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Subject: I Need Some Counter-Arguments to a Commonly Held Belief rss

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Jim Cote
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This EXACT question was posted back in 2008. laugh
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Art is both in the perception as well as the creation. They are always in balance. We approach art as we approach all things in life: through the lens of our own experience. We are each unique and unrepeatable manifestations of...life, the universe, God - whatever you might call it. So as art exists in the receiver as well as the creator, it will manifest anew, unique and unrepeatable.
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LennyS wrote:
Art is both in the perception as well as the creation. They are always in balance. We approach art as we approach all things in life: through the lens of our own experience. We are each unique and unrepeatable manifestations of...life, the universe, God - whatever you might call it. So as art exists in the receiver as well as the creator, it will manifest anew, unique and unrepeatable.


Whatever, Snowflake.
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LennyS wrote:
Art is both in the perception as well as the creation. They are always in balance. We approach art as we approach all things in life: through the lens of our own experience. We are each unique and unrepeatable manifestations of...life, the universe, God - whatever you might call it. So as art exists in the receiver as well as the creator, it will manifest anew, unique and unrepeatable.


Came here to say this exact thing.
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korxonthos wrote:
"everything that has been done has already been done, from music to visual art to stories".


Some pretty obvious examples.

Writing did not exist prior to 3200 BCE.
Screenprinting did not exist prior to 960.
Photography did not exist prior to 1800.
Films did not exist prior to 1900.
Video games did not exist prior to 1930.
Hip hop did not exist prior to the 1970.

Architecture, sculpture, painting, dance... all had to be invented.

Not only have existing art forms not been exhausted, as we continue to create new inventions, we will continue to create new forms of art.
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korxonthos wrote:
everything that has been done has already been done


That's simply a tautology, impossible to argue against.

If you meant everything that can be done has already been done, then obviously not.
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David Bush
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korxonthos wrote:
In many art and literature forums, there are many people who believe that "everything that has been done has already been done, from music to visual art to stories". While I don't think absolute creativity can exist (even if it did, it would be too strange and nobody would really be able to associate with it), I feel like the saying is an incredibly tiring phrase that is used to justify truly terrible, hackneyed works.

What are some effective counter-arguments I can use against this line of reasoning?

Well sure, everything that has been done has already been done.
Did you mean to say, and I know you're not the one saying it, that everything that will be done has already been done? What does that mean?

If you give words too much permission, they will burn your barn, kill your family, rape your dog, and steal your Pez dispenser.
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Robert Wesley
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korxonthos wrote:
What are some effective counter-arguments I can use against this line of reasoning?
Kindly inform 'toi~lettes' that there "were" SUCH for 'moi' while you must "C"-2-"B" beliefed! whistle
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Jon M
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korxonthos wrote:
ekted wrote:
This EXACT question was posted back in 2008. laugh


Really? If so, I definitely would have loved to read the responses.


Fwooooosh!
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frumpish wrote:
korxonthos wrote:
"everything that has been done has already been done, from music to visual art to stories".


Some pretty obvious examples.

Writing did not exist prior to 3200 BCE.
Screenprinting did not exist prior to 960.
Photography did not exist prior to 1800.
Films did not exist prior to 1900.
Video games did not exist prior to 1930.
Hip hop did not exist prior to the 1970.

Architecture, sculpture, painting, dance... all had to be invented.

Not only have existing art forms not been exhausted, as we continue to create new inventions, we will continue to create new forms of art.



All of those things did exist before then.
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Altair IV wrote:
All of those things did exist before then.


How could something exist prior to the birth of the technology that made it possible?
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Brandon
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The point is that the development of art is a gradual process. So, any new piece of art is going to be inextricably tied to others that have come before it, while (hopefully) carving out its own identity among its predecessors. To a cynic, it looks like everything has been done before, but you have to take a very narrow view to come to that conclusion. It's the way the inspirations are combined that's interesting.
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frumpish wrote:
Altair IV wrote:
All of those things did exist before then.


How could something exist prior to the birth of the technology that made it possible?



ever seen a beaver use technology to build a dam?

