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Subject: Hybrid Board Games rss

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Mal Kolovos
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Hi All,

After reading through the thread started by Yemso that made some significant points about Kickstarter campaigns, it's got me thinking about my own.

My team and I will be launching a Kickstarter middle of May, our game is attempting something new in the industry and i would like to invite anyone interested in Hybrid board games to view our incomplete website:

www.dayordoom.com password: inkfish14 (password to be kept within BGG pls)

Do you consider this to be a board game or video game? Would you advertise on BGG or VGG and what would you do differently.

Any feedback is welcome
 
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Matt Brown
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Why are there physical cards and dice being used?
 
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Mal Kolovos
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The dice are used to simulate which crops reap a good harvest at the beginning of a persons turn (similar but not exactly like Settlers) and they are used on other areas of the game, such as during realtime battles the attacker may change the Tide of War by rolling a single die and have the result affect his units in realtime. There are other instances too.

The cards play similarly to most boardgames: the deck is comprised mainly of engineer cards but there are a few special abilities in there too, and more importantly technology breakthroughs that ramp up the main tech meter and awards the drawer a significant boost to their tech meter.

It's a board game first and foremost in my eyes, but i wonder of others think the same. I really don;t like algorithmns simulating luck.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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I think the question Matt is asking is not what is there purpose within the game engine but why not just make them app based like the hundreds of other apps.

It immediately earmarks it to my 'do not bother' list.

I see no reason to split physical and not. It's not doing anything like Golem Arcana where the electronics ref the game but its a minis game.
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Matt Brown
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I understand their use in terms of mechanics. I just don't see why that can't be handled via the application. To me it looks like a digital game with a token attempt to have board game pieces added on.
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Mal Kolovos
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Well our thinking is simply this: first we don't like algorithms dictating our luck, we like to have a hand in what's thrown, as do many gamers. The complete randomness makes for a much more engaging experience, than just waiting for a CPU to suddenly shake things up whenever it feels like it.

The reasons for merging both video and board game boils down to what can be done with virtual units instead of physical. Physical units can only be placed on the game board, where we propose to allow the player to physically engage in fun simple combat mechanics, something similar to the video-game worms for example.

Golem Arcana in my eyes just streamlines the same processes found in a regular boardgame, we want action and skill to be the focus of our combat, with a layer of strategy that is authentic to strategy boardgame style.
 
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Mal Kolovos
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Geosphere wrote:

I see no reason to split physical and not. It's not doing anything like Golem Arcana where the electronics ref the game but its a minis game.


Thanks for your comment

But i wonder how so? The mini-games are triggered at key points in the game, such as when you attempt to knock out a players base, resolved and the result is translated back onto the main game board?

The electronics or shall i say command pad of each player act as their personal bank, so they can quickly see the state of their resources, money, units etc in preparation to play their turn on the main gameboard, so how that doesn't reference? or did i misunderstand?
 
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Man thinks, the river flows.
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    I am loving this concept, and I've been surprised as hell that there aren't more people going after it. The plushness and comfort and "big-screen" benefits of a physical board combined with a shared application that can manage hidden information and the like seems like a vast, uncharted territory of gaming. (I haven't looked into the particulars on this one yet to see the split, so I'm speaking in general terms.)

    It has the added advantage of quashing piracy since there's a physical aspect to the game that can be monetized. This makes it more attractive to publishers. It also has the added advantage of soft upgrades, since the online aspect of it can produce scenarios, even narratives that bend or even outright change rules for short periods of time due to politics or events in the game's universe.

             S.



    Just had a look -- definitely a video game, but with physical components. It's a toe in the water and that's good, but the heart of the game is video. The physical components give you control over piracy and the base could be used for follow-on games, reducing their physical production costs. It's like a mini game console of sorts.

    I'm more interested in the reverse -- where there's a physical board with pieces of consequence, but the card deck comes from the screen and the card deck changes from game to game, day to day, or even evolves over repeated plays the way Risk Legacy does. Development could continue over time, with the game changing its shape based upon changes in the "environment" of play.
 
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Matt Brown
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The difference is Golem Arcana has an actual board and looks like a board game where the tech side of it handles the dirty work. Again, yours looks like a digital game with the physical aspects tacked on.
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Mal Kolovos
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Sagrilarus wrote:
    I am loving this concept, and I've been surprised as hell that there aren't more people going after it. The plushness and comfort and "big-screen" benefits of a physical board combined with a shared application that can manage hidden information and the like seems like a vast, uncharted territory of gaming. (I haven't looked into the particulars on this one yet to see the split, so I'm speaking in general terms.)

