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The War: Europe 1939-1945» Forums » Rules

Subject: "Build-Up Units" question rss

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Rob Williams
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Hi again Ernie,

I need clarification regarding rule 9.6.4 on "Build-Up Units".

My understanding of the rule is that you need 3 units of equal strength to get a built-up unit, as per your examples in 9.6.4.

This makes sense for most of the large army sized units in the game, except for the US 2nd Armour Army (20-8) and the 2nd & 3rd Motorised Armies (12-7). For these units, there are no 3-unit equal strength combination that can build up to make these units.

I'm assuming you need 3 units to create the build-up units, as 9.6.4 states: "Stacking limits apply as if three components are on the map."

My question is what 3 units do you need to make the 20-8 and 12-7 units?

Cheers
Rob



 
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Charles Finch
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i dont have components to look at atm, but these are just 'markes' not really a unit, they represent the 3 you take off, so take off 3 units w/ the appropriate mp (7 or 8) totalling combat strength of marker, and replace w marker

edit: if multiple combinations exist keep them in a holding area by 'marker'
 
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Rob Williams
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Yep, I understand that. But what 3 units do you use to make a US 20-8 unit or a 12-7 unit? Unless someone can please correct me, there are no three possible combinations that can make these units.
 
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Ernie Copley
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starfax wrote:
Hi again Ernie,

I need clarification regarding rule 9.6.4 on "Build-Up Units".

My understanding of the rule is that you need 3 units of equal strength to get a built-up unit, as per your examples in 9.6.4.

This makes sense for most of the large army sized units in the game, except for the US 2nd Armour Army (20-8) and the 2nd & 3rd Motorised Armies (12-7). For these units, there are no 3-unit equal strength combination that can build up to make these units.

I'm assuming you need 3 units to create the build-up units, as 9.6.4 states: "Stacking limits apply as if three components are on the map."

My question is what 3 units do you need to make the 20-8 and 12-7 units?

Cheers
Rob





Hi Rob - well, the denominations are pretty arbitrary - the idea was to make use of a few "spare" spaces in the counter mix to prvide some convenience vis-a-vis counter density. The build-up units need not be in exchanged for groups of three units. A 20-8 ARM is just a build-up of two 10-8 ARM's; a 12-7 MOT is just a build-up of two 6-7 MOT's. Since you don't actually gain or lose anything re: stacking limits in using the build-up counters, I just thought we'd provide some additional denominations. Hope this helps,

ernie
 
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Ernie Copley
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cfinchjr2 wrote:
i dont have components to look at atm, but these are just 'markes' not really a unit, they represent the 3 you take off, so take off 3 units w/ the appropriate mp (7 or 8) totalling combat strength of marker, and replace w marker

edit: if multiple combinations exist keep them in a holding area by 'marker'


Hi Charles - well, yes, you could keep a holding area, maybe on the force pool card, for units exchanged for build-up units. But you are correct - the build-ups are just markers for their component units - a small step towrds dealing with the "tall stacks" problem,

ernie
 
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Ernie Copley
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starfax wrote:
Yep, I understand that. But what 3 units do you use to make a US 20-8 unit or a 12-7 unit? Unless someone can please correct me, there are no three possible combinations that can make these units.


Hi Rob - as above - you are correct - there is indeed no 3-unit combination to make up the 20-8 and 12-7 build-up units. But that's okay, since one can exchange two 6-7 MOT's for a 12-7 MOT, or two 10-8 ARM's for a 20-8 ARM. The original idea was just providing different denominations for player convenience. Hope this helps,

ernie
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Charles Finch
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can you build the units replaced by markers taking a chance of not having 'change' if losses to the marker?
 
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Ernie Copley
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cfinchjr2 wrote:
can you build the units replaced by markers taking a chance of not having 'change' if losses to the marker?


Hi Charles - if a built-up unit takes a loss (one or more Depletions), you'd have to break it back down into its individual component units again. The units replaced by the markers are set aside (as discussed above) and segregated from the rest of the force pool. They are brought back on if the marker takes any hits. One cannot have both the marker and one or more of its component pieces on the board at the same time. If that was allowed, some clever player out there could use build-up units as a back-door method of increasing one's force pool, which isn't the design intent - ernie
 
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Charles Finch
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is what i thought, just checking - thanks!
 
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Rob Williams
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e_copley wrote:
starfax wrote:
Yep, I understand that. But what 3 units do you use to make a US 20-8 unit or a 12-7 unit? Unless someone can please correct me, there are no three possible combinations that can make these units.


Hi Rob - as above - you are correct - there is indeed no 3-unit combination to make up the 20-8 and 12-7 build-up units. But that's okay, since one can exchange two 6-7 MOT's for a 12-7 MOT, or two 10-8 ARM's for a 20-8 ARM. The original idea was just providing different denominations for player convenience. Hope this helps,

ernie


Hi Ernie. Thanks again for the clarification. So the components can consist of 2 or 3 units; and I'm assuming that the combat values don't have to be equal (e.g. Soviet 10-8 ARM + 8-8 ARM = 18-8 ARM).

Can I suggest that you may want to put in some errata for 9.6.4 saying something like: 3rd sentence should read "Stacking limits apply as if the actual components are on the map".

Cheers
Rob
 
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Ernie Copley
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starfax wrote:
e_copley wrote:
starfax wrote:
Yep, I understand that. But what 3 units do you use to make a US 20-8 unit or a 12-7 unit? Unless someone can please correct me, there are no three possible combinations that can make these units.


Hi Rob - as above - you are correct - there is indeed no 3-unit combination to make up the 20-8 and 12-7 build-up units. But that's okay, since one can exchange two 6-7 MOT's for a 12-7 MOT, or two 10-8 ARM's for a 20-8 ARM. The original idea was just providing different denominations for player convenience. Hope this helps,

ernie


Hi Ernie. Thanks again for the clarification. So the components can consist of 2 or 3 units; and I'm assuming that the combat values don't have to be equal (e.g. Soviet 10-8 ARM + 8-8 ARM = 18-8 ARM).

Can I suggest that you may want to put in some errata for 9.6.4 saying something like: 3rd sentence should read "Stacking limits apply as if the actual components are on the map".

Cheers
Rob


Hi Rob - yes, a Soviet 10-8 and an 8-8 would be exchanged for an 18-8, and yes, stacking limits would apply just as if the original component units were on the map. Re: clarification to 9.6.4 - okay, I'll make a note of it for next time I update the errata sheet.

Regards,

ernie
 
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