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Subject: Is this a CCG? rss

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Arturo Cavari
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Hi I recently discovered this game and am curious if it's a CCG or an LCG model game.

PS: I know that FFG probably has the rights for "LCG", I just want to know if you have to buy blind boosters.
 
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thegrinder wrote:
Hi I recently discovered this game and am curious if it's a CCG or an LCG model game.

PS: I know that FFG probably has the rights for "LCG", I just want to know if you have to buy blind boosters.


It's more of a hybrid, but certainly not LCG or purely CCG.

Instead you get a core set of fixed cards. You can add boosters as per CCGs which contain random cards, but predetermined rarities. But then each "booster" comes with what is called an "avak shar" which acts as a "wild-card" which can be redeemed from their online store for any cards you wish (though this system is not yet up and running). So to this means you do not have to buy countless boosters trying to chase a single rare card.

It is also purported that someone with just the core set can compete on level-terms with someone who buys lots of extra boosters, because (a) the core set is comprehensive (b) you are limited by the number of "powerful" cards you can use each game and (c) the core set offers some of the most advanced cards, but to use them takes time and practice (not money) to acquire the skills needed to cast them.

So you can see the answer is not a straight one, since Serpent's Tongue brings a combination of features to the table, with the "collectable booster" element simulating players "researching" to seek out new skills.

Hope this long answer helps !

Rick
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Ted Swalwell
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You do have to blind-buy boosters, however.
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savantt wrote:
You do have to blind-buy boosters, however.


yes, what Ted says is the "short answer"
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Arturo Cavari
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Thanks

I'm not sure if I want to get into Serpent Tongue if it's a CCG, because I've been down the MTG road and it costs waaaaay too much money for me. I guess I'll wait and see.
 
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thegrinder wrote:
Thanks

I'm not sure if I want to get into Serpent Tongue if it's a CCG, because I've been down the MTG road and it costs waaaaay too much money for me. I guess I'll wait and see.


Save your money. It's beautiful but in the end it's yet another CCG and a really niche one at that. Plus the designer is an ass.
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Arturo Cavari
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Slysally wrote:
thegrinder wrote:
Thanks

I'm not sure if I want to get into Serpent Tongue if it's a CCG, because I've been down the MTG road and it costs waaaaay too much money for me. I guess I'll wait and see.


Save your money. It's beautiful but in the end it's yet another CCG and a really niche one at that. Plus the designer is an ass.


Wow, why's that?
 
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George Breden
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Hmm ... I don't know the designer so can't comment on that part. I do think that although this is a CCG, the format really does work against being a money sink like MTG is. Read more information on here to see all of the reasons why chasing rares isn't an issue here -- including the Avak'shar cards, the limitation on number of high level cards in your deck, and great core set. If you like the idea of the game, whether or not you want to invest in the language side of it (because you can play without that if you want), then the game-play is really solid as it includes one on one, team play, cooperative, and limited area control. Still waiting on the 'Out of Eden' RPG like campaign, but this promises to add another dimension to play as well. I wouldn't write it off as just another CCG, is all.
 
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DEFINITELY NOT "just another CCG"... I did buy a Core set and an Archive case and know this is giving me a tonne of gameplay. I know I'm not going to play competitively, and I know this is all I will ever need to enjoy this game amongst a group of friends. But, I am not a "completist".. so maybe I have that on my side

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Chad Ackerman
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You could just get the core set. It has what you need for walkthrough games for 1 or 2 players, and enough cards to customize the two codices it ships with for your own personal layouts. There are four solo/coop encounters as well to test your skills against.

Good luck and keep on gaming!
 
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Arturo Cavari
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a_flying_possum wrote:
Hmm ... I don't know the designer so can't comment on that part. I do think that although this is a CCG, the format really does work against being a money sink like MTG is. Read more information on here to see all of the reasons why chasing rares isn't an issue here -- including the Avak'shar cards, the limitation on number of high level cards in your deck, and great core set. If you like the idea of the game, whether or not you want to invest in the language side of it (because you can play without that if you want), then the game-play is really solid as it includes one on one, team play, cooperative, and limited area control. Still waiting on the 'Out of Eden' RPG like campaign, but this promises to add another dimension to play as well. I wouldn't write it off as just another CCG, is all.


How can I play without the language part? Wouldn't high level cards be overpowered?
 
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yes and no (!) Two reasons for "no":

(1) Sometimes you need the level 2 rather than the level 4, because there is a trade- off for the level 4 - e.g. a level 2 may be inherently weaker, but may be given "bonded" (meaning it is easier to cast the spell multiple times, versus just once)

(2) there are limits to your codex - you are limited to only a few fluency 4 spells, but must have more fluency 2 spells, so you can't just fill out your codex with high-powered rare cards... by necessity you need a whole collection of weaker and common spells.
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Chad Ackerman
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The language part of the game is more thematic flair (or fluff). You can only have two fluency 4 in your codex, and that limitation is what balances the strength and efficiency of the higher fluency inscriptions. The language will be more necessary in competitive environments and the RPG campaigns.
 
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It doesn't feel like one. The player who knows their deck best is the player who will win. You could build a codex of the most rare cards and still lose to a player who knows how their deck works better than you know how yours works. In Magic, you can truly be outclassed by the number and strength of rares in your opponent's deck.

That's not to say that Serpent's Tongue won't get to that point, but the way that it stands right now, with the arcanum of cards available, the balance of power and cost, and the limit on number of high fluency cards, significantly curtails that tendency. The few "game-breakers" discovered so far have been reduced in some way, but even so these are generally available to all players through the Avak-Shar system (which you should be able to purchase by buying a handful of packs).

