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My wife and I have been working on a dice game for a while now and it has gone through several revisions along the way. We are finishing up the last round of playtesting before submitting to publishers and I wanted to see if anyone would be interested in checking out the rules and giving any feedback.

The link to the rules is here or contact me if you would like me to send them as an attachment:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7949187/Titan%20Dice/Tit...

We are mostly looking for clarity, but any grammar or wording issues are also a concern. I'd be happy to give credit in the acknowledgements and give out small chunks of Geek Gold depending on the amount of feedback given. We are looking for brutally honest feedback so don't hold anything back.



Thanks!




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Shawn George
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Suggestions:

Page 1

The setup section says to remove the creature cards with the four player and one player icons when playing with two or three players, and then later on pages 3/4, you have a separate section for "Four Players" which essentially just says remove the one player cards. Why isn't this all together in one section?

Page 2

Turn Step 2 says "Spend of Pass". I believe this should say "Spend or Pass".

The whole Spend or Pass section could be a lot more clear, in my opinion. It seems to me like there are four possible ways to spend dice here:
1. Buy a creature card of a type that the player does not already own.
2. Buy a creature card of a type that the player does already own.
3. Buy a creature card from another player, exchanging their own similar card in the process.
4. Use an ability on a card the player already owns.

Perhaps you should list it out like that, with a single cohesive section at the beginning showing how spending dice on these things is alike, but breaking apart the differences.

Is the cost to activate an ability the same as the cost to purchase the card?

When does Step 3 happen? Do all players do Step 2 in turn order and then make their decisions on whether to re-roll or lock again in turn order? Or does each player do Step 2 and Step 3 together in turn order?

Page 3

"Strikes are always set aside if rolled (after the initial roll)." Reword to "Strikes are always set in the Strike Area..." to eliminate ambiguity. Also, is it Strike Area or Strikes Area? I've seen Strike Area on the text but Strikes Area on the example player card illustrations.

Step 4: "Players continue the Re-rolling and Spending sequence..." I would suggest re-wording to "players repeat Steps 2 and 3".

Regarding the section on Perfect Roll: Can the wild die count toward the perfect roll?

Page 4

I'm confused by "After the action is taken, the pair of dice used for the Ability is moved to the Spent Dice Pool." Where does the "pair of dice" come from? Am I wrong in thinking that each ability can cost either 1, 2, or 3 dice?

Rescue ability - So a wild counts against your three strikes, despite the die not actually showing a strike?

Reinforce ability - The word "active" is misspelled.

Page 5

You say that creatures in a cage cannot be stolen (also stated on page 1), but can they be lost due to the Sabotage/Capsize abilities? Also, the word "example" in this section is misspelled.

Catch ability - The die in the Strike Area doesn't count against the 3 strikes, correct? Might get confusing, especially if a wild die from the Rescue ability does count against the 3 strikes.

Ensnare ability - Is this two of the same creature, one each of two different creatures, or either option?
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Putts wrote:
Suggestions:

Page 1

The setup section says to remove the creature cards with the four player and one player icons when playing with two or three players, and then later on pages 3/4, you have a separate section for "Four Players" which essentially just says remove the one player cards. Why isn't this all together in one section?


Great point, fixed!

Putts wrote:


Page 2

Turn Step 2 says "Spend of Pass". I believe this should say "Spend or Pass".

The whole Spend or Pass section could be a lot more clear, in my opinion. It seems to me like there are four possible ways to spend dice here:
1. Buy a creature card of a type that the player does not already own.
2. Buy a creature card of a type that the player does already own.
3. Buy a creature card from another player, exchanging their own similar card in the process.
4. Use an ability on a card the player already owns.

Perhaps you should list it out like that, with a single cohesive section at the beginning showing how spending dice on these things is alike, but breaking apart the differences.

Is the cost to activate an ability the same as the cost to purchase the card?

When does Step 3 happen? Do all players do Step 2 in turn order and then make their decisions on whether to re-roll or lock again in turn order? Or does each player do Step 2 and Step 3 together in turn order?


Cleaned this up a bit using your suggestions for the different purchase options. To answer your question though, players to step 2 in turn order, then step 3 in turn order. Only the rolling (step 1) is done simultaneously.

Putts wrote:


Page 3

"Strikes are always set aside if rolled (after the initial roll)." Reword to "Strikes are always set in the Strike Area..." to eliminate ambiguity. Also, is it Strike Area or Strikes Area? I've seen Strike Area on the text but Strikes Area on the example player card illustrations.


Fixed.

Putts wrote:


Step 4: "Players continue the Re-rolling and Spending sequence..." I would suggest re-wording to "players repeat Steps 2 and 3".

