John E
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Played a 2v2 alliance game tonight. The teams were:

Fangs - drafted Piledriver and Kutulu ringer
and Daemons - drafted Pain/Gain, Brick and the Warrior ringer

versus...

Amazons - drafted Hate, Panther, and Spectre
and Ogres - drafted Hardy, Relay Training, and M.A.Z.E.

As the Daemons player I dashed out to an early lead thanks to 6 points from the Warrior (LOVE that ringer) in the first two periods and 12 points from the lead in kills. One highlight of the second period was an amazon bruiser being completely surrounded by 4 walls - that's one way to stop their killzone! Everyone was low or out of cash but only the Ogres took a penalty for fouls at halftime. The Warrior killed M.A.Z.E. The Amazons got some good scoring mound points and some extra points from Hate. Fangs had piledriver but were just around 5-6 after halftime. Kutulu had the ball and was streaking towards the major scoring mound but the period ended before he could score it. Ogres did a sneaking 'hail mary' airdrop of a runner onto his major scoring mound right at the end of the period.

In the third period Kutulu made a major push for the ball only to retreat back from Panther. Panther continued her pursuit and deal a mighty blow killing Kutulu. She then received a boot to the head and a wounded daemon came to stand in her square so they would both be benched. Nice cheap way to get rid of a ringer! Ogres scored on two scoring mounds, amazons on two. Daemons were still way in the lead but Fangs were staring to fall behind.

In the fourth period there was an enormous dogpile on the center with the ball. At one point there were 3 knocked out players in that square. An Ogre bruiser came away with the ball then passed it two squares (over another ogre) to an amazon who was standing on a warpscore point. A wounded daemon runner dashed over and managed to win a tiebreaker to steal the ball from her only to have it stolen back the next turn. Because the daemons didn't really need to score I occupied both the Ogres and Amazons major scoring mounds to prevent another Hail Mary airdrop on the last turn.

As the horn sounded to end the fourth period the Ogres and Fang were the two teams with the lowest totals in their alliance. Fang runners were able to occupy two minor and one major scoring mound and the Ogres scored two minor zones. The Ogres were still slightly ahead but then when the fouls were tallied they fell behind again. Victory went to the Fang/Daemon alliance!

So, thoughts and questions about the alliance game.
- It took a little over two hours. Not terribly long but I still felt like I wanted the game to move faster. There are just so many more variables in an alliance game that it can draw out the turns sometimes.

- Coordinating with a team member lent a more strategic feel than the chaotic 4 player free-for-all game. So I guess if you have 4 players you need to decide what kind of game you want to have. For a crazy 'take-that! No, you take-that!' game go with free for all. And for a more strategic experience go with 2v2.

- The final scoring in a 2v2 game involves comparing the lower of the two scores in each alliance. So it doesn't matter how well I do if my teammate isn't scoring any points we can easily lose. By the same token one team can't play selflessly and just take a supporting role when their teammate is in a strong position - they have to make sure they get their points too or they are falling behind. We had situations where an alliance member moved to a less-advantageous position so that their teammate could score. I'm not sure if I like that scoring structure. It kind of feels like the final score should just be the total of both teams individual scores. I might try it that way if we do 2v2 again.

- Boot to the Head feels like a way-too-easy way to remove an enemy ringer from the game. The tradeoff is that you lose a figure too, as well as incurring another cheat card. But it still feels cheap when it's your ringer getting Benched. This effect is amplified in the 2v2 game moreso than free for all where removing one ringer effectively helps two other opponents so you might not use it for that.

- There isn't a whole lot you can do to help your teammate outside of tackling or killing an enemy figure that is in his way. If the minor scoring mound from Warpscore could be scored by your teammate that would help. If my ally had a bad hand what if I could play Huddle on him instead of me? I found myself wishing there were more ways for us to help each other out.


Now the questions portion. These were the questions that came up during our game.

- Relay training. Can I throw the ball through an occupied square? It doesn't say you can't so we assumed he was just throwing it over that guys head to his teammate.

- Moving through Amazon's killzone when starting your turn within it (Nick raised this in his BGB review also). If I start my turn already in the Amazons killzone, according to the letter of the rules I can freely move around that figure without a reaction since I am not entering that killzone - I am already in it. It feels unfair to the amazons since they are the only team with a contiguous killzone, but at the same time if the rule meant 'enters any square within a figure's killzone' it would have said that. Our ruling was that just didn't make any sense and let the amazon react.

