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Subject: If Account Siphon and AstroScript didn't exist, what would everyone be complaining about? rss

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Carl Frodge
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Not if they were banned, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if they were never created in the first place, what cards would people be complaining about that they're too overpowered, too good and must be banned?
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Ben Finkel
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Data Scucker, Desperado, Parasite, Emergency Shutdown, SanSan City Grid, and Biotic Labor, I think.
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Vincent Perry
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NBN never wins and no one has a reason to ice HQ
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Bob Bobberson
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Probably scorched earth and mid seasons as well. Siphon does act as a check to a lot of the corps' strategies, and it's important to have a card like it, just with a wee bit less octane.

I think NBN in its current state would be very functional with a nerfed astro (either as a 3/1 or an over advance-able 3/2), but the faction would not have been viable until at least opening moves.
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Patrick Jamet
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Yog.0. Code Gates are useless.

I would prefer to play any of these:

Youp.i
Program: Icebreaker - Decoder
Cost: 5 - 1 MU
1: Break up to 3 code gate subroutines.
Strength: 2
Influence: ••

Yop.la
Program: Icebreaker - Decoder
Cost: 3 - 1 MU
0: Break code gate subroutine.
1: +1 strength
Strength: 0
Influence: ••
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Jardy koning
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Pyjam wrote:
Yog.0. Code Gates are useless.


Yep. this is the only card i have really come close to stating as a problem.

If it worked like morningstar at least i would be much happier with it.
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Zeb
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Pyjam wrote:
Yog.0. Code Gates are useless.

I would prefer to play any of these:

Youp.i
Program: Icebreaker - Decoder
Cost: 5 - 1 MU
1: Break up to 3 code gate subroutines.
Strength: 2
Influence: ••

Yop.la
Program: Icebreaker - Decoder
Cost: 3 - 1 MU
0: Break code gate subroutine.
1: +1 strength
Strength: 0
Influence: ••


That second one is even worse than yog.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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I believe people would complain that there's no card to drain corp's money at your own risk and that NBN really needs something to speed up their agenda scoring.

Oh, wait.
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Mark Campo
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yog needs a 1 credit brake cost!

hate yog with a passion!

though I hope H&P high str Jinteki ice we see less of mimic and yog in the future


the powershut down trash my deck.. trick



i'm Ok with account siphon btw..seems fine to me,
 
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R. Fetterkey
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Remember when Noise was broken, Cerebral Imaging was useless, and Elizabeth Mills was going to be in every deck to counter Personal Workshop?

This too shall pass.
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Patrick Jamet
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Zebadiah wrote:
That second one is even worse than yog.

Why do you think that ?
 
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Raf Cordero
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Pyjam wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
That second one is even worse than yog.

Why do you think that ?


A Yog that can pump itself is more dangerous than a yog that requires a different card to interact with certain ICE.
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Richard Linnell
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captainraffi wrote:
Pyjam wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
That second one is even worse than yog.

Why do you think that ?


A Yog that can pump itself is more dangerous than a yog that requires a different card to interact with certain ICE.


Except that the starting strength of 0 means that it will at least cost the runner SOMETHING to break most codegates. Yes, Yog requires datasucker (or similar) types of support, but those types of support are generally pretty strong on thier own, and are not really an "increased cost" of playing Yog.
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Patrick Jamet
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captainraffi wrote:
A Yog that can pump itself is more dangerous than a yog that requires a different card to interact with certain ICE.

At least, it requires 4 credits instead of 1 Sucker token to reach level 4.

Edit: Shinobi'd ninja
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Vincent Perry
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captainraffi wrote:
Pyjam wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
That second one is even worse than yog.

Why do you think that ?


A Yog that can pump itself is more dangerous than a yog that requires a different card to interact with certain ICE.


Agreed. Nothing better than knocking out a datasucker with power shutdown and making yog and mimic worthless.
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Ben Finkel
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I earnestly believe that Yog.0 is on the way out as the de facto decoder. Inazuma wrecks face, and relying on having enough Datasuckers to deal with them is difficult against a well-built deck with wise ICE placement and purge timing.
 
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Patrick Jamet
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theodorelogan wrote:
Agreed. Nothing better than knocking out a datasucker with power shutdown and making yog and mimic worthless.

Shall we ban Clone Chip too ?
 
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Raf Cordero
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solidhavok wrote:
captainraffi wrote:
Pyjam wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
That second one is even worse than yog.

Why do you think that ?


A Yog that can pump itself is more dangerous than a yog that requires a different card to interact with certain ICE.


Except that the starting strength of 0 means that it will at least cost the runner SOMETHING to break most codegates. Yes, Yog requires datasucker (or similar) types of support, but those types of support are generally pretty strong on thier own, and are not really an "increased cost" of playing Yog.


Yes, but I'd rather have to figure out how to get credits than figure out how to get sucker counters. It's theoretically possible to completely lock a server down with Tollbooth if the runner only has Yog and you neutralize the support. The runner can always click for credits though.
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Patrick Jamet
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So, you think ZU.13 is even more dangerous than Yog ?
 
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Raf Cordero
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Pyjam wrote:
So, you think ZU.13 is even more dangerous than Yog ?


Well, I haven't used Yog in any of my recent Shaper decks. Zu is much easier to get out for early aggression (especially in Kit) than Yog due to the install cost. Also, Torch is great if you can find ways to get it out cheap (again..hooray for Shaper).

Also, Zu isn't free for all the subroutines, so it isn't a perfect comparison.
 
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Vincent Perry
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Pyjam wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
Agreed. Nothing better than knocking out a datasucker with power shutdown and making yog and mimic worthless.

Shall we ban Clone Chip too ?


The point is that yog needs support cards. That is what makes yog balanced. Yes, you can spend 3 influence on datasuckers and 6 on clone chips to make SUPER DUPER sure that yog works. And even then I can wipe counters if I want to make sure it doesn't.

Yog is a good card in the right circumstances but on the other hand can be completely shut down (unlike pumpable breakers.) Yes, cards have strengths and weaknesses. Working as intended.
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Patrick Jamet
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There is only one Code Gate with a strength > 3 that ends the run (not bioroid) and it's Tollboth. But I can imagine that you spend 24 credits to completely deny the access to the central servers.
 
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Ben Finkel
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Pyjam wrote:
There is only one Code Gate with a strength > 3 that ends the run (not bioroid) and it's Tollboth. But I can imagine that you spend 24 credits to completely deny the access to the central servers.


Have you experimented with Inazuma yet? I think you'll find it's very powerful, and significantly cheaper.
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Raf Cordero
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Pyjam wrote:
There is only one Code Gate with a strength > 3 that ends the run (not bioroid) and it's Tollboth. But I can imagine that you spend 24 credits to completely deny the access to the central servers.


To be fair, my deck is Bioroid heavy and I can count on them to help lock servers out because I can stack them.

I would also happily pay 24 credits to completely deny access to my centrals. Why wouldn't you?
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Vincent Perry
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Pyjam wrote:
There is only one Code Gate with a strength > 3 that ends the run (not bioroid) and it's Tollboth. But I can imagine that you spend 24 credits to completely deny the access to the central servers.


My ST deck is heavy on bioroids. My Viktors laugh at Yog.

Now, just because yog doesn't work on my deck doesn't make it a good card. It's just an example of a deck that it doesn't work against.

And yes, it's quite usual in my games to have 24 credits of ice rezzed to defend my centrals.
 
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