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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: On the fence rss

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Matthew Logan
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Hi folks,

I've been thinking about getting a copy of this one for a while now. I've tried Sentinels of the Multiverse but am really struggling to get into it. It seems too difficult and requires a lot of housekeeping.

All the reviews I've read seem very positive about Marvel Legendary, and I really like the overall presentation, artwork and the board.
My concern is that, from reading a few posts here, that it may be too easy and not have much replay value. Is that the case?

Also, do you think I should start with just the main box, or get the Dark City expansion too?

Thanks!
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Chris
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In the interest of being prudent about cost, I'd say get the main box to see if you even like the game; if you do then Dark City is practically a must-have, as it makes the card pool massively bigger.

There's an absolute ton of replay value, especially with randomized setups and the weekly challenges here on BGG. Difficulty is adjustable up or down as you see fit, as well.
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Geoff Montgomery G
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The two games are completely different and Legendary gives both a more varied and stronger experience.

In Sentinels, you have your entire deck from the start and you find you often end up doing the same 'power' action each turn and the house keeping can get out of hand with a more complex villain.

Legendary is a deck builder, so you build your deck as you play and feel stronger each round as you (hopefully) add better cards to your deck - you will also play your whole hand each round, not just spam one power.

I have both and much prefer Legendary - though do get at least the dark city expansion. It really changes things up and ramps up the difficulty (some of the base game villains are pretty easy)
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Itai Rosenbaum
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Someone calculated the different set-ups available (with all expansions) and that number is over 2 trillion. So I believe your worries about replay value can be put the rest.

I have yet to have two identical games of Legendary. Hell, even games with the exact same set-up can turn out radically different depending on the order cards pop out.

As far as difficulty goes - one of the main criticism for the base set was that it was too easy. It might have a couple more difficult set-ups, but we did end up winning more often than not. Rest assuredly, though, that Dark City addresses that. It ratchets up that difficulty significantly.

If you can afford it - I'd suggest getting the base + DC. Not only will it address the difficulty problem but DC also more than doubles the available heroes, masterminds, etc.
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Matthew Logan
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Brilliant. Thanks guys. You have helped put my worries to rest. I really wanted to like Sentinels but, even after several attempted plays, it just wasn't happening.
Legendary does look much cleaner with less rules housekeeping.
Replayability sounds great too.
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Matthew Logan
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I ordered a copy of Legendary and a copy of Dark City today. Thanks for helping with my decision! Looking forward to playing, though may have to hold a card-sleeving party!
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Chris Gallo
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Awesome. You made a wise decision. Also check out the two smaller expansions after you get some plays in because they add more awesomeness to the game. Yeah the only thing the two games have in common is the fact that they are cooperative in nature (even though this is a semi-coop) but Sentinels is a lot different. Legendary is just an awesome game and I love the fact that you can solo this game as well. Happy gaming!
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Matthew Logan
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Fenderbass124 wrote:
Awesome. You made a wise decision. Also check out the two smaller expansions after you get some plays in because they add more awesomeness to the game. Yeah the only thing the two games have in common is the fact that they are cooperative in nature (even though this is a semi-coop) but Sentinels is a lot different. Legendary is just an awesome game and I love the fact that you can solo this game as well. Happy gaming!


Cheers Chris!! thumbsup
 
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Cornelius Minor
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I hope that you enjoy your purchase! There are so many amazing people on this board -- their ideas and support will only add to your enjoyment!
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J Fields
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Fenderbass124 wrote:
Awesome. You made a wise decision. Also check out the two smaller expansions after you get some plays in because they add more awesomeness to the game. Yeah the only thing the two games have in common is the fact that they are cooperative in nature (even though this is a semi-coop) but Sentinels is a lot different. Legendary is just an awesome game and I love the fact that you can solo this game as well. Happy gaming!


I totally agree... I bought this game with the LDC and LFF expansions about 3 months ago. While I play mostly solo (depending on kids and wife's moods) I haven't had a "bad" experience yet! ENJOY!
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Dion Baxter
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Well I think you have all convinced me to buy this.
I need to bring something back from the UK Games Expo.
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Matthew Logan
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Akoben wrote:
I hope that you enjoy your purchase! There are so many amazing people on this board -- their ideas and support will only add to your enjoyment!


Thanks Cornelius! I agree. I've hopped over from RPGG because I've started to play the occasional board/card game. Both are great communities.
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Matthew Logan
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PinkyMan wrote:
Well I think you have all convinced me to buy this.
I need to bring something back from the UK Games Expo.