- Hail Mary. It is kind of irritating that you have to always keep one figure on the major scoring mound behind your line of scrimmage to prevent an opponent from air-dropping a figure right on it on the final turn of the period. But again, if hail mary had meant 'place a figure of your choice on an unoccupied non-scoring space' it would have said so. I just feel like it unnecessarily ties up a figure doing nothing.

- Kutulu's power. Does a player have to burn one live energy card for each figure in Kutulu's killzone? Or is burning one live energy card enough to save all players if a team has 2 or more figures in Kutulu's killzone?

- Blowout rule in alliance games. Towards the end of the fourth period I realized that both the Ogres player and the Fangs player (my teammate) should have been eliminated much earlier by the blowout rule. It seems crazy that I would actually have to pass up scoring opportunities to avoid eliminating my teammate from the game but that seems to be the case. We were so close to the end of the game at that point that we just played on. I guess the rule would still apply and one strategy could be to just force-feed all scoring to one player on a team so that their team wins by blowout even though it eliminates his teammate. Just felt weird I guess.

So that's about it; a very long-winded and rambling brain dump of thoughts from the game we just finished. I'm not sure if the other players enjoyed it very much; they seemed lukewarm. In the future I think we might stick to the every-man-for-himself chaos of free for all. My sense is that while 2v2 ramped up the strategy factor it somehow lessened the madcap fast and fun quality that we had liked so much in Kaosball.

Plus none of the Ringer minis I painted got drawn for the draft - what a ripoff!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex
Germany
Hamburg
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
From what I've read about the 3- or 4-player sessions of Kaosball it seems a lot like the game was designed with 2-player matches in mind. The rules for matches with more players do not sound like they have been tested thoroughly and feel like they were just added as an afterthought to cater to groups that do not usually play 2-player games.

As a European backer I did not get my copy yet, so I can't really tell, but is there any actual appeal in playing with more than 2 players?

And if there were three or four players around would you choose to play Kaosball instead of some other game and risk that the players do not really enjoy it and might not want to try it as a 2-player game later?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason McConnell
United States
Sweeny
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice overview, seemed like a very eventful and fun match. I am a bit hesitant to try a 4 player game myself but we might try one this weekend now. I'll try to answer the questions as best to my knowledge.


Morph Mode wrote:

- Relay training. Can I throw the ball through an occupied square? It doesn't say you can't so we assumed he was just throwing it over that guys head to his teammate.

I Doubt it since every other action that increases the range of an ability (for example the Cowboys 2 range attack) clearly defines that walls and figures block the action. Not much space on those little magnets.

Morph Mode wrote:

- Moving through Amazon's killzone when starting your turn within it (Nick raised this in his BGB review also). If I start my turn already in the Amazons killzone, according to the letter of the rules I can freely move around that figure without a reaction since I am not entering that killzone - I am already in it. It feels unfair to the amazons since they are the only team with a contiguous killzone, but at the same time if the rule meant 'enters any square within a figure's killzone' it would have said that. Our ruling was that just didn't make any sense and let the amazon react.

That is an interesting perspective, I admit I didn't really understand what Nick was talking about. I assumed each individual Square Around a figure counted as a different Killzone. Since each figure can only suffer one reactive action per turn, it made more since to me. I believe it works this way in Blood Bowl to.

Morph Mode wrote:

- Hail Mary. It is kind of irritating that you have to always keep one figure on the major scoring mound behind your line of scrimmage to prevent an opponent from air-dropping a figure right on it on the final turn of the period. But again, if hail mary had meant 'place a figure of your choice on an unoccupied non-scoring space' it would have said so. I just feel like it unnecessarily ties up a figure doing nothing.

Well there are only so many in the deck and you can only use it if you had figures knocked off the board in the same period, so I guess it balances out a little. Much more of a problem in a 4 player game than a 2 player I imagine.

Morph Mode wrote:

- Kutulu's power. Does a player have to burn one live energy card for each figure in Kutulu's killzone? Or is burning one live energy card enough to save all players if a team has 2 or more figures in Kutulu's killzone?

Ohhh that's a good one. The wording definitely implies to burn one card for each figure.

Morph Mode wrote:

- Blowout rule in alliance games. Towards the end of the fourth period I realized that both the Ogres player and the Fangs player (my teammate) should have been eliminated much earlier by the blowout rule. It seems crazy that I would actually have to pass up scoring opportunities to avoid eliminating my teammate from the game but that seems to be the case. We were so close to the end of the game at that point that we just played on. I guess the rule would still apply and one strategy could be to just force-feed all scoring to one player on a team so that their team wins by blowout even though it eliminates his teammate. Just felt weird I guess.

