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Subject: Legendary Online League Season 3 Planning Thread rss

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Darth Ed
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It's time to get the ball rolling on season 3! At the end of last season, I said to look for season 3 in late April, and this is about as late in April as you can get. I think I've procrastinated enough.

For anyone who is reading this and doesn't know, the Legendary Online League is an unofficial league for competitive solo play of Legendary. It was started by JesseOlivier last year, and I picked up the ball with season 2 since I was the League's statistician for season 1. If you want to read more about how the League operates, check out the first post of the season 2 thread: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1093302/legendary-online-lea...

My Proposal

The season 2 planning thread got bogged down last autumn, and it dragged on for longer than it should have. I think the basic format of last season was very successful, so I'm hopeful for a much faster turn-around this time. I propose we basically keep the same format as season 2 with just a few minor changes:

(1) Incorporate the content from the Fantastic Four expansion. This should be obvious. For a while now, the plan has been that each new season would incorporate a new Legendary expansion, but we would always trail one expansion behind the most current release in order to give everyone time to acquire and familiarize themselves with each expansion. That might change in the future since no new expansions for Legendary have been officially announced, but that's the plan for the next two seasons (through the Paint the Town Red expansion).

(2) In the case of a loss, instead of entering the number of cards in the Villain Deck at the start of the match plus 5, we can just instruct anyone who loses to enter 99. This was a silly rule left over from season 1 when all the match stats were added up before they were ranked. With the switch to ranking the stats on a per-match basis first, the actual number that people enter doesn't matter as long as everyone who loses enters the same number and it is higher than the worst possible number for someone who wins the match. This should make it easier and less prone to submission mistakes.

So those are the only changes I'd like to see. I would prefer that we not make a lot of changes to either the stats or the ranking formulae. Fewer changes means less work for me, obviously. Overhauling the spreadsheet last season to handle the new ranking scheme took a lot of effort. If we keep things mostly the same, it should be fairly easy for me to clone the spreadsheet from last season and get it ready for season 3.

Do You Have a Proposal?

That said, if you have a great idea for improving the League, by all means, please post your proposal, and, possibly after some discussion and/or tweaking of the proposal, we'll do a poll. If the results of the poll are in favor of the change, we'll adopt it.

Miscellanea

If anyone wants to sponsor prizes for the League, feel free to GeekMail me to discuss that. Otherwise, I'll give out the same GeekGold prizes as last time.

Sorry, still no progress to report on the microbadge for the Legendary Online League. I'm such a slacker. If anyone wants to help with that, let me know.

Start Date

When should season 3 of the League start? I was thinking May 18th, so the deadline for match 1 would be May 25th (coincidentally, the 37th anniversary of the release of Star Wars!), but I'm open to sooner or later. Let's do our first poll:

Poll
When should season 3 of the Legendary Online League start?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
May 12 start. Match 1 results due on May 18.
43.8% 14
May 19 start. Match 1 results due on May 25.
21.9% 7
May 26 start. Match 1 results due on June 1.
34.4% 11
Voters 32
This poll is now closed.   32 answers
Poll created by DarthEd
Closes: Tue May 6, 2014 6:00 am
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Tomislav Jaklenec
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Hello, this looks great, i would love to join but i will be getting the fantastic 4 and spidey expansion in july/june and i see no deadlines or the option to play multiple rounds at the same time. I just got legendary and dark city after 6months search couse usa dont delivere to my country ( had to go to hungary to get it lol ) and will be geting the smaller expansions via friend.

Anyway this is a good stuff you doing
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Dane Turner
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I would like to propose doing away with the personal pool of heroes. I liked the assigned heroes of last season, but think we should be able to fill from all available heroes. The catch would be that you can only use each hero once (assigned heroes don't count).

It would eliminate the option of choosing a hero like Black Widow and using her the max number of times to boost your score, though inevitably, some heroes would be used less often. This would also put a bit more strategy into choosing synergies, as you would want to make sure that you don't use someone who might work better with a later team or against a later mastermind.
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Eric Edens
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I'd like to participate in this but having this be my first time, don't feel like I would have any good input on rules or rule changes. Looks fun though.
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Matt Trudgen
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If you need/want any help with the spreadsheet, I would be more than happy to help.
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Itai Rosenbaum
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Woo! I was waiting for this since the ending of last season!

I'm in!

