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Subject: So now he isn't a racist rss

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Guido Van Horn
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http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/donald-sterling-girlfrien...

 
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Boaty McBoatface
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So he says this all the time, but he is not racist?

By the way this is the man accused of repeated acts of racial discrimination, mmmm yes.
 
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Ken
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So he believes in segregation and has even been found to have systematically discriminated when renting property he owns, plus he says racist things repeatedly, but he isn't a racist because he was raised that way.

What kind of logic is that? Here's hoping she's better at finding her next sugar daddy than critical thinking.
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Guido Van Horn
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One thing that has been perplexing me is this ladies name. Is her first name really V.? Did she legally change it? Was she born with that name? Is everyone just collectively refusing to look into what the V. stands for?
 
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Josh
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The guy has a box of benjamins to dry his tears.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
One thing that has been perplexing me is this ladies name. Is her first name really V.? Did she legally change it? Was she born with that name? Is everyone just collectively refusing to look into what the V. stands for?
You find that perplexing about her? I find her loom far more perplexing, just what planet does she come from?
 
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Guido Van Horn
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perfalbion wrote:
So he believes in segregation and has even been found to have systematically discriminated when renting property he owns, plus he says racist things repeatedly, but he isn't a racist because he was raised that way.

What kind of logic is that? Here's hoping she's better at finding her next sugar daddy than critical thinking.


Not to defend the alleged events, but he was never found to have systematically discriminated when renting property. He was accused of such things and settled the lawsuit without admitting guilt. But yeah...He parted with a large sum of money due to allegations of racial discrimination.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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slatersteven wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
One thing that has been perplexing me is this ladies name. Is her first name really V.? Did she legally change it? Was she born with that name? Is everyone just collectively refusing to look into what the V. stands for?
You find that perplexing about her? I find her loom far more perplexing, just what planet does she come from?


Plastic surgery and expensive extensions explain her look...her name needs explanation.
 
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
One thing that has been perplexing me is this ladies name. Is her first name really V.? Did she legally change it? Was she born with that name? Is everyone just collectively refusing to look into what the V. stands for?

She legally changed it a few years ago. She was born Maria Vanessa Perez.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
So he believes in segregation and has even been found to have systematically discriminated when renting property he owns, plus he says racist things repeatedly, but he isn't a racist because he was raised that way.

What kind of logic is that? Here's hoping she's better at finding her next sugar daddy than critical thinking.


Not to defend the alleged events, but he was never found to have systematically discriminated when renting property. He was accused of such things and settled the lawsuit without admitting guilt. But yeah...He parted with a large sum of money due to allegations of racial discrimination.
I have always hated that, I was not found guilty, I just paid people off.
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Guido Van Horn
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damiangerous wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
One thing that has been perplexing me is this ladies name. Is her first name really V.? Did she legally change it? Was she born with that name? Is everyone just collectively refusing to look into what the V. stands for?

She legally changed it a few years ago. She was born Maria Vanessa Perez.


Thanks...I'm still a little confused on the choice of V. but c'est la vie.
 
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Not to defend the alleged events, but he was never found to have systematically discriminated when renting property. He was accused of such things and settled the lawsuit without admitting guilt. But yeah...He parted with a large sum of money due to allegations of racial discrimination.


Having lived in LA as that case was moving along, I got to read lots of news reports on the subject. He was very much dead-to-rights and the settlement was a matter of expediency for both he and the government. Was there a legal finding of fact? No. But if you dug through the reports, there would have been.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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slatersteven wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
So he believes in segregation and has even been found to have systematically discriminated when renting property he owns, plus he says racist things repeatedly, but he isn't a racist because he was raised that way.

What kind of logic is that? Here's hoping she's better at finding her next sugar daddy than critical thinking.


Not to defend the alleged events, but he was never found to have systematically discriminated when renting property. He was accused of such things and settled the lawsuit without admitting guilt. But yeah...He parted with a large sum of money due to allegations of racial discrimination.
I have always hated that, I was not found guilty, I just paid people off.