It would be wrong not to bring something back! Man, I'd quite like to visit the expo, though I would likely end up bankrupting myself.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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I saw a couple of video reviews/playthrus of Sentinels, and it didn't excite me at all. Maybe I would like it if I tried it, but I have little interest in doing so.

Legendary reminds me a lot of Ascension in play. And I wasn't at all enthused by Ascension, either. Yet I do enjoy Legendary. Perhaps it's the more apporoachable theme, or the various "scenarios" that Masterminds and Schemes throw up.

I can't say that I'm a big fan of the large Villain and Hero decks, though, and the biggest issue for me is the setup/teardown time.
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Chris Gallo
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Yeah set up and tear down time can be annoying but for the game and the experience It's definitely worth it. Glad we could all be such a big help with the decision.
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The Shader
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Welcome to the family! Come back and post and let us know your thoughts and/or any questions!
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Matthew Logan
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therealtheshader wrote:
Welcome to the family! Come back and post and let us know your thoughts and/or any questions!


Thanks! I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.
 
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Aaron Edwards
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Pendraig wrote:
I ordered a copy of Legendary and a copy of Dark City today. Thanks for helping with my decision! Looking forward to playing, though may have to hold a card-sleeving party!
Wise choice, bud. The first couple times I played Legendary I was like "Meh, that was pretty easy and a little too casual for my tastes." After a few more plays I started getting hooked. Then I played the expansions, and now it's one of my top 5 favorite games. The expansions take it from a pretty good game to an excellent game. It's definitely not one of the most difficult games out there (I win far more often than I lose), but with this game it really doesn't bother me like it would in other games. And there are very easy ways to amp up the difficulty if you don't find it challenging enough.

Also, I totally agree with you on Sentinels. I wanted very badly to like it, and there are some very very interesting card interactions that can go on in that game. But all of the HP and modifier tracking is just too much. Far too many games have I gotten halfway through and realized "Oh, I forgot [certain modifier] for the last 5 turns, he should have a lot more/fewer hit points" and just quit in frustration. So don't let your frustration with sentinels turn you off of Legendary--the only thing they have in common is the super hero theme.
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Ken Chadwick
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Oph1d1an wrote:
Wise choice, bud. The first couple times I played Legendary I was like "Meh, that was pretty easy and a little too casual for my tastes." After a few more plays I started getting hooked. Then I played the expansions, and now it's one of my top 5 favorite games. The expansions take it from a pretty good game to an excellent game. It's definitely not one of the most difficult games out there (I win far more often than I lose), but with this game it really doesn't bother me like it would in other games. And there are very easy ways to amp up the difficulty if you don't find it challenging enough.

Also, I totally agree with you on Sentinels. I wanted very badly to like it, and there are some very very interesting card interactions that can go on in that game. But all of the HP and modifier tracking is just too much. Far too many games have I gotten halfway through and realized "Oh, I forgot [certain modifier] for the last 5 turns, he should have a lot more/fewer hit points" and just quit in frustration. So don't let your frustration with sentinels turn you off of Legendary--the only thing they have in common is the super hero theme.


Same here. I was hesitant to like Legendary because it bothered me at first that you're not playing as an individual super hero character. But the more I played it, the more I liked it. I think the villans/scheme combos are a lot of fun and make the game very replayable. Plus, it's easy enough to introduce to "non-gamers."

I also had the same response that you did to Sentinels. Too much bookkeeping for me to really enjoy it.
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Darth Ed
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Pendraig wrote:
My concern is that, from reading a few posts here, that it may be too easy [...]. Is that the case?

Matthew, first off, welcome to the Legendary community! I hope you enjoy the game for years to come.

I wanted to address the "too easy" concern. Personally, although I defeat the mastermind most of the time, I find plenty of challenge when it comes to beating the scores of the other players with whom I'm playing or, if playing solo, then just trying to get the highest score possible.

This game is a semi-co-operative game. That's the designer's intent. If you're intending to play it as a fully co-operative game (like Sentinels), then you indeed might find it too easy. It wasn't designed to be a full co-op, but lots of people prefer to play it that way. If you do play it as a full co-op, it will be easier than if you played it semi-co-operatively as intended.

How easy the game is also depends on how experienced you are with deck-building games in general.
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Matthew Logan
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DarthEd wrote:
Pendraig wrote:
My concern is that, from reading a few posts here, that it may be too easy [...]. Is that the case?

Matthew, first off, welcome to the Legendary community! I hope you enjoy the game for years to come.