Regarding the section on Perfect Roll: Can the wild die count toward the perfect roll?

Page 4

I'm confused by "After the action is taken, the pair of dice used for the Ability is moved to the Spent Dice Pool." Where does the "pair of dice" come from? Am I wrong in thinking that each ability can cost either 1, 2, or 3 dice?

Rescue ability - So a wild counts against your three strikes, despite the die not actually showing a strike?

Reinforce ability - The word "active" is misspelled.


Good points. Cleaned this up some.

Putts wrote:


Page 5

You say that creatures in a cage cannot be stolen (also stated on page 1), but can they be lost due to the Sabotage/Capsize abilities? Also, the word "example" in this section is misspelled.

Catch ability - The die in the Strike Area doesn't count against the 3 strikes, correct? Might get confusing, especially if a wild die from the Rescue ability does count against the 3 strikes.

Ensnare ability - Is this two of the same creature, one each of two different creatures, or either option?




More good points. Cleared up the confusing parts a bit. Changed it so that the die in the Catch ability is set aside instead of the Strikes area. Added clarification to Ensnare - can be same or different creatures.

Thanks a TON for the valuable feedback! Your questions and suggestions are all very valid and helpful.
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Kyle Currie
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Don't have the time to proofread, but I wanted to chime in that I love the concept and the gameplay!

A dice game with a solo options and Greek Myth influences? Love it!
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Shawn George
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meskue wrote:
Thanks a TON for the valuable feedback! Your questions and suggestions are all very valid and helpful.


Happy to help. I own and enjoy a couple of your titles and am looking forward to trying this one out as well. Thanks for the generous tip!

Also, if you want to upload your revised rules so that I can give it another pass, let me know. I'd be happy to do so.
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Putts wrote:
meskue wrote:
Thanks a TON for the valuable feedback! Your questions and suggestions are all very valid and helpful.


Happy to help. I own and enjoy a couple of your titles and am looking forward to trying this one out as well. Thanks for the generous tip!

Also, if you want to upload your revised rules so that I can give it another pass, let me know. I'd be happy to do so.


Thanks very much, Shawn!

I uploaded a newer draft so the same link from before can be used to download that.
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Shawn George
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Looking good! A couple more minor things I spotted this time around:

Page 1: The Setup section says "remove the Creature cards with the four player and icons." I don't think that "and" should be there.

Page 3: Under Solitare Variant, you have a parenthetical statement that says "(i.e. - in the fourth round...", but you're missing the right parenthesis.

I think everything else is looking good for the most part. I still think there's a little room for confusion regarding whether a cage prevents a creature from being "lost" and "stolen", or just "stolen", but other than that, I don't see any serious issues. I feel like I could pick up the game at this point and play it properly without having to ask for further clarification on anything.

Good luck with pitching this to a publisher!
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Andrew Meadow
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I don't have any clarity suggestions. My only thoughts are that the rules are quite dry for a concept as silly as collecting mythical creatures for the zoo of Olympus.

Everyone knows that the "Legendary Zoo of Olympus" serves the finest meats and cheeses in the land to the animals that inhabit it.

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Ian Hedberg
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Here are the points I was confused on:

Quote:
If playing with two or three players, remove the Creature cards with the four player and icons.


First, a typo : "player and icons". Second, I think you should show what the 4-player icon looks like here.


Quote:
When spent, the dice used

Only active dice can be spent, right? The word "spend" implies that you must move active dice to the spent pool as a cost, but without "spend"'s implication, it's hard to figure out what's going on.


Quote:
Creatures may be spent in one of four different ways:

When you spend a creature symbol, you can only buy a matching creature card, right? The rules don't say this and seem to imply you can buy any creature card with any creature symbol.

Quote:
(a Perfect Roll)


So a perfect roll causes you to advance 1 creature space on each creature type, while any other (not strike out) roll would only let you choose 1 creature, but you'd advance 1 space per symbol of that type you had among your dice? It seems like these two possibilities are about even in benefit, but calling it a perfect roll seems to imply that it's something special and powerful you should always go for if you think you can make it. Perhaps "variety roll" or something else would be a better name.

Quote:
Ties are broken by the order in which players collected their final Creature.

I don't understand this at all. Does whoever goes first in turn order win the tie? Does whoever bought their fifth creature card first win? It seems like once players lock in and choose which creature symbol they're going to use to capture creatures, they all capture simultaniously.

Quote:
Set up your own player card normally, but add a second “Exodus” card.


Is this exodus card a second ordinary player card?