It is another strategy. The wording in the rulebook barely implies that a Blowout victory can happen in a multiplayer game. I would think you would compare the Highest opponent to the lowest ally when checking for the blowout condition, but the rulebook doesn't specify that much. Good question for the FAQ.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Kudzma
United States
Millsboro
Delaware
flag msg tools
designer
People are...
badge
SPOCKED!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wolfie6407 wrote:
Nice overview, seemed like a very eventful and fun match. I am a bit hesitant to try a 4 player game myself but we might try one this weekend now.


I think the key is experience. I've played three 3p and two 4p. In those games the players who had played a few times did well, and the newbies did not. I still think this game is 30 minutes a player, so that's likely enough of a deterrent for some.

I won't say that it's not more chaotic, it is, but it's not really as bad once you've played the base game at least a few times and the multiplayer a few times. It's just a different mindset, that's for sure.

Quote:
Morph Mode wrote:

- Relay training. Can I throw the ball through an occupied square? It doesn't say you can't so we assumed he was just throwing it over that guys head to his teammate.


I Doubt it since every other action that increases the range of an ability (for example the Cowboys 2 range attack) clearly defines that walls and figures block the action. Not much space on those little magnets.


Yeah, that's an occupied space, which would be blocked.

Quote:
Morph Mode wrote:

- Moving through Amazon's killzone when starting your turn within it (Nick raised this in his BGB review also). If I start my turn already in the Amazons killzone, according to the letter of the rules I can freely move around that figure without a reaction since I am not entering that killzone - I am already in it. It feels unfair to the amazons since they are the only team with a contiguous killzone, but at the same time if the rule meant 'enters any square within a figure's killzone' it would have said that. Our ruling was that just didn't make any sense and let the amazon react.


That is an interesting perspective, I admit I didn't really understand what Nick was talking about. I assumed each individual Square Around a figure counted as a different Killzone. Since each figure can only suffer one reactive action per turn, it made more since to me. I believe it works this way in Blood Bowl to.


If the Amazons kill zone went off with every step you made through it that would be way too powerful. Every ability has some sort of drawn back, and this is theirs. Of course, they get that sexy +2 to fights, so even if you were put off by the kill zone draw back, you couldn't be all that upset.

Quote:
Morph Mode wrote:

- Hail Mary. It is kind of irritating that you have to always keep one figure on the major scoring mound behind your line of scrimmage to prevent an opponent from air-dropping a figure right on it on the final turn of the period. But again, if hail mary had meant 'place a figure of your choice on an unoccupied non-scoring space' it would have said so. I just feel like it unnecessarily ties up a figure doing nothing.


Well there are only so many in the deck and you can only use it if you had figures knocked off the board in the same period, so I guess it balances out a little. Much more of a problem in a 4 player game than a 2 player I imagine.


I've found that those I play with really don't like giving up figures for any reason. I use Btth + HM all the time, so it's not like they do not see the benefit, they just choose a different approach. They'd rather save that HM for when they lose a figure to a kill rather than give others the chance to use HM as well.

Same goes for the major scoring mounds. Sitting a figure on it is almost like having a 4 people team to start. I'd rather be reactive against someone taking it. Sure, they could HM late and it couldn't be prevented, but I'll take my chances.

Quote:
Morph Mode wrote:

- Kutulu's power. Does a player have to burn one live energy card for each figure in Kutulu's killzone? Or is burning one live energy card enough to save all players if a team has 2 or more figures in Kutulu's killzone?


Ohhh that's a good one. The wording definitely implies to burn one card for each figure.


I have to wonder if it is just poorly worded. Of course I've rarely seen him live or stand long enough to see the ability go off. (and 4 of our games have had him)

Quote:
Morph Mode wrote:

- Blowout rule in alliance games. Towards the end of the fourth period I realized that both the Ogres player and the Fangs player (my teammate) should have been eliminated much earlier by the blowout rule. It seems crazy that I would actually have to pass up scoring opportunities to avoid eliminating my teammate from the game but that seems to be the case. We were so close to the end of the game at that point that we just played on. I guess the rule would still apply and one strategy could be to just force-feed all scoring to one player on a team so that their team wins by blowout even though it eliminates his teammate. Just felt weird I guess.


