Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: What runner decks beat FA consistently? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Henry Silver
msg tools
I am fortunate to have a pretty consistent Netrunner group at my work and we've had a great time refining our decks against each other. We've played through all the corp and runner factions, usually changing and updating our decks weekly. However, the latest corp deck that is popular among our small group is FA in both NBN and HB variations and it's proven resistant to our best criminal decks. The NBN variation uses taxing ice and generally runs money light with only operation economy while the HB runs harder ice and uses biotic labor to score from hand. They are similar in that they both ice up centrals and rarely score more than a single agenda from a remote once they get setup.

My Gabe deck usually manages to get 3-4 agenda points from R/D or HQ before they can lock me out but running aggressively means that I exhaust my resources and delay my final setup. With my full rig out, I can break any remote they set up but they're not going to be placing agendas in there and I've never been successful in completely R/D locking them which I imagine will be even harder once Fast Track comes out. This doesn't mean I that my runner deck auto loses against FA but I don't think my winning percentage is >40%. The thing is that, I'm not sure what route to take in changing my deck to do better against FA.

Theoretically, if you wanted to build a deck that did nothing but beat FA, how would you go about it? I see three possible routes

1)Go fast. Tag-me Andy with run events and as much ability to win before the corp can find enough ice or agendas.
2)Go big. Shaper with massive rig that can that R/D lock the corp while applying less pressure early game.
3)Include FA hate like The Source/Chakana. These are pretty bad cards against any other matchups but might be necessary.

What's the standard way to beat FA?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Freeman
United States
Arcata
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
The source is not actually that terrible against other decks because every corp deck is going to have to either flatline you or score 7+ points to win. Slowing down non Fast Advance just means you get to play a little bit slower.

Not saying The Source is the best card ever or anything. But I think a deck that uses it, maybe in Stirling might be tier 2? Hard to say really. I have yet to get my copy of H&P. It won't be in the store until tomorrow.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henry Silver
msg tools
Well I am already running hostage so it probably can't hurt to add a single copy of the source in. Having to pay 3 extra and trashing after an agenda is scored is rough though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedraum
United States
Fresno
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played a pretty nasty HB FA deck off & on for just over a year, so I can't speak for NBN. But for me, it's more of a playstyle/tempo thing against HB. A few things that nerf (or at least give me fits) my HB deck.

1. A runner that makes money early & steadily throughout the game, and uses that money to trash my assets (Adonis & SanSan). HB with money is nearly unstoppable. HB without money can't do a damn thing. Also, putting pressure early does not allow me to set up for my end game.

2. Getting into a server as efficiently as possible. I know that often goes without saying, but honestly, early game if you are clicking through Eli 1.0 to see 1 card you are doing exactly what I want you to do.

3. Deep R&D digs (Medium, R&D Interface, combo'ed with Maker's Eye). But honestly, this hurts all Corp decks.

4. Imp. One card that ruins my day. If a Runner installs an Imp but does not use it, I will more then likely purge next turn. Imping my SanSan's or Biotic Labors forces me to change my gameplan completely. I hate seeing this card.

Honestly, Criminals (and Gabe specifically) are my hardest matchup. Another thing to consider is floating tags. I generally avoid doing so, but HB is the best faction to do this against. My only tag punishment is 1X of closed accounts, and I don't see it most games. Account Siphoning me, then using that money to trash my SanSan or asset economy is a great play.

TL;DR It's more of a playstyle/tempo thing with HB. Trash their assets & SanSan ASAP, and consider splashing for Imp.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
rob o\'tussin
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When I lose with my nbn fa deck it almost always involves the runner parasiting everything on R&D and getting a lock on it. Also, trashing San San and stealing astroscripts are the 2 things that make me cringe. Ymmv, my experience is a little limited because the deck still wins an awful lot more than any other deck I've played, but when I've lost that has been what's done it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I had success with Katman versus NBNFA. They might win the FA coinflip and get on the AstroTrain too quickly, but that is true versus any runner deck. Otherwise, I usually lock down R&D with combination of Indexing and R&DI.

If you want to stick to Crim, I'm working on tuning a post-H&P Ser Gabe:
http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/f3TYA8fpbu7JCeaXZ/

Indexing with SoT should allow you to snatch the final few agenda points.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Keaten
United States
League City
Texas
flag msg tools
First Click
badge
Praise it.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cardsbydizzle wrote:
4. Imp.

