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Subject: One mouse per player? rss

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Richard Ham
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Finally got a copy of the game, started to read the rules, and was gutted to find that the game requires that players control multiple avatars. This is something that my wife and I generally prefer not to do, as we lose a lot of the sense of connection with our character and end up feeling like a general ordering troops around, rather than an adventurer there in the world.

Does anyone know if there's any good balancing tips & tricks to make the game work with only 2 player mice? Or is that crazy talk?
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1100912/can-this-be-play...
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Richard Ham
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Roolz wrote:


Thanks for the directions, though I didn't like what I found there!
 
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Casper Rysgaard
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I would say that you can not shorten the amount mice, since the difficulty is set after that. When we only are two people we divide the mice and play two each.
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rahdo wrote:
Finally got a copy of the game, started to read the rules, and was gutted to find that the game requires that players control multiple avatars. This is something that my wife and I generally prefer not to do, as we lose a lot of the sense of connection with our character and end up feeling like a general ordering troops around, rather than an adventurer there in the world.

Does anyone know if there's any good balancing tips & tricks to make the game work with only 2 player mice? Or is that crazy talk?


I didn't know that either, and I had just started looking into getting a copy.

I hate controlling more that one character in this type of game. Like you say, it ruins the connection between player and character.

Guess this one's not for me...
 
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Jacq L
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I would suggest giving it a try (perhaps borrow it, if you can, RedMonkeyBoy). I generally dislike playing multiple characters in games like this too, and held off buying it for a long time because of that aspect.

However, I'm glad I picked it up. My partner and I play with 2 mice each and don't find it difficult or detrimental at all. I still find I identify well with both Filch and Nez. Maybe because their personalities are so well defined in the story chapters is why I don't find it too frustrating. The amount of options per character are also fairly limited. It's not the same kind of experience as something like Pathfinder, so I think it's worth giving it a shot (if able)
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Kevin Outlaw
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Jacqland wrote:
I would suggest giving it a try (perhaps borrow it, if you can, RedMonkeyBoy). I generally dislike playing multiple characters in games like this too, and held off buying it for a long time because of that aspect.

However, I'm glad I picked it up. My partner and I play with 2 mice each and don't find it difficult or detrimental at all. I still find I identify well with both Filch and Nez. Maybe because their personalities are so well defined in the story chapters is why I don't find it too frustrating. The amount of options per character are also fairly limited. It's not the same kind of experience as something like Pathfinder, so I think it's worth giving it a shot (if able)


Thanks.

Unfortunately, I live in the butt-end of nowhere. There are no game stores to try things out, and I only have a small gaming group (for which I buy almost all the games).

Difficulty isn't really a concern, but immersion is.

My daughter turns four at the end of the year, and I was thinking it might be something cool to play with her more than anything. Maybe I will argue myself into it. I do that a lot.
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Michael S
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oh nooooo. I completely agree with you though I prefer to only have my one character to control as well. I really hope you two try and make it through at least a few chapters because the story really is great and you get attached to your little characters.
 
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Ken Marley
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Rahdo,

The thing about Mice and Mystics is that it is a story about 6 mice not 2. Not all Mice will be used in every chapter, but all Mice are used at some point.

My daughter and I love the story, it is very easy to pick certain Mice as your Mice. For example my daughter often picks Nez, Lilly, and Tilda, and I get Filch, Colin, and Maginos. We will often rotate through the Mice depending on her whims.

Mice and Mystics is not a RPG where you decide the story. The story is the same for every group, but the story is much richer then in many games like Descent and Pathfinder.
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Michael Bishop
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I've only played through (but not won) Chapter 4. So far, it seems you can pick a "favorite" and be able to usually use that mouse, but you're ultimately controlling at least 2 if you're playing with only 2 people.

Chapter 1 - You have to pick 2 each and can't use Lily.
Chapter 2 - You have to pick 2 each and MUST use Lily.
Chapter 3 - You have to pick 2 each and MUST use Maginos.
Chapter 4 - You have to pick 3 each and every mouse is used.

In each chapter (so far), you have the opportunity to choose your favorite, unless it happens to be Lily. In that case, Chapter 1 is the only time you can't use her.

I won't read ahead to spoil things for myself!

I don't think you'll feel like you're a general ordering troops around. The game is not played on a large scale and each mouse is unique. They have differing "stats" and unique abilities that make them stand out from the others.

The story is played out on a small enough scale and the objective for each chapter is clear enough that you don't feel like it's your army versus theirs. There are story bits where the personality of each mouse stands out. I highly recommend you try the first chapter and see what you think. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Controlling multiple mice won't make you feel like you've lost something in the crowd. The intimate setting avoids that.
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Jon Reed
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rahdo wrote:
This is something that my wife and I generally prefer not to do, as we lose a lot of the sense of connection with our character and end up feeling like a general ordering troops around, rather than an adventurer there in the world.

RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I hate controlling more that one character in this type of game. Like you say, it ruins the connection between player and character.


I admit I used to feel this way too, but then I changed my approach when I realized something. Remember the video games Diablo 2, Dungeon Siege, Darkstone, and Baldur's Gate? In those games, you are essentially one character running around with a companion or more. When playing those, you don't lose your connection with your main character (at least I didn't). At first I thought it was because of the way the game controlled most of the fiddlyness for your companion(s) but soon I realized it was just how I approached the game. Now when I come across a game like Mice & Mystics or Darkest Night, I just treat one character as my main and the other as my buddy. No loss of connection since. It won't work for everyone but sometimes a simple attitude/approach change is all it takes to fix something.
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Kevin Outlaw
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The other issue is my game group is size three. Does that mean in some games one person gets two mice while the rest get one?
 
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Casper Rysgaard
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
The other issue is my game group is size three. Does that mean in some games one person gets two mice while the rest get one?


Yes, unfortuanly
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casp3365 wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
The other issue is my game group is size three. Does that mean in some games one person gets two mice while the rest get one?


Yes, unfortuanly


Unless you feel like giving the enemy controls to the third player
 
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Ken Marley
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
The other issue is my game group is size three. Does that mean in some games one person gets two mice while the rest get one?


I actually think 3 is a great size for Mice and Mystics since each player can get 2 mice each. In two chapters you use all 6 mice.

 
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Jerry Hawthorne
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Also, you know the extra mice can be controlled by the group without them being the attached to a specific player, so if you had three players they could decide mutually what the fourth mouse does on its turn.

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Casper Rysgaard
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nobeerblues wrote:
Also, you know the extra mice can be controlled by the group without them being the attached to a specific player, so if you had three players they could decide mutually what the fourth mouse does on its turn.


In my group we are two (me and my sister). We devide the mice between us, but we still both controls all mice
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Christian Gindlesperger
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Hey radho--

I really hope you and Jen can find a way to make M&M work, because I'm really interested to see what you think of it.

I just got M&M myself (after seeing a lot of positive reviews of it as a solo experience). So far (haven't finished it yet), I think I concur. As a game, it doesn't offer a ton of strategic depth, but as an interactive fictional experience, I can't think of anything else that does what it does.

The game's general reviews appear to be quite polarized, and I think it's because the heart of the game is not in the mechanics, but the story.

It's engaging in exactly the way you'd want an epic fantasy adventure to be. You get invested in the actions you take in the game part--meeting objectives, fighting baddies, saving fallen comrades--not because of the puzzles or intricate mechanics, but because you get sucked into what will happen next to this brave little band on murine adventurers.

You want to see if Prince Colin the mouse can somehow restore peace to the kingdom, or if Maginor has any tricks up his sleeves to return the party to their former selves, or if Filch is going to be a team player or a dirty rat (ha!). All the moving and fighting and searching is really just a means to that end.

As far as the gameplay requireing multiple mice for less than 4 (or 6) playersg: personally, I'm quite used to playing solitaire with multiple characters--and while I would have to be feeling quite ambitious (and a little crazy) to try controlling 4 players in Descent--playing 4 mice in this game is not at all hard to manage.

And because the story gives you enough to flesh out the characters, it doesn't feel disorienting to me that you're controlling more than one. It's easy to slip into acting each individual hero's part, in a way I almost never find myself doing in Descent ("Who am I again? Reynhart the Who? Worthy? ...of what?)

All that said, I think it's very likely that M&M is not going to be a keeper for you and Jen. The complexity seems limited (it sounds like the game's most successful and likely intended audience is really kids and teenagers playing this kind of game for the first time [which, it should be said, is a wonderful thing]).

And even if you guys can get past the character juggling, and get into the narrative, it seems that the story does run out eventually, so I have some concerns about the long-term replayability. But I'm reserving judgement on that until I make it through the whole story.

Anyway, I do hope to see a runthrough, even if it's not your cup of tea. Heck, it's not Myth, at least...

And, when discussing Mice and Mystics, it's always worth mentioning game reviewer Matt Thrower's great piece on his experience with it (it's pretty much why I bought the game): http://www.nohighscores.com/2013/05/24/mice-and-mystics-revi...
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William Giant
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The "it's two-player if you each control two-players" really turned me off Sentinels of the Multiverse. However, in Mice and Mystics I don't mind it at all. Like someone above, I also love both Filch and Nez, and my wife loves Lily and Meeps, I mean Maginos.

Playing a couple of characters just adds to the story for us, especially because it lets us have more than one roll in the story without bogging down the game play. In SotM playing two characters is a serious chore. In M&M I think it's a joy.