Yea, It always feels a little scuzzy.
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Guido Van Horn
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perfalbion wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Not to defend the alleged events, but he was never found to have systematically discriminated when renting property. He was accused of such things and settled the lawsuit without admitting guilt. But yeah...He parted with a large sum of money due to allegations of racial discrimination.


Having lived in LA as that case was moving along, I got to read lots of news reports on the subject. He was very much dead-to-rights and the settlement was a matter of expediency for both he and the government. Was there a legal finding of fact? No. But if you dug through the reports, there would have been.


I don't understand why the government would allow a non-admission of guilt in something like this, unless they weren't confident they could make it stick. Is it really in the government's best interest to just let it go?

One of the interesting points that Ms. Stiviano's comments about segregation make me wonder about is that one of the allegations is one of the reasons Sterling didn't want to rent to blacks and hispanics was because he preferrred to rent to Koreans in Koreatown. Was he letting segregationist attitudes prefer one race over another within physical boundaries. If he owned property in Compton would he refuse to rent to Koreans?
 
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Ken
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
I don't understand why the government would allow a non-admission of guilt in something like this, unless they weren't confident they could make it stick. Is it really in the government's best interest to just let it go?


The case would have cost a great deal to litigate, the charges were civil and not criminal, and altering the behavior was the point. Why wouldn't you settle for a large sum?

Quote:
...he preferrred to rent to Koreans in Koreatown.


Why on earth should this matter at all? Presented with a qualified renter that meets all of the criteria for renting (credit history, security deposit, employment), he refused to rent to them because the color of their skin wasn't "right." That's not justifiable, period.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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perfalbion wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
I don't understand why the government would allow a non-admission of guilt in something like this, unless they weren't confident they could make it stick. Is it really in the government's best interest to just let it go?


The case would have cost a great deal to litigate, the charges were civil and not criminal, and altering the behavior was the point. Why wouldn't you settle for a large sum?

Quote:
...he preferrred to rent to Koreans in Koreatown.


Why on earth should this matter at all? Presented with a qualified renter that meets all of the criteria for renting (credit history, security deposit, employment), he refused to rent to them because the color of their skin wasn't "right." That's not justifiable, period.


It shouldn't matter...I just thought it was an interesting potential insight of the twisted mind that is Donald Sterling.

Also, now knowing that she changed her name to avoid racial implications of her birth name there is an interesting subtext to the original conversation.
 
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Ken
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
It shouldn't matter...I just thought it was an interesting potential insight of the twisted mind that is Donald Sterling.


Your curiosity quotient is higher than mine. Short of him participating in a scientific study on the psychology of racism, I don't care for the insight.

Quote:
Also, now knowing that she changed her name to avoid racial implications of her birth name there is an interesting subtext to the original conversation.


If you say so.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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perfalbion wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
It shouldn't matter...I just thought it was an interesting potential insight of the twisted mind that is Donald Sterling.


Your curiosity quotient is higher than mine. Short of him participating in a scientific study on the psychology of racism, I don't care for the insight.

Quote:
Also, now knowing that she changed her name to avoid racial implications of her birth name there is an interesting subtext to the original conversation.


If you say so.


I know, burn the mother down, ask no questions, it feels better that way.
 
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
I know, burn the mother down, ask no questions, it feels better that way.


Thank you for ascribing a motive to me. Should I similarly ascribe one to you?

What bollocks.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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perfalbion wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
I know, burn the mother down, ask no questions, it feels better that way.


Thank you for ascribing a motive to me. Should I similarly ascribe one to you?

What bollocks.


I don't see any other point to your comment.

I didn't say so, she said so in her petition to change her name...maybe you didn't read it, so maybe you didn't understand.

Also, the fact that you aren't curious isn't a reason to come in and crap on my curiosity.

Really, you hang out on a forum that discusses the world but seem uninterested in actually delving into the issue. We know, you hate Donald Sterling, he is an irredeemable racist you aren't shy about stating that, but why would you discourage through your attitude the examination of the issue?
 
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
I don't see any other point to your comment.


The fact that you find it interesting means neither that others should nor that those that don't fit within your caricature of them.

