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Subject: Shiro + R&D Interface rss

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Lynk Fox
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So if the second sub on Shiro fires, and the Corp does not pay, and the runner had R&D interface out, he'd get a second card right? Shiro says the runner access the top card and rd says whenever you access a card in rd

So, hitting that sub when the Corp is broke, not breaking it, trashing whatever you can in your multi access, then coninuting in through and accessing again at the end of the run...

That Ice just got a tiny bit double edged sword.


Interesting enough, Medium and Makers eye trigger on successful runs so that wouldn't hit here.
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Andrew Keddie
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lynkfox wrote:
So if the second sub on Shiro fires, and the Corp does not pay, and the runner had R&D interface out, he'd get a second card right? Shiro says the runner access the top card and rd says whenever you access a card in rd

So, hitting that sub when the Corp is broke, not breaking it, trashing whatever you can in your multi access, then coninuting in through and accessing again at the end of the run...

That Ice just got a tiny bit double edged sword.


Interesting enough, Medium and Makers eye trigger on successful runs so that wouldn't hit here.


Medium gets a counter on a successful run, the multi-access is still triggered whenever you access (so if it was already charged, you get the benefit from Shiro).
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Lynk Fox
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
lynkfox wrote:
So if the second sub on Shiro fires, and the Corp does not pay, and the runner had R&D interface out, he'd get a second card right? Shiro says the runner access the top card and rd says whenever you access a card in rd

So, hitting that sub when the Corp is broke, not breaking it, trashing whatever you can in your multi access, then coninuting in through and accessing again at the end of the run...

That Ice just got a tiny bit double edged sword.


Interesting enough, Medium and Makers eye trigger on successful runs so that wouldn't hit here.


Medium gets a counter on a successful run, the multi-access is still triggered whenever you access (so if it was already charged, you get the benefit from Shiro).



Ah ha! True true. Interesting and interesting - er
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FirstName LastName
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Yes, this is the same way that Raymond Flint combos with HQ Interface.
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James
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It says it accesses the TOP card of R&D. I don't see this as the same as "accessing a card from R&D". It's not "A" card, its the TOP card. Otherwise it would just say the runner accesses R&D. Which by default would be the top card. So why bother to specify the "top" card if it wasn't the only card they intend the runner to be able to access. Much in the same way advancing a card is not the same thing as placing an advancement token on a card. I'm guessing this is to prevent this very combo from happening. But then again, maybe I'm wrong, maybe they do want the runner to access more cards and hit a couple of snares in a row etc. After all, accessing multiple cards in a Jinteki deck is at your own risk.
 
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Vonderbread wrote:
It says it accesses the TOP card of R&D. I don't see this as the same as "accessing a card from R&D". It's not "A" card, its the TOP card. Otherwise it would just say the runner accesses R&D. Whihc by default would be the top card. So why bother specificy the "top" card if it wasn't the only card they indtend the runner to be able to access. Much in the same way advancing a card is not the same thing as placing an advancment token on a card. I'm guessing this is to prevent this very combo from happening. But then again, maybe I'm wring, maybe they do want the runner to access more cards and hit a couple of snares in a row etc. After all, accessing multiple cards in a Jinteki deck is at your own risk.


If you're accessing the top card, you're accessing cards from R&D, which is exactly what triggers R&D Interface.

If they wanted to prevent multi-access cards from triggering, I think Shiro would need to explicitly disallow it.
 
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Chris Wood
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From RnD interface

Quote:
Whenever you access cards from R&D, access 1 additional card from R&D.


From Medium

Quote:
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.


From Shiro

Quote:
The Runner accesses the top card of R&D unless the Corp pays 1.


So, Siro lets you access the top card of R&D. So WHENEVER you access a card from R&D....
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James
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Yes, but why specify the top card then? Why not just say The runner accesses R&D and call it a day?
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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Vonderbread wrote:
Yes, but why specify the top card then? Why not just say The runner accesses R&D and call it a day?


Because you don't access a server, you access a card.
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Maybe to make it abundantly clear that you can't access an upgrade in R&D's root?
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John Thornby
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Taloncarde wrote:
From RnD interface

Quote:
Whenever you access cards from R&D, access 1 additional card from R&D.


From Medium

Quote:
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.


If you take this literally, then R&D Interface and Medium don't actually work at all because by default you only access a card (singular) as opposed to cards (plural). If you don't access "cards" then the condition isn't met for accessing an additional card.

I expect we'll see a FAQ entry or announcement for Shiro. It will set a precedent so they need to be careful that they make a ruling they're happy with and can consistently enforce. In Game of Thrones (which I know is a different game) searching your deck and searching the top X cards of your deck are treated differently. Semantically, there are arguments either way. I don't think it's a particularly bad interaction that needs to be kept in check, it's just a decision they need to make about wording.
 
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Chris Wood
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Wait, so if Medium and RND interface only every fire if you access more than 1 card, then if I never install an upgrade in my RND I don't have to worry about them. Wheew, those cards have been defanged. Thanks!devil

Seriously, it's the risk you take with Shiro. But if the runner has out Mediums/RND interfaces... why are you rezzing Shiro.
 
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Palpster
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So the corp will probably pay to prevent it and perhaps trash the ice on his next turn....lot of wasted creds, but at least could potentially save a lot...be worried when he doesnt pay though, he might have seen a snare and fetal
 
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Lynk Fox
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Right? You precoged the turn before. They run, you throw this up. You dont pay. They access 3 cards. Top card is a Snare, then a Fetal. they score and take five damage. They continue (that would be the STUPID move but) and they access a shock which was 4 cards down. Ahahaha. That be hillarious


Shiro then inazuma? They are forced to access? ( i still think that Inazuma forces the access if its the last ice in the server but might be wrong on that one)
 
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Chris Wood
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Lynk, yes, inazuma forces access if it's the last ice, that was answered by Lukas in another thread.
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