I see this all the time, and I agree with it. It seems everyone agrees. Yet you never see it. Thank God for decent influence cost?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mathew rynich
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Argama Flight Crew
badge
INFERNO BLADE!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
R&D lock. If the runner can get it early enough my NBN FA deck falls apart a bit. If they trash all the Jacksons I have no way to shuffle R&D to regain control. So they have to do that as well. I usually draw up to make sure I have some agendas in hand early so someone that attack my hand consistently also is a pain.

I make sure I have cheap ETR ice with a good distribution of strengths, but yeah a parasite deck usually is the best way to open up those centrals because while diverse the strengths are all relatively low (certainly nothing above 4). Midgame plan is destroyers in various forms, but if you are openning up centrals with parasites then the destroyers are a bit useless.

Shutdown decks are not too effective since the ice is pretty cheap and I can afford to rerez it (even if they are upping the cost). It doesn't take alot of money to run NBN FA once San San is rezzed and/or an Astro is scored so siphoning (while annoying) isn't all that devistating. I have tons of burst econ cards to bounce me back. Also Shipment From San San is a nice card for closing out the game when you are on your back foot.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Kincaid
United States
Toms River
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Nerve Agent is fantastic against FA because of how FA decks work.

HBFA for example , needs set up time. They need to get into money , a FA option , and agendas. Because there are more agendas in a deck than FA options , odds are that HQ is going to contain those before they have a FA option.

If you can get into HQ repeatedly , Nerve Agent MURDERS them.

Other options to deal with FA include :

The Source (as someone else already mentioned)
Chakana : better than you think , yeah it takes 3 runs on RnD to turn this on , but they are forced to purge before they do anything with FA , effectively signaling to you "hey , I've got an agenda AND the means to score it so you better do something about it now !". But admittedly somewhat niche.

Indexing , or any form of RnD multiaccess : If they can't get to the agendas before you do , they can't FA them.

If you were completely teching against FA , then I'd consider a list that looks like this :

Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core Set)

Event (17)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
3x Indexing (Future Proof)
2x Scavenge (Creation and Control)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
3x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)

Hardware (7)
3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)
2x CyberSolutions Mem Chip (Fear and Loathing)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)

Resource (7)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x The Source (Creation and Control) ••••

Icebreaker (5)
3x Atman (Creation and Control)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set) •
1x Inti (Creation and Control)

Program (9)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) ••
1x Nerve Agent (Cyber Exodus) ••
3x Parasite (Core Set) ••••• •
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Fear and Loathing

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.


Parasite is good on FA. It allows you to repeatedly hammer centrals efficiently. Inti deals with wraparound. This deck is 100% anti FA though. It might have some problems against heavier decks (Red Coats for instance).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hany Hebisha
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Vash2002 wrote:
Nerve Agent is fantastic against FA because of how FA decks work.


That + IMP or demo run to get rid of any combo pieces (Biotic / Scorched / archived memories)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yi Sheng Siow
msg tools
nothing beats FA consistently!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Kincaid
United States
Toms River
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
HHebisha wrote:
Vash2002 wrote:
Nerve Agent is fantastic against FA because of how FA decks work.


That + IMP or demo run to get rid of any combo pieces (Biotic / Scorched / archived memories)


It's funny... now that I think about it... Anarch is probably the best suited to beat FA. They've got multiaccess , the ability to trash combo pieces , FAST econ (lib accounts and queens gambit are very fast burst econ cards) , and only have to spend influence on card draw really. So they're ok with the influence cost on The Source.

I think there's something there....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Rubin
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been trying to build a deck that is solely dedicated to Imp and/or demo run on HQ for almost a year. It's easy enough to put those cards into a deck with a few HQ interface or Nerve Agent and build around them. But then when it comes to actually playing, you can only pull it off maybe 40% of the time at best?

The core problem is that you have to dedicate so many cards slots to cards that add more damage to your run. You have to sacrifice cards that make it easier to succeed at running in the first place. The result is that your deck isn't quite efficient enough at getting a lot of successful runs, and any amount of taxation by the corp can shut you out.

I'm currently trying to build this style of deck again using our budde Express Tenma. His extra influence plus blue cards might make it possible. The problem is that people defend HQ heavily against blue cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Well, Planned Attack now makes GETTING your Demo Run easier. I'd say you either want Nerve Agent or HQI to make it worthwhile, depending which faction you're running out of.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I think playing Nerve Agent is worthwhile on its own, I don't think you need a lot of support for it to be great other than, perhaps, memory (Chaos Theory helps).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.