Quote:
I didn't say so, she said so in her petition to change her name...maybe you didn't read it, so maybe you didn't understand.


People change their name for many reasons. Living in the LA area, it is entirely possible that she intended to pursue an acting career, for example, and ethnic names are sometimes viewed as problematic for casting. The reason she provided was that she was a product of a rape and had encountered racism as a result of her name in the past that she hoped to mitigate or avoid.

Quote:
Also, the fact that you aren't curious isn't a reason to come in and crap on my curiosity.


I don't believe I did. I stated that you had more of it than I in this case. I further stated that I don't care to know more about his thought process unless it somehow contributed meaningfully to understanding racism better. And I didn't say you were a bad person because you thought differently than I.

Quote:
Really, you hang out on a forum that discusses the world but seem uninterested in actually delving into the issue. We know, you hate Donald Sterling, he is an irredeemable racist you aren't shy about stating that, but why would you discourage through your attitude the examination of the issue?


You really are in to spewing shit, now. I lived in the LA area for nearly 19 years and got to see lots of news reports and read many stories about this man. Just about none of them were positive, nearly all of them involved racist statements. I don't hate him - I hate very few people, if any. I think he's a horrible representative for the NBA, a terrible owner who had his team wallowing in mediocrity when they easily had the funding available to be a really good team, and a person with views on race I find abhorrent. He's also immensely successful and I don't begrudge him that at all. I just wouldn't want to have a beer with him and wouldn't do business with him (I went to numerous Lakers games while in LA and never attended a Clippers game).

As to the "examination of the issue," if I were to ascribe a motive to your posts (as you did mine) it would be that they consistently appear to attempt to excuse his racism or diminish the possible impact of it. I suspect that is not what you intend - you strike me as the type of person that would say so straight out if that's what you thought. However, there is a degree of sympathy implied that a more radical individual than myself might jump all over (and, if memory serves, some may have in other threads).

If you'd like to continue reading more in to my posts than is there, be my guest. Just don't be surprised when you get push-back. I don't recall ever saying to you that you were making excuses for a racist, perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to do something similar.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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I think people are complex creatures. That interests me. When the collective mob jumps all over someone, my first reaction is usually to stop and look at what is going on, and look at all sides of an issue. I'm well aware that people don't understand my motives, and I've decided it doesn't bother me.

I think I've been clear on numerous occasions that I think he is indeed a racist. But I don't think being a racist in thought and in private conversations is as horrible offense as this story has blown up into. Troubling, but I've come to peace that there are billions of people who don't share my viewpoint in many things, as such,actual actions that effect other people in a tangible way are what I get bothered by. Hurt feelings don't matter much to me, especially hurt feelings from eavesdropping on a private conversation.

Racial discrimination in housing bothers me, it is a much bigger deal to me than anything in this story. However the federal government was appeased to not pursue it and additional complaints have ceased to pour in, as you stated the action to create change in behavior and it appears that it changed. There's also a tinge of realizing that those in real estate are going to deal with disgruntled tenants and that lawsuits are going to happen.

So when I look at the most cited displays of his racist actions I see two settled lawsuits with no guilt assigned, one wrongful termination lawsuit that he won in the court of law, and a handful of comments over the last 30+ years. Even Baron Davis who has an actual axe to grind can't come up with something better than "he called me a bastard and heckled me in lay-in lines." Which is its own brand of dumb, but not necessarily racist.

On the other hand, He had a black GM (WHO WAS TERRIBLE AT HIS JOB) for 22 years and had a black girlfriend.

He's an old curmudgeon from a bygone era. His interaction with the world, his psyche, and his relationship with his wife and V. Stiviano is utterly fascinating.

For the most part he's suppressed racist urges over the last 30+ years of being in the public eye. Coupled with the new statements from V. Stiviano that "he isn't a racist" there is something going on that I don't think the rest of the world sees or understands. I think that is worthy of discussion.

In response, your tone was dismissive, and I didn't think you thought I was a bad person, just that your comments came across as crapping on my curiosity for no real reason.
 
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Thanks...I'm still a little confused on the choice of V. but c'est la vie.

V for Vendetta, obviously.
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