Quote:
The price of each Creature card is noted at the bottom by the number of that Creature shown (1, 2, or 3).

What's the currency? What do I spend and how? Oh wait, on third thought, the creature card section mentioned you could spend dice on creature card abilities. So a [2] means in order to use the ability I must have at least 2 dice in my active pool that show symbols that match the creature card, and I must move 2 of these matching dice to my spent pool, right?

Quote:
Ensnare [3] - Collect up to two of any Creatures (may be the same or different types).


So do I advance a single row on my card 2 spaces, or 2 rows each 1 space, or are dice involved like in the minotaur's other abilities?

Quote:
Whirlpool (Solitaire only) [2] – Remove one Creature from the Exodus card and add it to your card.


So do you remove the creature marker from the exodus card entirely (making it impossible to get "lost") and then put it on you card as a second marker? If so, how do the rules handle there being 2 markers on the same creature track (and thus 2 answers to the question "how many of this creature do I have captured?")

[/q] Hydra [/q]
These "creatures" are captured creatures, right, not dice or creature cards?

Quote:
However, the player may choose to spend the Creature and bring it back below the fourth Space.


On re-read, this is confusing. I though you could only spend dice. Does this mean that when you spend a die you must move back 1 captured creature of matching symbol? Or that you can move a captured creature back 1 space in lieu of spending a die to buy a creature card?



The termonology makes things confusing. You have creature cards and creature spaces on your player card and creature symbols on the dice. Every time the rulebook says "creature" I have to try to think and figure out which kind of thing makes sense here. If they were called, say "power cards", "captured creatures" and "invocation symbols" or something even more distinct, that would help. Just make clear that to buy a power card you need to spend a die showing a matching invocation symbol etc.

A diagram showing the strange structure of turns and rounds and so on could be helpful. I think I have it figured out like so:

[begin round]
\/
[initial roll, reroll strikes]
\/
[begin spending loop. Continue until all players have locked or striked out.]
\/
[everyone collects creatures (except those who struck out)]
\/
[check for game end]
\/
[pass first player token]
\/
[begin next round; return to the top of this loop]

Spending loop

[first player chooses one:
• Pass
• Spend dice to purchase new creature card from pool.
• Spend dice to swap creature card with new creature card of same type in pool.
• Spend dice to swap creature card with new creature card of same type belonging to another player.
• Use creature card ability ]
\/
[second player chooses one from same menu of options]
\/
[third player chooses]
...
[last player chooses]
\/
[all players choose LOCK or CONTINUE]
\/
[players who chose LOCK sit out the game for remainder of this spending loop]
\/
[players who chose CONTINUE roll active, spent, or active and spent pools]
\/
[check for strike out. Struck out players sit out for remainder of spending loop]
\/
[return to top of spending loop]

Is this sequence right?

I wish you all the best with publishers!
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Putts wrote:
Looking good! A couple more minor things I spotted this time around:

Page 1: The Setup section says "remove the Creature cards with the four player and icons." I don't think that "and" should be there.

Page 3: Under Solitare Variant, you have a parenthetical statement that says "(i.e. - in the fourth round...", but you're missing the right parenthesis.

I think everything else is looking good for the most part. I still think there's a little room for confusion regarding whether a cage prevents a creature from being "lost" and "stolen", or just "stolen", but other than that, I don't see any serious issues. I feel like I could pick up the game at this point and play it properly without having to ask for further clarification on anything.

Good luck with pitching this to a publisher!


Good points, I'll need to fix those. Thanks!
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Funky Disco wrote:
I don't have any clarity suggestions. My only thoughts are that the rules are quite dry for a concept as silly as collecting mythical creatures for the zoo of Olympus.

Everyone knows that the "Legendary Zoo of Olympus" serves the finest meats and cheeses in the land to the animals that inhabit it.



HA HA! Good stuff, there is certainly room for it to be livened up a bit. I'll have to give that some thought to come up with more flavor.
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Thanks very much for the input and questions!

The Loneliest Banana wrote:
Here are the points I was confused on:

Quote:
If playing with two or three players, remove the Creature cards with the four player and icons.


First, a typo : "player and icons". Second, I think you should show what the 4-player icon looks like here.

Fixed typo and good point about the player icon.

The Loneliest Banana wrote:

Only active dice can be spent, right? The word "spend" implies that you must move active dice to the spent pool as a cost, but without "spend"'s implication, it's hard to figure out what's going on.
When you spend a creature symbol, you can only buy a matching creature card, right? The rules don't say this and seem to imply you can buy any creature card with any creature symbol.