I wanted to address the "too easy" concern. Personally, although I defeat the mastermind most of the time, I find plenty of challenge when it comes to beating the scores of the other players with whom I'm playing or, if playing solo, then just trying to get the highest score possible.

This game is a semi-co-operative game. That's the designer's intent. If you're intending to play it as a fully co-operative game (like Sentinels), then you indeed might find it too easy. It wasn't designed to be a full co-op, but lots of people prefer to play it that way. If you do play it as a full co-op, it will be easier than if you played it semi-co-operatively as intended.

How easy the game is also depends on how experienced you are with deck-building games in general.


Thanks Darth Ed!

I like that the game is semi-cooperative rather than fully coop, it should add a fun element of competition while trying to beat the villain.
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Matthew Logan
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It arrived in the mail yesterday! Wow, that's a lot of cards. Going to get a first game in tonight. Looking forward to it!!
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chris leko
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Pendraig wrote:
It arrived in the mail yesterday! Wow, that's a lot of cards. Going to get a first game in tonight. Looking forward to it!!


I look forward to your thoughts. I recently purchased this and Dark City, and at first I felt it'd be too easy (from what I read, and from the initial scenario in the rulebook), but after I started playing the Weekly Challenges, I was pleasantly surprised. I win more often than I lose, but my scores are often really bad, so I know I could get better at the game.

I think this game has helped me figure out what I disliked about deckbuilding games: there was no goal. Just collect cards that score more points. Here, you have to beat the Villain, and there are nice twists thrown in (see what I did there?). I mean, I like Euro games that are essentially "high score" games (Agricola and its ilk), and I don't know why I didn't like it as a deckbuilding type game. Perhaps it's the coupling of the theme, and some interesting combos (plus the vast variability in the game based on the setup), but I'm pretty happy with my recent purchase.
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Matthew Logan
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Quote:
I look forward to your thoughts. I recently purchased this and Dark City, and at first I felt it'd be too easy (from what I read, and from the initial scenario in the rulebook), but after I started playing the Weekly Challenges, I was pleasantly surprised. I win more often than I lose, but my scores are often really bad, so I know I could get better at the game.

I think this game has helped me figure out what I disliked about deckbuilding games: there was no goal. Just collect cards that score more points. Here, you have to beat the Villain, and there are nice twists thrown in (see what I did there?). I mean, I like Euro games that are essentially "high score" games (Agricola and its ilk), and I don't know why I didn't like it as a deckbuilding type game. Perhaps it's the coupling of the theme, and some interesting combos (plus the vast variability in the game based on the setup), but I'm pretty happy with my recent purchase.


Hey Chris, thanks for your comments.

Well, my brother and I played our first game of Legendary on Thursday evening and...it was a blast!

We played the scenario outlined in the rulebook vs. the Red Skull, just so we could get the rules down. It was a close game as lots of scheme twists were pulled early on. The Avengers and Spidey all showed up early, battling Hydra soldiers and Venom who had captured a bystander and was lurking in the sewers. Then, as the sentinels appeared, so did Wolvie and Cyclops!
Red Skull hit us with a few master strikes, and wound cards began to bite at our hands.
It was touch and go for our heroes (with 6 scheme twists out!) but, the Skull was eventually brought down by a combined attack from Iron Man and Cyclops with a short, hairy Canadian running assist. Hawkeye and Spidey were content to mop up the rest of the mobs. None escaped the city, although plenty of SHIELD agents were hospitalised!
Final Score: 11-0 to my bro. I was beset by wounds, while he took the opportunity to heal, which made a lot of difference. The scheme twists also took out a load of points.

I am very happy with this game. It plays like a dream, and I really enjoy combo'ing with the cards. The semi-cooperative aspect gives twin goals to play for, and that is amazing; having to think about defeating the Mastermind while grabbing points on the side.
As a roleplayer, my imagination ran wild and I pictured the epic fights. We often narrated parts of the game.
Looks like Sentinels of the Multiverse is going to be shelved I'm afraid. Legendary is the new cape in town!

Thanks all for your recommendations, this game is going to hit the table fairly regularly from now on. For the next one I'm going to try adding in some of the Dark City cards.

Excelsior!!
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Darth Ed
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I'm really glad you had such a great first impression, Matthew! It really brought a smile to my face just reading your session report and your enthusiasm was contagious.

Be sure to download Jacovis' wonderful "Unofficial Legendary FAQ and Errata":
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/92138/unofficial-colle...

Speaking of the rules, be sure to read the clarifications in the Dark City rules sheet.

And when you get tired of picking your own setups, try this randomizer:
http://tablemonkey.net/legendary

Have fun! Exclesior!
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