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Looking at these stars suddenly dwarfed my own troubles and all the gravities of terrestrial life. I thought of their unfathomable distance, and the slow inevitable drift of their movements out of the unknown past into the unknown future. H.G. Wells
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Altair IV wrote:
frumpish wrote:
Altair IV wrote:
All of those things did exist before then.


How could something exist prior to the birth of the technology that made it possible?



ever seen a beaver use technology to build a dam?



I've never seen one spin a record or take a photograph.
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korxonthos wrote:

What are some effective counter-arguments I can use against this line of reasoning?


There is no effective counter-argument as it is not a line of reasoning.
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Kelsey Rinella
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korxonthos wrote:
In many art and literature forums, there are many people who believe that "everything that has been done has already been done, from music to visual art to stories". While I don't think absolute creativity can exist (even if it did, it would be too strange and nobody would really be able to associate with it), I feel like the saying is an incredibly tiring phrase that is used to justify truly terrible, hackneyed works.

What are some effective counter-arguments I can use against this line of reasoning?


Here are some:
1. It's effectively an appeal to ignorance. Suppose you were to suggest a work of art which seemed original to both you and your interlocutor. The natural response would be to say that, just because we didn't know it's predecessor doesn't mean there wasn't one.
2. When was the last new thing in art introduced? I expect the answer to be weak.
3. Smell-o-vision. Decent haptic art. We have some untapped sensory modalities--Disney World plays around with these a little, but only enough to demonstrate that we can really connect in an unfamiliar way with such things; the uses are generally not subtle.
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korxonthos wrote:
Subject: I Need Some Counter-Arguments to a Commonly Held Belief


"Nuh uh."
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frumpish wrote:
Altair IV wrote:
frumpish wrote:
Altair IV wrote:
All of those things did exist before then.


How could something exist prior to the birth of the technology that made it possible?



ever seen a beaver use technology to build a dam?



I've never seen one spin a record or take a photograph.



Never seen your reflection or heard birds chirping? No technology needed.


Everything has been done. The only difference is how we remember it.
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Do you remember The Flood? Yeah, me neither. Because that's what happens when we're done making stuff up. The gearwork of creation ticks over like that giant Aztec wheel rolling across Humanity's neck, the crunch of bone the clarion call of the Götterdämmeragnarokalypse and BANG we're gone. So who cares if it's just Shakespeare in powered armor?

Never stop making stuff up—even if it's the worst, most trite & hackneyed crap—for there is nothing more dangerous than a bored God.
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Time will tell if artists or a piece of art will be remembered.
Critics, on the other hand...
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Julius Waller
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Certainly original creativity is rarer than derived creativity. For being a knock off of something already done it does not necessarily make it less artful. The roman statues we adore were deemed knock offs by the roman of the REAL works of art by the greeks. Nothing changes in that respect and truly creative innovation remains as sought after as ever before. To state everything has already been done is a lazy form of intellectual complacency or condescension that only exists among those with little or no imagination.

Not to mention that you are original quote that everything that has been done has been done already is rather circular. By definition if it was done it has been done.
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Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again.

André Gide
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korxonthos wrote:
TrustyJules wrote:
To state everything has already been done is a lazy form of intellectual complacency or condescension that only exists among those with little or no imagination.


I surveyed the art galleries of deviants who made statements of that sort, and you are definitely right: those types of deviants lack creativity. On the other hand, I observed deviants with outstanding, well-rendered imaginative artworks and none of them made such intellectually lazy statements.

TrustyJules wrote:

Not to mention that you are original quote that everything that has been done has been done already is rather circular. By definition if it was done it has been done.


It wasn't really my quote. I heard it form a person in another forum site trying to "encourage" an artist who ran out of ideas. That's why I needed some kind of rebuttal so I can defend myself in case someone else makes that discouraging statement.


You could also spin it the other way. If everything's already been done, then your work is no less original than that of the greatest artists still working. So chill out about the originality, and have fun making what interests you and working on your execution.
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