Correct, I’ll see if I can clear that up some.
Also correct, the symbols must match. Adding that clarification.


Quote:
(a Perfect Roll)

Good points about the “perfect” roll. I guess the name is because it is complete, or one from each Creature. In the beginning of the game it can be more beneficial, and you are correct that it is not always optimal. I’ll need to think about that. All this “perfect roll” and “variety roll” talk makes me hungry for sushi though.

The Loneliest Banana wrote:


Quote:
Ties are broken by the order in which players collected their final Creature.

I don't understand this at all. Does whoever goes first in turn order win the tie? Does whoever bought their fifth creature card first win? It seems like once players lock in and choose which creature symbol they're going to use to capture creatures, they all capture simultaniously.

Good questions. The number of Creature cards acquired do not have anything to do with the victory condition, they just assist in collecting Creatures. Technically, players lock in the Creatures in turn order so that is what is meant by breaking ties. In reality, players pretty much lock in at the same time once everyone has Struck Out or decided to pass because the locking part doesn’t really affect other players. I’ll see if I can clear this part up a bit.

The Loneliest Banana wrote:

Quote:
Set up your own player card normally, but add a second “Exodus” card.


Is this exodus card a second ordinary player card?

Good question. It is just a regular player card. I added that clarification.

The Loneliest Banana wrote:

So a [2] means in order to use the ability I must have at least 2 dice in my active pool that show symbols that match the creature card, and I must move 2 of these matching dice to my spent pool, right?

Exactly

The Loneliest Banana wrote:

Quote:
Ensnare [3] - Collect up to two of any Creatures (may be the same or different types).


So do I advance a single row on my card 2 spaces, or 2 rows each 1 space, or are dice involved like in the minotaur's other abilities?

Another good question. You can do either of those advancements. Other than the Active dice used to activate the ability, the dice are not used like in the other Minotaur ability; you can advance any Creatures of your choice.


The Loneliest Banana wrote:

Quote:
Whirlpool (Solitaire only) [2] – Remove one Creature from the Exodus card and add it to your card.


So do you remove the creature marker from the exodus card entirely (making it impossible to get "lost") and then put it on you card as a second marker? If so, how do the rules handle there being 2 markers on the same creature track (and thus 2 answers to the question "how many of this creature do I have captured?")[/a]
I’ll need to clarify this. The Creature markers on a Creature card are not physically traded and there can only be one Creature marker on each row. Similar to the other Kraken abilities, the other player moves their marker down one and you move yours up one to reflect the transaction.

The Loneliest Banana wrote:

Hydra

These "creatures" are captured creatures, right, not dice or creature cards?[/q]
Correct. “Creatures” generally refers to the captured Creatures on the player’s Creature card.


The Loneliest Banana wrote:

Quote:
However, the player may choose to spend the Creature and bring it back below the fourth Space.


On re-read, this is confusing. I though you could only spend dice. Does this mean that when you spend a die you must move back 1 captured creature of matching symbol? Or that you can move a captured creature back 1 space in lieu of spending a die to buy a creature card?

Great catch! I believe this is an artifact from a previous version where you could “spend” captured Creatures the same as Creatures in your Active dice pool. I may re-visit that idea now that other things have changed, but in the current rules you can only “spend” the Active dice. What that is also referring to is the act of losing a Creature because of the Hydra ability to gain other Creatures. In that sense, “spend” is a terrible word choice and I’ll need to change that.

The Loneliest Banana wrote:

The termonology makes things confusing. You have creature cards and creature spaces on your player card and creature symbols on the dice. Every time the rulebook says "creature" I have to try to think and figure out which kind of thing makes sense here. If they were called, say "power cards", "captured creatures" and "invocation symbols" or something even more distinct, that would help. Just make clear that to buy a power card you need to spend a die showing a matching invocation symbol etc.

Great points. That would certainly eliminate some confusion from the multiple meanings of “Creature.” I’ll need to go through and clarify that.


The Loneliest Banana wrote:

A diagram showing the strange structure of turns and rounds and so on could be helpful. I think I have it figured out like so:
.
.
.

Is this sequence right?


I do need to give a turn-by-turn example and we may film a game example to make it easier to visualize.

Your sequence seems pretty accurate. One clarification though is that when a player chooses to Lock, they are done for that round (i.e. the entire spending loop for that round). Also, at the beginning of each spending loop, players simultaneously roll their dice. Because the initial roll is listed outside of the spending loop, I suppose it makes more sense to have the re-roll listed at the *end* of the spending loop in preparation for the next spending sequence. I hope that makes more sense, but I think you have a good handle on the flow.

Thanks again for the great input and questions!


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