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Subject: Cthulhu + base? rss

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Josh Koehn
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Does TOCE (The Obligatory Cthulhu Expansion) mix well with the base set?
I know this is a controversial set but, would it be unbalanced if you played and not everyone had a TOCE faction?

Any thoughts, or comments are appreciated.
Thanks in advance, -Josh


(This might belong in the TOCE forumsshake, but it still makes sense here)
 
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J
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As one of the resident Cthullu experts (haha) here it is my personal opinion that there are no problems at all with mixing the Cthullu factions with the other sets if balanced vs unbalanced is your concern.

I did a pretty long writup on why the Cthullu sets are not unbalanced and if you have any specific concerns I can address those too.

Oh and if you look at the recent rankings we did the Cthullu sets placed rather average and even trended low (though I will note that 3 of the sets are a little more difficult to use than your average set which probably contributed to that).
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Alfred Spangler
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In interest of full disclosure, opinions are mixed about how well TOCE meshes with the original set. A lot of people get hung up on the fact that Cthulhu factions can pass out madness, and original factions aren't equipped to get rid of them.

But I agree with J. There's actually only two TOCE factions that pass out madness (Cultists and Elder Things) and only ONE that has cards that get rid of Madness (Miskatonic U). Like all of Smash Up, a lot depends on the faction you choose to counter your opponents'. For instance, since Wizards can bank up extra plays, they're actually a great counter to madness, which can be trashed just by playing them. And Wizards are a base faction!
 
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J
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It's actually rather comedic that people insist that you have to do Cthullu vs Cthullu to stand a chance against Cthullu.

Quite possibly the most unfair matchup I've ever seen was Minions of Cthullu vs Elder Things. Minions of Cthullu already take a lot of madnesses with limited means to get rid of them and Elder Things just make that worse. Then there is Elder Things "Power of Madness" (all players discard all their madness cards and shuffles their discard piles into deck) which utterly decimates MoC since MoC has discard manipulation.

In fact MoC vs ET resulted in a record game. MoC ended the game with 17 madnesses at -1 point... We allow MoC to redraw if ET are in nowadays.
 
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Jon Messenger
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mynameistopher wrote:
In interest of full disclosure, opinions are mixed about how well TOCE meshes with the original set. A lot of people get hung up on the fact that Cthulhu factions can pass out madness, and original factions aren't equipped to get rid of them.

But I agree with J. There's actually only two TOCE factions that pass out madness (Cultists and Elder Things) and only ONE that has cards that get rid of Madness (Miskatonic U). Like all of Smash Up, a lot depends on the faction you choose to counter your opponents'. For instance, since Wizards can bank up extra plays, they're actually a great counter to madness, which can be trashed just by playing them. And Wizards are a base faction!

The fact that you can spend your action for a turn to return a madness card to the deck makes it so all factions can get rid of madness cards.
 
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Mike
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The Obligatory Cthulhu Set definitely does not unbalance the game whatsoever for reasons already stated. I've seen non-Madness factions stand toe to toe/beat the Cthulhu factions quite frequently.

I would recommend buying it.
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