I'm in favor of choosing a pool of heroes to start with. It makes the league more strategic, as the limited pool makes knowing when to use each hero a key element.
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Darth Ed
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Danishdonut wrote:
I would like to propose doing away with the personal pool of heroes. I liked the assigned heroes of last season, but think we should be able to fill from all available heroes. The catch would be that you can only use each hero once (assigned heroes don't count).

It would eliminate the option of choosing a hero like Black Widow and using her the max number of times to boost your score, though inevitably, some heroes would be used less often. This would also put a bit more strategy into choosing synergies, as you would want to make sure that you don't use someone who might work better with a later team or against a later mastermind.

It's not a bad idea and would simplify some things. It would probably would open up usage of heroes that aren't typically picked in advance, situational heroes like Spider-Man.

That said, I liked choosing your personal pool of heroes before the season. It adds an element of strategy. It's like knowing the "meta" in Netrunner or other CCG, and you're almost building the deck before the match starts. You have to anticipate certain schemes and/or combinations of heroes in order to choose the best pool of heroes before you ever see the schedule. Also, last season, you could only use any of your heroes twice. Black Widow could only be used twice in the whole season, and using her twice isn't going to automatically give you first place in the League.

But maybe the extra freedom to adapt to the mastermind/scheme/random heroes and overall simplification under your proposal is worth giving up that level of "meta" strategy. Also, there's more variety under your proposal, which is probably a good thing. Let's do a poll!

Poll
Do you think the League should eliminate choosing your personal pool of five heroes before the season starts and instead allow you to choose any hero (but each chosen hero can only be used once for the whole season)? (Danishdonut's proposal.)
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Yes, I'm in favor of being able to choose any hero (but each chosen hero can only be used once for the whole season).
71.4% 15
No, I want to keep the personal pool of five heroes (as in season 2).
28.6% 6
Voters 21
This poll is now closed.   21 answers
Poll created by DarthEd
Closes: Wed May 7, 2014 6:00 am
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Darth Ed
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Krscho wrote:
Hello, this looks great, i would love to join but i will be getting the fantastic 4 and spidey expansion in july/june and i see no deadlines or the option to play multiple rounds at the same time.

The mid-season deadlines are soft and flexible. You can miss the first few weeks of the season and catch up later with no problem, as long as you are diligent enough to the catch up by the end of the season. The deadline for the end of the season is somewhat harder and more rigid. Players can request an extension for the end of the season deadline, but anything more than a few days will likely be frowned upon.

If we start the season on May 12th (current vote leader), then the end-of-season deadline will be July 13th. If you don't think you will have a problem playing two matches per week, then I think you could still participate as long as you can get the Fantastic Four expansion by mid-June.

Krscho wrote:
I just got legendary and dark city after 6months search couse usa dont delivere to my country ( had to go to hungary to get it lol ) and will be geting the smaller expansions via friend.

Have you tried miniaturemarket.com? It looks like they ship internationally, including to Croatia. Shipping will probably cost more than the item, but I think it is possible.
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/customer-service#answer1
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/ude81582.html
Good luck!
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Elias Gannage
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Agent Brainstorm reporting for duty!
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Brian Koehler
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Really enjoyed Season 2, looking forward to the next one. I think the hero idea is interesting but I'll play in Season 3 either way.
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Mark Dennison
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This time round, I have nothing to add. Just looking forward to it to start now.
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Tomislav Jaklenec
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Quote:
If we start the season on May 12th (current vote leader), then the end-of-season deadline will be July 13th. If you don't think you will have a problem playing two matches per week, then I think you could still participate as long as you can get the Fantastic Four expansion by mid-June.


I dont tihink i will be able to do evrything in time then, but i am looking forward to joining in season 4 and the seasons after that. That said i could help with logistics stuff and others if help should be needet at any time.
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Wes Rathbun
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How would I go about signing up for season 3?
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Aaron Levine
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I have the same question... I want in again since I just bought Fantastic 4 just to play in the League.
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Darth Ed
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Rathbunw wrote:
How would I go about signing up for season 3?

OK, here's the sign up form:

http://bit.ly/LegendaryOnlineLeagueS3_SignUp

With 71.4% of the vote, the proposal to do away with the personal pool of five heroes has been approved.

May 12th was the most popular choice for the start date of the season by a slim margin, but I think it's probably too soon at this point. What do you think? I still need to talk to Knobbly about randomizing the matches (EDIT: GeekMail sent!), and I'd prefer to allow people a full week to sign up. I think May 18th is more likely, but I'll see what I can do to speed it up.
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Jason Walker
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I forgot to subscribe to this thread when you put it up, then I forgot to come back until today There was one oddity from last season that I wanted to mention.