Thanks! Being able to plot secret moves against your friends in the same room is very much a strong focus of the project.

   
Sagrilarus wrote:
It has the added advantage of quashing piracy since there's a physical aspect to the game that can be monetized.

Piracy has always been at the forefront of my mind, but that's not the main reason why i decided to make the cards and dice physical. I just honestly cannot stand having a CPU simulate i dice roll. [/q]
I have to say i'm quite surprised by the for and against for dice rolls and card pulls over their simulated counterparts, especially with boardgamers wow



Sagrilarus wrote:
I'm more interested in the reverse -- where there's a physical board with pieces of consequence, but the card deck comes from the screen and the card deck changes from game to game, day to day

well depending on how much we raise, your dream may come true. Without sufficient funding we may have to make the cards virtual, this isn't a bad thing, just it goes against my core prinicples of having a CPU emulate them. We are designing the deck to be 'open' with adaptable symbols so it can be played on future titles too. The deck shown on the site is an idea for a limited edition TecDeck which is obviously made solely for Day or Doom.
 
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Mal Kolovos
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matthean wrote:
The difference is Golem Arcana has an actual board and looks like a board game where the tech side of it handles the dirty work. Again, yours looks like a digital game with the physical aspects tacked on.


Exactly, that is deliberate, because the screen offers a much broader range of possibilities than the board. We kept only the most important game-playing aspects (im my eyes) of the board-game physical, the cards and dice, which puts the deciding factors back into the hands of the players.

 
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Man thinks, the river flows.
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    Presumably there are players that think online dice and cards aren't sufficiently randomized?

             S.


 
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Mal Kolovos
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Yer i'm one of them. It's not the fact that the algoritmn is not sufficiently randomized, it's deeper than that. Its to do with computing logic and i can pretty much guarantee you will never see a computer emulate, say, triple sixes three times in a row, its logic simply won't allow it, but that can, and does happen in reality.

Dice rolls, should be rolled, its that simple. Maybe i'm a minority but hey, for me thats what makes the game unpredictable.
 
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Matt Brown
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Fobic wrote:
you will never see a computer emulate, say, triple sixes three times in a row


The same could be said for humans since the probability is so low.
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Mal Kolovos
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matthean wrote:
Fobic wrote:
you will never see a computer emulate, say, triple sixes three times in a row


The same could be said for humans since the probability is so low.


But it does happen with humans, and that's the difference.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Fobic wrote:
matthean wrote:
Fobic wrote:
you will never see a computer emulate, say, triple sixes three times in a row


The same could be said for humans since the probability is so low.


But it does happen with humans, and that's the difference.


No.

The difference is sample size.

You watch other people roll dice all the time.

You rarely watch an app over someone else's shoulder.

Mainly because Apps haven't existed all that long. During your life you have witnessed hundreds of times more rolls with physical elements.

This would result in viewing more 'special' rolls.
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Mal Kolovos
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We all believe what we want, but a computer following logic, will always be a computer following logic.

I'm happy you feel that playing with virtual dice and cards is as fulfilling. I think i may even be envious.

And btw, i had an electronic game that simulated dice rolls from the age of 7, so it's not entirely accurate what you say. I have yet to see a CPU warrant a triple 6 3 times in a row.
 
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Man thinks, the river flows.
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    Triple-sixes three times is a one in 8,000,000.

    I think you're also leaping to the conclusion that those physical cubes are producing equal-prob outcomes, and that's a pretty dodgy assumption depending on design and build quality. I have a buddy that has patented a fairer six-sider, now he's looking at the issues with production.

    I will agree that there's more emotional feedback from throwing the bones though. It feels more visceral, more real. To some extent with the cards as well. So I'm perfectly fine with the concept.

    There was an article on Fortress: Ameritrash about this awhile back. I'll have to dig it up again.

             S.


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Mal Kolovos
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Sagrilarus wrote:

    Triple-sixes three times is a one in 8,000,000.


Wow that is a massive figure. BUT, i did get a triple sixes just before Christmas last year (which is why that combo came to mind) during a game of Risk. I've yet to score it virtually. I'm not saying it's never happened, (if anyone has scored triple 6's 3x in a row using virtual dice, i'd love to hear), just that the chances of it happening are not equal between the two in my opinion.
 
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