It is another strategy. The wording in the rulebook barely implies that a Blowout victory can happen in a multiplayer game. I would think you would compare the Highest opponent to the lowest ally when checking for the blowout condition, but the rulebook doesn't specify that much. Good question for the FAQ.
[/q]

I would guess that the lower score of the team has to be 20+ over the lower score of the other team. It wouldn't make sense for it to affect your own team. I'll be curious to see how this one is answered.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thiago Aranha
Brazil
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Morph Mode wrote:

- Relay training. Can I throw the ball through an occupied square? It doesn't say you can't so we assumed he was just throwing it over that guys head to his teammate.

Yes, in fact, you can.


Morph Mode wrote:

- Moving through Amazon's killzone when starting your turn within it (Nick raised this in his BGB review also). If I start my turn already in the Amazons killzone, according to the letter of the rules I can freely move around that figure without a reaction since I am not entering that killzone - I am already in it. It feels unfair to the amazons since they are the only team with a contiguous killzone, but at the same time if the rule meant 'enters any square within a figure's killzone' it would have said that. Our ruling was that just didn't make any sense and let the amazon react.

Whenever you enter a square that's within a figure's killzone, you're entering their killzone, so they have a chance to react.


Morph Mode wrote:

- Kutulu's power. Does a player have to burn one live energy card for each figure in Kutulu's killzone? Or is burning one live energy card enough to save all players if a team has 2 or more figures in Kutulu's killzone?

If the owner burns a live energy card, each of his figures are safe.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Kudzma
United States
Millsboro
Delaware
flag msg tools
designer
People are...
badge
SPOCKED!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Loophole Master wrote:
Morph Mode wrote:

- Relay training. Can I throw the ball through an occupied square? It doesn't say you can't so we assumed he was just throwing it over that guys head to his teammate.

Yes, in fact, you can.


Morph Mode wrote:

- Moving through Amazon's killzone when starting your turn within it (Nick raised this in his BGB review also). If I start my turn already in the Amazons killzone, according to the letter of the rules I can freely move around that figure without a reaction since I am not entering that killzone - I am already in it. It feels unfair to the amazons since they are the only team with a contiguous killzone, but at the same time if the rule meant 'enters any square within a figure's killzone' it would have said that. Our ruling was that just didn't make any sense and let the amazon react.

Whenever you enter a square that's within a figure's killzone, you're entering their killzone, so they have a chance to react.


Morph Mode wrote:

- Kutulu's power. Does a player have to burn one live energy card for each figure in Kutulu's killzone? Or is burning one live energy card enough to save all players if a team has 2 or more figures in Kutulu's killzone?

If the owner burns a live energy card, each of his figures are safe.


The first two are somewhat surprising, yet indeed the Amazons are even more awesome, and it's interesting that you can pass the ball in that manner, but I welcome it.

Now, on Kutulu's ability: That card is definitely poorly worded
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Turner
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Morph Mode wrote:
- Hail Mary. It is kind of irritating that you have to always keep one figure on the major scoring mound behind your line of scrimmage to prevent an opponent from air-dropping a figure right on it on the final turn of the period. But again, if hail mary had meant 'place a figure of your choice on an unoccupied non-scoring space' it would have said so. I just feel like it unnecessarily ties up a figure doing nothing.


Doesn't Hail Mary Play specifically mention "midfield" in the text? Meaning that you have to place the figure somewhere in the square inside all the lines of scrimmage? Sure, you could drop a ringer in the midfield and still sprint him out there, but there's a better chance someone'll be in position to stop you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Kudzma
United States
Millsboro
Delaware
flag msg tools
designer
People are...
badge
SPOCKED!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Silopolis wrote:
Morph Mode wrote:
- Hail Mary. It is kind of irritating that you have to always keep one figure on the major scoring mound behind your line of scrimmage to prevent an opponent from air-dropping a figure right on it on the final turn of the period. But again, if hail mary had meant 'place a figure of your choice on an unoccupied non-scoring space' it would have said so. I just feel like it unnecessarily ties up a figure doing nothing.


Doesn't Hail Mary Play specifically mention "midfield" in the text? Meaning that you have to place the figure somewhere in the square inside all the lines of scrimmage? Sure, you could drop a ringer in the midfield and still sprint him out there, but there's a better chance someone'll be in position to stop you.


It's any unoccupied space.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Turner
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You are correct; I realized that when we played our first 4-player match the other night and forgot which thread I posted the wrong thing in.

I was thinking of Warpscore, I think.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.