In the last week (or next to last), I finished with a pretty decent score for the scenario. When I looked at the spreadsheet to see how I was doing in the rankings for that week, I noticed someone ahead of me, but with a slightly lower score. It turns out, he had finished a few turns sooner than I did, so his turn count ranking was higher than mine. And even though my total score ranking was higher than his, when the rankings were combined and the final score was calculated, it was enough to push him higher in the final ranking for that week.

What I was wondering was if that was intentional in the ranking formula? It's interesting because then playing "one more turn" to nab a few extra points may not be worth it, but you really have no way to know.
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Jacovis
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TravelSized wrote:
I forgot to subscribe to this thread when you put it up, then I forgot to come back until today There was one oddity from last season that I wanted to mention.

In the last week (or next to last), I finished with a pretty decent score for the scenario. When I looked at the spreadsheet to see how I was doing in the rankings for that week, I noticed someone ahead of me, but with a slightly lower score. It turns out, he had finished a few turns sooner than I did, so his turn count ranking was higher than mine. And even though my total score ranking was higher than his, when the rankings were combined and the final score was calculated, it was enough to push him higher in the final ranking for that week.

What I was wondering was if that was intentional in the ranking formula? It's interesting because then playing "one more turn" to nab a few extra points may not be worth it, but you really have no way to know.


I played all my games trying to end as early as possible, and that did me No good, so yeah I'm a bit confused about your incident as well. I guess the thing is it is very difficult to guess the balance between pushing one more turn and going for points, but also those who wait until later in the week to play their game can look at other scores and use that to determine how they play, not that I think anyone would do that but still.

I just play for fun anyway, so I don't care all that much, but having played in all kinds of tournament formats for different games I still don't fully understand this one
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Darth Ed
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TravelSized wrote:
What I was wondering was if that was intentional in the ranking formula? It's interesting because then playing "one more turn" to nab a few extra points may not be worth it, but you really have no way to know.

The rankings for individual scoring criteria for each match are added together with equal weighting. However, there's the Total Score ranking and there's the Total VPs ranking, and since one's total VPs is included in one's total score, that essentially increases the weighting of total VPs, which seems like a good and fair thing to me. Anyway, you really need to look at all of the rankings and compare. But, let's say this person finished the game in 12 turns and you took 14, but 5 other players finished in 13 turns. Your ranking for turn count could be like 6 behind this other player. But if your total score was only 2 point higher than theirs, then they might only be 1 behind you in the Total Score ranking. Add them together and the net result is 5 points ahead of you in the combined (summed) rankings. I'm simplifying things, but I hope you see how that might happen. It's not just you and the other player, but the results of all the other players which affect the rankings.
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Jason Walker
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Yeah, I understood how it was happening, I just wasn't sure if you actaully wanted it to happen. I missed the fact that the score was counting twice, so that should offset it enough that it's a pretty rare occurance.

If you finish consistantly fast, your score will (probably) be consistantly lower than everyone else and it won't really push you ahead. Hence, Jacovis.
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Darth Ed
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TravelSized wrote:
Yeah, I understood how it was happening, I just wasn't sure if you actaully wanted it to happen. I missed the fact that the score was counting twice, so that should offset it enough that it's a pretty rare occurance.

Yes, I feel that, if two players have nearly the same score and total VPs, the player with the lower turn count should be rewarded with the higher overall ranking. Without knowing the specifics of the scores involved with your situation, it sounds correct to me.
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Cornelius Minor
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I'm so excited to get started! Thanks so much you all!
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John Sulyok
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So I'm guessing it'll start on the 18th?
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Darth Ed
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TMLTurby wrote:
So I'm guessing it'll start on the 18th?

Yes. I'll post the main thread later today and then there will be one more week for sign-ups. I've been in contact with Knobbly over the weekend, and the matches have been randomized for the season.
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Delton P.
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Wow, I just ordered this game, and saw this. As a newb, would love to get in, but know that my record would be 0-9. Will look forward to playing next year.
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John Drach
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msoul01 wrote:
Wow, I just ordered this game, and saw this. As a newb, would love to get in, but know that my record would be 0-9. Will look forward to playing next year.


I'll keep you company at the bottom

This will be my first season and I've only done about 5 solo plays so far since getting the game. I think it will be a fun challenge though.
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