Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design

Subject: abstract victory conditions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
After reading the first few comments, I think I should clarify what I'm looking for. So here it goes....

I'm looking for inspiration from abstract games that have a victory condition other than "get from point A to point B", or "eliminate the other players piece/pieces".

To clarify...
1) I'm looking for ways to win/score in an abstract game... not abstract ideas of how victory would manifest (though the responses to these were pretty amusing, thanks ).

1) By abstract game, I do not mean card games like poker, parlor games like pool, nor dexterity games like Jenga. You could certainly argue that these are abstract, but I'm talking about your classic style "pieces on a board" abstract game like Chess or Go. Certainly everyone's idea of what makes a game an abstract could be up for debate, but I'm hoping not to dissolve this thread into an off topic discussion about semantics. Hope this gives a more clear idea of what I meant, even if my definition of an abstract may be questionable.

2) Victory points are fine example of a win condition, but begs a little more info. The important info being "what scores the VPs"? And if that is eliminating opposing player pieces or getting from one place to another, then that's not really an applicable example for this question. Manipulating neutral pieces (even if that manipulation is elimination) would be valid. Basically, I'm trying to avoid player elimination with this one.

3) Area control, with examples given by Antistone, is a perfect example of the type of thing I'm looking for. Some of of these examples were also victory point based, which is fine. But the important part being various examples of different ways to score because of areas you are controling. Antistone wasn't the only player with good comments, just thought it was a good example to illustrate what would be helpful.

Thank you all so much for helping fuel my inspiration!


====================================================================
ORIGINAL POST:


I'm looking for inspiration from abstract games that have a victory condition other than "get from point A to point B", or "eliminate the other players piece/pieces".

Secondly, it would be ideal (but not necessary) if the games could be be played with more than 2 players/teams.

If anyone knows of games like this off the tops of their heads, please list them here.

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would think an abstract victory condition would be along the lines of "You win when you find your soul is aligned."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philip Becker
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmb
I think any variation of "Victory Points" is an abstract victory condition. You do whatever stuff that enables victory, and then when the game ends you win because you do more of the victory stuff than anybody else.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Lennert
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tic-Tac-Toe and more modern variants like Quarto are piece-placement games with victory conditions based on the relative arrangements of the pieces.

Dots and Boxes, a game you probably played as a kid, is an abstract territory-control game. (And there's a lot more strategy to it than you probably realize--between players in the know, the game is mostly about controlling whether the number of long chains is odd or even.)

Go is an ancient and famous abstract territory-claiming game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Irving
United States
Salinas
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
toober wrote:
Chess would probably be considered eliminating other pieces.

Chess's victory is effectively eliminating a particular opposing piece and you can't do it by opponent's oversight.

[/q]Most social games(balderdash, farkle) have victory points. [/q]

VP's are NOT a victory condition by themselves, but a way to allow the same condition to tallied multiple times and/or differing victory conditions be included in the game.

The victory condition in Balderdash is guess the real definition for a word and come up with fake definitions that fool the otehr players. Whoever correctly guesses and fools more of them (i.e. more VP's) wins. The victory condition of Farkle is to roll certain scoring combinations (1's, 5's, 3 of a kind, straight, etc.) and end your turn before blowing it. Each different combination is a different victory condition worth varying numbers of VP's.


Quote:
Magic: The Gathering you win by reducing your opponent to 0 health OR making them draw when they have run out of cards in their draw pile.


The Health points are simply VP's by another name, simply counted down instead of up.

Quote:
Poker wins by having the best hand ranking.


This is for a single hand of poker. But even then it is not true, you will also win by being the last player to not fold their hand.

Poker is played in many hands over a long session, the key to success is more often winning (or avoid losing) a large amount on a single hand.

Quote:
Go Fish wins by having the most pairs/book sets.

Tallied effectively by VP's.

Quote:
Billiards is won by being the first player to get all of the proper object balls in the pockets.

Some billiard games, like 8 ball & 9 ball, yes.

In others, no.
- Straight Pool (The Original game) is 1 VP per ball. (When 14 are sunk, rack them up and keep playing to 100 or more VP's)
- Rotation is a game where you score VP's equal to the numerical value of the each ball sunk. (Like 9 ball, the object ball you must hit first is the lowest numbered ball on the table.) High total wins.

Quote:
Jenga wins by not being the person who causes the tower to fall.

Jenga has a losing condition, not a victory condition.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for everyones reply. I think I need to clarify a bit better what I mean though. I did that in the original post.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sturv Tafvherd
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Going along the line of thinking of "area control"

Deadlands: Doomtown
Deadlands: Doomtown Range Wars
Rise of the Proletariat [2013 : 2P-PnP] -- Submitted

Those are games where you need to capture and hold onto areas that grant you control points. You win when you have more control points than any other player's influence points. In that sense, there are no "victory points."

The game gets interesting in multiplayer when the leading player has almost enough control points to win. Everyone tends to protect the player who has the most influence (because he's the only reason the leading player has not yet won). And yet, capturing those areas involves having more influence at that spot than anyone ... so if you allow that high-influence player to keep his influence, he'll easily turn the tables on the lead player.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moosey
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Doesn't sound like an abstract game, but that tug of war between stopping the guy about to win vs the person with the most influence is a really interesting idea that's getting the gears churning. I wonder if helping the person with most influence leads itself towards kingmaker scenarios though.

So yeah. Non abstract games are fine to mention. So hope the above description of an abstract game was clear.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek H
South Africa
Johannesburg
Gauteng
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your basic abstract victory types are typically:

Elimination: remove the opponent's piece or pieces
Race: one, or both players, are trying to get to position X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafl_games is an interesting example of this combined with Elimination)
Alignment: arrange your pieces in certain configuration
Immobilisation: attempt to block the opponent's pieces (so they cannot move)
Area Control: score by occupying more areas; or a specific area.

Of course, a general classification leaves lots of room for variation! The Alignment could be 3D, for example, where your pieces need to create a certain kind of stack. And combining types adds more flavour - "be the first to move a stack of (large, medium, small) pieces onto position X". There is a also a whole of class of games - the Mancala family - that fall under Alignment but are (or were!) fairly unique in their approach.

Hope this gives ideas and/or inspiration!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.