Put it another way, I bought a core set and a handful of packs, and I compete on a pretty decent basis with guys who bought several cases. Their advantage is being able to reconstruct and fine-tune their codex to a better degree than I can (and having access to a level 4 version of a spell while I only have a level 2), but even then it's a good duel. Contrast that with coming to a Friday Night Magic having only a pre-con starter deck, and I know I'm going to get trounced.
 
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Troels Rohde Hansen
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How is it that Magic the gathering has cost people so much money?

This is not the first post that go:

1: Is this s CCG?
2: It has some elements of it, but there is some mitigating.
1: So it is a CCG?
2: Not entirely.
1: Ah I am not going to play this CCG, because I somehow spend a lot of money I didn't want to on Magic, which was a CCG, like this!
2: but... meh
 
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Quote:
How is it that Magic the gathering has cost people so much money?


It is an ever evolving game, and keeping up with the new expansions is very costly. Also personally I got bored of a deck after 3-4 months and wanted to build a new one.

But that has actually no relationship to why I started this thread: I was not sure if this game had blind boosters and wanted to know why. And that was merely because I don't like buying blind boosters, that's it.

Going back to the MTG comparison: I feel like it's inevitable that every head to head spell casting and/or creature summoning card game will be compared to MTG, since it's often the entry point to board and card games for several people (at least for a lot of people I know).
Personally after I discovered designer board games (years after I quit MTG) I spent several months trying to find a game that could give me the same feel of "controlled chaos" and strategy that Magic gave me. In the end I found no game that gave me the same exact feeling, but I found several games that scratch my itches (you can see which ones on my profile).
 
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Thaddeus Ryan
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Maybe the simplest answer is to your blind booster question.

Are there blind boosters? Yes.

Do you have to buy them to have a competitive deck? No.

How do you stay competitive not having blind boosters when your opponent spent their last Google dividend on four cases of them?

The cards add more horizontal complexity (options for play) than vertical complexity (over-powered versus cheaper cards). Those that add vertical complexity, your opponent can only have four of them in a codex of 27, and they cost 5 Resonance (the highest possible Res roll) to reattune so its likely your opponent will only play them once.
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Arturo Cavari
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losh14 wrote:
Maybe the simplest answer is to your blind booster question.

Are there blind boosters? Yes.

Do you have to buy them to have a competitive deck? No.

How do you stay competitive not having blind boosters when your opponent spent their last Google dividend on four cases of them?

The cards add more horizontal complexity (options for play) than vertical complexity (over-powered versus cheaper cards). Those that add vertical complexity, your opponent can only have four of them in a codex of 27, and they cost 5 Resonance (the highest possible Res roll) to reattune so its likely your opponent will only play them once.


Thanks

I guess I'll wait and see if the base set makes its way to Europe (at a reasonable price).
 
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George Breden
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Good point about the re-attunement (retrieving from discard pile) cost being higher for higher level cards! That really puts an emphasis on level one and two spells being used, in addition to the codex limits on level 3 and 4 spells. Both of these taken into account mean that it will be very hard to build overpowered decks, and I for one am really enjoying that with each magi being constrained, there is a larger emphasis on teamwork and use of ally mages. Can't wait for the RPG material to do this even more!
 
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Troels Rohde Hansen
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It also make the bonded quality a great one for FL 3 and 4 cards.



...Troels
 
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I am the DFW distributor and as such I do many demos with the core set cards. FL1 and 2 incantations are fairly easy for new folks to casts.
Last weekend I went on a field trip to visit the game breakers. There are a couple Magi in Oklahoma that have helped the game greatly by finding over powered cards and exploits, they are responsible for most of the errata.

I gave one of them my codex with nothing but core set cards. My codex won. Moreover there was plenty of room to improve it using nothing but the core cards.
Swap out 2 FL 1 cards for 2 other FL 1 cards and the match would have been won 1 round sooner.

On the topic of this thread: acronyms.
ST is a CCG where rarity is normalized through the avak-shar system (once it is up and running). This is a language based game and it would be reasonable to understand an incantation is rare at first. With use more magi learn it thus it becomes common. If you are hit with an incantation enough you will either learn it or figure out a counter.

ST is an ARG, there are aspects of the game which reflect actual (augmented) history and figuring out these mysteries are an area to explore. Spoiler: In the core set the codices have pages which tell the story of the clay golem of Prague. It appears in both ancient German and Hebrew. Why is that important? Why is it important enough to include two references nearly 1000 years apart?
ST is a LARP: The spell casting system of ST fits many LARP rules and ads to realism of being a spell caster.

I do not understand the subtleties of CCG vs. LCG vs. TCG. It is a card game with randomish (hopefully improving) booster packs. You collect cards, you can trade cards, the cards can have errata and evolve.

It is a language: you can learn it and read/write/speak and sing in it. As of know recorded for everyone's enjoyment are the Barney song and the Alphabet song.

One can think of the avak-shar as my coke rewards for Magi. There are 3 ways of earning them. There are the cards in the booster/inscription packs; social, join/create a cabal recorded activities earn participates ranks, compete in tournaments, etc...; Intellect, solve the mystery paths, translate the stories on your codex, etc...

Let's focus on the social parts: I host quarterly tournaments and part of the prizes are avak-shar. Most cards will be available via avak-shar (some will only be available using avak-shar) Why do I say most vs. all... Some very special actually rare cards will only be available as rewards for solving the mystery paths.

LS Bob
shen’esa nes khoishi umbosuto sum’esa khokeish




 
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