are rewarded for with stretch goals and tons of bonus material. Where is the store's reward for loaning you that money?
I do get what you're saying. I just wanted to point out the parallel. It was flawed, though, maybe too much for it to be relevant. So I retract it.

But I do think the "every Kickstarter does this" argument is totally lame. Not every Kickstarter makes international backers wait weeks longer than American ones for rewards to ship - Of projects I backed, exactly TWO that did this, Myth and Dungeon Roll. Exactly three were available at retail before my rewards came (again, Myth and Dungeon Roll. The third was a hot sauce that, in their defense was available at US supermarkets and not in Canada).

For the record, I've backed 96 97 projects, about 80 of which are near or finished shipping/completion. 2-4% is not the realm of something I should "fully expect" to happen, and I don't think my disappointment in Megacon for their actions is misplaced in that regard.
 
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ropya wrote:

The free shipping for US backers.
I understand the angst that international backers have over that.
But from my view, biased as it is, the free shipping is a perk to make it worth backing.


I think of it as US backers didn't have to pay additional shipping costs.

Rest assured that McG factored domestic shipping into their investment model. Non-Domestic paid extra shipping on top of what everyone already had included in their pledge.
 
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