I think the key is M&M having a simple game system, once you learn it, really emphasizing role-playing. It's easy to keep track of what each character is doing, things are laid out well so we can look forward to what we'll be doing next, and their's not a whole lot of things to keep track of from turn-to-turn. So, this means when I'm playing Nez I can pretty well jump straight into the character, crack some skulls, giggle, and move on without feeling totally separated. I might be more engaged when playing Filch, but I'll still swear when a roach bites Nez.
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zmapenguin wrote:
really emphasizing role-playing


See, that makes no sense to me. If I am roleplaying, I should be a role - one role - not a bunch of people. Unless I am roleplaying someone with multiple personality disorder.

I mean, controlling a squad in Space Hulk is fine. They have no real personality, and I imagine I am the commander back at HQ giving directions on a holo-screen. In Claustrophobia I do not mind, because the characters are totally generic and it is a game about tactical positioning that would lose a lot if you didn't have a team to command.

M&M actively wants you to get involved in a story and relate to the characters, and then creates a barrier to entry (for me).

Different strokes, but this one won't fly (scuttle?) for me, which I confirmed by watching the excellent Watch It Played series. Never mind. Plenty more games to play.

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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
zmapenguin wrote:
really emphasizing role-playing


See, that makes no sense to me. If I am roleplaying, I should be a role - one role - not a bunch of people. Unless I am roleplaying someone with multiple personality disorder.

I mean, controlling a squad in Space Hulk is fine. They have no real personality, and I imagine I am the commander back at HQ giving directions on a holo-screen. In Claustrophobia I do not mind, because the characters are totally generic and it is a game about tactical positioning that would lose a lot if you didn't have a team to command.

M&M actively wants you to get involved in a story and relate to the characters, and then creates a barrier to entry (for me).

Different strokes, but this one won't fly (scuttle?) for me, which I confirmed by watching the excellent Watch It Played series. Never mind. Plenty more games to play.



Its not Role playing its storygaming. And in Storygaming players can indeed end up handling more than one character as the story progresses, or even loose and pick up characters.

Basically dont approach M&M as an RPG, it just doesnt work. Approach it as playing out a storybook or movie that focuses on a group of characters rather than one or two individuals.

Though I've been thinking of a system whereby the extra characters could be handled by the game as NPCs as it were. But you still have the problem that the story requires certain characters for certain chapters.
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Bart R.
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My son loves playing Lily while I prefer Nez and we consider those to be our 'mains' while the two other characters are sidekicks - if my wife or daughter want to join in, they'll play with whoever is on the team besides Lily and Nez.

That being said, we still have a strong attachment to those other mice. Even if they are not in the team, they are not some random character you meet in an inn - the whole story is based around that group of mice and we get a lot of attachment from that.
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Jerry Hawthorne
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
zmapenguin wrote:
really emphasizing role-playing


See, that makes no sense to me. If I am roleplaying, I should be a role - one role - not a bunch of people. Unless I am roleplaying someone with multiple personality disorder.

I mean, controlling a squad in Space Hulk is fine. They have no real personality, and I imagine I am the commander back at HQ giving directions on a holo-screen. In Claustrophobia I do not mind, because the characters are totally generic and it is a game about tactical positioning that would lose a lot if you didn't have a team to command.

M&M actively wants you to get involved in a story and relate to the characters, and then creates a barrier to entry (for me).

Different strokes, but this one won't fly (scuttle?) for me, which I confirmed by watching the excellent Watch It Played series. Never mind. Plenty more games to play.

If you do not think this game will work for you, please do not buy it. But I do want to point out that as excellent as Rodney's video is, it does not show the story hardly at all. If it did fully show the story as it relates to the game, you might have at least a better understanding of why the game is structured the way it is.
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nobeerblues wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
zmapenguin wrote:
really emphasizing role-playing


See, that makes no sense to me. If I am roleplaying, I should be a role - one role - not a bunch of people. Unless I am roleplaying someone with multiple personality disorder.

I mean, controlling a squad in Space Hulk is fine. They have no real personality, and I imagine I am the commander back at HQ giving directions on a holo-screen. In Claustrophobia I do not mind, because the characters are totally generic and it is a game about tactical positioning that would lose a lot if you didn't have a team to command.

M&M actively wants you to get involved in a story and relate to the characters, and then creates a barrier to entry (for me).

Different strokes, but this one won't fly (scuttle?) for me, which I confirmed by watching the excellent Watch It Played series. Never mind. Plenty more games to play.

If you do not think this game will work for you, please do not buy it. But I do want to point out that as excellent as Rodney's video is, it does not show the story hardly at all. If it did fully show the story as it relates to the game, you might have at least a better understanding of why the game is structured the way it is.


Please do not take it as an insult - different games are for different people - but I know this game is not going to work for me and my group. If I am storygaming, then I want to be creating the story (Once Upon a Time), not moving characters around in a pre-set story. If I am roleplaying, I want to play one role in a story someone else has devised, so I can watch my avatar grow within that story framework.

This game isn't going to fulfil either of those criteria for me. That doesn't make it a bad game. It just makes it one I will have to pass on.
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Jerry Hawthorne
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Oh no insult taken at all! I like to hear what people enjoy, and what they don't.
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